Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Liberals

[Said1]

Re: RE: Why you hate the Cons

The Alberta situation is different than the Manitoba flood, Said. The Alberta floods came fast and went away fast. Here in Manitoba it was like we were under seige for months. Flying into Winnipeg was like flying over a completely foreign landscape. There was nothing but water as far as you see.

Neither of those compare to the ice storm. Flooding is nasty and inconvenient, but it's nothing like having no power or heat in January. The ice storm is more like some big blizzards we've had here because of the way it shuts everything down, but much more serious.

That was the impression I had from footage on television. People being picked up on the roofs of their homes and such. I was mainly a little irked at Blue's comparison to both the flooding in Manitoba and the Ice storm - not even close. If I had a scanner, I'd post some of the photos we took. Neat to look at now, scary at the time. I was convinced I was going to pop from all the stress!

Blue's claim that Alberta didn't go to the feds for money contradicts what Ralph Klein said on TV a few days ago when the second round of flooding was happening. I don't know if Klein changed his mind or not, but he did say, in front of the TV cameras, that Alberta would be seeking federal money.

I haven't seen this, but there is nothing wrong with asking for outside help, especially in rural areas.

I

 

[no1important]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Don't underestimate the common sense of the Canadian public. These two issues may ignite the biggest backlash seen since Mulroney was turfed, and the Libs and NDP would be wise to remember that lesson in history.

I don't underestimate them at all, Blue. The NDP budget amendment is popular with Canadians. That's why the Bloc was willing to swing a deal to get it voted on last night and why the Liberals keep trying to claim it as their own.

Actually this was discussed on Newsworld this morning and it was mentioned the NDP 4.6 billion add on to the budget was quite popular in Quebec.

Which begs me to ask why didn't the Bloc support it? Maybe they wanted an election, I dunno.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Why you hate the Cons

The Bloc not supporting it is looking a lot like a political mis-step. Duceppe hasn't made many of those since the hair-net incident. I don't think it will hurt them in long run, but they got a little carried away with bringing down the government and forgot to represent the best interests of their constituents.

Swinging the deal to have the vote last night allowed them to eat their cake and have it too. They can now be seen as having allowed the bill to pass even while they voted against it. Not a bad political compromise for them.

What's going to hurt the Conservatives more than losing the vote is their reaction. They came across as petulant and mean-spirited again. That seems to happen to them every time they try to appear morally outraged.

 

[no1important]

RE: Why you hate the Cons

The way the Conservatives are acting over this, looks so funny. Man some of their comments are totally hilarious. Now they are even bad mouthing the Bloc....incredable. Everything is a conspiracy to them.

If they were in power they would of done the same, yet maybe not, as they don't seem to have as good strategist's like the Libs.

The other funny thing is when they were waiting for the shuttle bus's and no Liberals to be seen, why did they not go back to the house, instead of standing around? Amazing they were so clueless and they want to be the government?

 

[LeftCoast]

RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

The Conservatives aren't going to say it, but the Liberals just let them off the hook.

1. Their polling numbers are not very good, and I would imagine that low voter turnout in a summer election would not help their cause. The only one who might get some relief out of a summer election is Stephen Harper because it would take the focus off of his poor leadership for a few weeks. His party is about to cut it's own head off.

2. If they did defeat the government, the money allocated to the Atlantic provinces through the Atlantic Accord would die in the Senate. This alone would have probably caused Torries from Newfoundland to support the government.

Their cries of a Liberal - NDP - Bloc alliance also ring hollow. The Bloc voted against the budget amendment.

Harpo also fails to mention that when the PCs were in power they invoked closure numerous times - you can do that with a majority.

 

[BlueCrusader]

Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about

The Conservatives aren't going to say it, but the Liberals just let them off the hook.

1. Their polling numbers are not very good, and I would imagine that low voter turnout in a summer election would not help their cause. The only one who might get some relief out of a summer election is Stephen Harper because it would take the focus off of his poor leadership for a few weeks. His party is about to cut it's own head off.

Heh, polls, polls, polls. Weren't they those so called "election-result fortune tellers" that never work for federal elections?

 

[BlueCrusader]

Re: RE: Why you hate the Cons

The way the Conservatives are acting over this, looks so funny. Man some of their comments are totally hilarious. Now they are even bad mouthing the Bloc....incredable. Everything is a conspiracy to them.

If they were in power they would of done the same, yet maybe not, as they don't seem to have as good strategist's like the Libs.

The other funny thing is when they were waiting for the shuttle bus's and no Liberals to be seen, why did they not go back to the house, instead of standing around? Amazing they were so clueless and they want to be the government?

Let's remember that the Conservatives are standing up for their individuality. By bad mouthing the block, they are distancing themselves from the separatists. Now the Liberals face attacks of being BOTH socialist AND separatist. This is not what the majority of Liberal-voters wanted (definately not my dad, mom, unlces, grand parents, friends, etc.). Also, let's not expect the COnservatives to have spies around parliament hill to spot out every single suspicious movement of the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc. Rmember that the Liberals were being very sneaky; if the Conservatives had been sneaky, the Liberals wouldn't have suspecting a thing either.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Heh, polls, polls, polls. Weren't they those so called "election-result fortune tellers" that never work for federal elections?

Actually the final polls for the last election weren't that far off from the popular vote at all, it was just that they couldn't be released because of election laws.

The polls before that showed things trending in that direction too. The bif turn around came with the stupid accusation that Paul Martin supported Kiddy Porn. Everybody knew it wasn't true. It came across as mean-spirited and desperate and things started to turn. Harper could have saved it by apologizing, but he didn't.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Why you hate the Cons

That is so lame, the CPC have not ever handled a social policy, they have not been in government.

That kind of speaks volumes. Social policy is simply not a priority for Conservatives.

Ya it is...its stop taxing us to death...quite the policy if you think about it....

Speaks volumes about the left....

 

[Cosmo]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

I have a feeling I'm walking into a mine field here but here goes. After going through the posts many people are exteremly anti-conservative and yet they are more then happy to let the existing government get away with scandal after scandal, what is so bad about the conservatives that we allow the ruling party to get away with this? Is it that our electoral system is so messed up, lacking equal representation and allowing a party to call an election anytime they are high in the polls (or wish to boast their rating by spending money), or is it that fear mongering has become such an effective weapon that we dare not change things? So lets discuss.

Back to your original post, Colin ... I can only speak for myself, but it's not about hating Conservatives for me. At least not on a personal level. I make an effort to draw conclusions about individuals on a one-by-one basis. If a person behaves in a manner that earns my respect, they get it. Politics don't enter into it.

I do dislike, even at times hate, the Conservative party's politics. Again, I view it from a personal perspective rather than from the wider view that many people here bother to develop. I just know that the policies of that government damage me personally. You probably know, as I've stated, I'm a radical feminist dyke. Not too many of us join the Conservatives. I find their policies misogynistic and homophobic. Neither fly with me, for obvious reasons.

As for issues outside of human rights, I honestly feel like every political party has its flaws. I do not understand economics well enough to make any informed comment, but it seems to me that each party takes with one hand and gives with the other. Because the left leaning parties tend to give more to humanist endeavours, I align myself with them. Because they (the left) not only speaks of tolerance but legislates toward it, I support them. I am not a typical hetero christian and, as such, am a person non grata to the Conservatives.

If I am wrong, let me know. Show me some proof. Educate me. I am not narrow minded, but I don't live under a rock somewhere that I haven't been affected by politics.

 

[BlueCrusader]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Hey, didja hear the good news? Bill C-48, the NDP budget amendment, passed tonight. You know what that means? It means that the money that Canadians pay in taxes will go to help Canadians instead of multi-national corporations.

The SSM marriage bill, C-38 will be passing shortly. Parliament will sit until it goes through. You know what means? Equal rights for gays and lesbians who choose to get married.

You know what it means all taken together? That Harper and his Conservatives are about done. They've lost all credibility in their claim to be an effective opposition, or even competent.

1) On Bill C-48: We get more taxes, and the tax money is spent on Canadians, yes. I will RESPECTFULLY agree with that. Yet, let's take a look at what happens in this cycle. We pay taxes, it's spent. We pay taxes, it's spent. We pay taxes, it's spent. No new money is coming into Canada, and that means little can be improved. If we invest on businesses, the economy will grow, and that means more money will come in Canada. That means there is an abundace of money for healthcare, education, care for seniors, etc., things that matter to you most.

2) On Bill C-38: I will RESPECTFULLY disagree with you. We MUST respect Canadians who are enjoying TRADITION marriage, and also protect homosexuals (notice that I am an open Conservative; I believe in compromise to protect all Canadians). Let's protect traditional marriage so that the Canadians (and believe me, there are a lot) who what to keep traditional marriage will be respected. We can't jepardize one group fore another. To protect homosexuals, we will create a civil union so that they can be officially joined. Some complain, "But that make homosexuals sub-human to heterosexuals." I disagree with that. By creating civil unions, we are taking the COURAGE AND LEADERSHIP to heave forward and create a new tradition for homosexuals that will grow for years to come. This is real leadership. This is protecting both groups.

3) The Conservatives are at new heights. Every since the Brian Mulroney disaster (thank God he's gone), the Tories have been pretty weak. But now, the Conservatives are coming together and growing strong again. Why are we closing the door on Harper, and saying he's an ineffective opposition when they've "only just begun"? Let's face forward and be optimistic.

On a side note, I don't understand why people are calling Harper "scary." It's exactly the same as making fun of Jean Chritien's "crooked mouth" which is absolutely ridiculous. Harper is taking the time and effort to change his appearance so that he can show his brighter and more humourous side. Afterall, that's what people want right? People criticised him for being too scary. And now he's acting on it.

These are my... 10 cents.
Cheers from a 15 yr old Conservative who respects the opinions of others.

 

[Jay]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

"(notice that I am an open Conservative; I believe in compromise to protect all Canadians)."

I tried to explain that too...it doesn’t work...compromise is only something conservatives have to do.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

1) On Bill C-48: We get more taxes, and the tax money is spent on Canadians, yes. I will RESPECTFULLY agree with that. Yet, let's take a look at what happens in this cycle. We pay taxes, it's spent. We pay taxes, it's spent. We pay taxes, it's spent. No new money is coming into Canada, and that means little can be improved. If we invest on businesses, the economy will grow, and that means more money will come in Canada. That means there is an abundace of money for healthcare, education, care for seniors, etc., things that matter to you most.

You realize that we already have lower corporate taxes than most developed countries? That includes the US, our closest competitor. We also have the strongest economy in the G-8...that pretty much puts us on top of the world.

New money is coming into Canada because our economy is expanding. It is bloody well time, after years of cuts and austerity, that we got some of that back.

2) On Bill C-38: I will RESPECTFULLY disagree with you. We MUST respect Canadians who are enjoying TRADITION marriage, and also protect homosexuals (notice that I am an open Conservative; I believe in compromise to protect all Canadians). Let's protect traditional marriage so that the Canadians (and believe me, there are a lot) who what to keep traditional marriage will be respected. We can't jepardize one group fore another. To protect homosexuals, we will create a civil union so that they can be officially joined. Some complain, "But that make homosexuals sub-human to heterosexuals." I disagree with that. By creating civil unions, we are taking the COURAGE AND LEADERSHIP to heave forward and create a new tradition for homosexuals that will grow for years to come. This is real leadership. This is protecting both groups.

Allowing same sex marriage does nothing to diminish traditional marriage. I am just as married to my wife as I ever was. So are religious people who went through church marriages. I doubt that Martin's decision to put this through has anything to do with courage and leadership because everything he does has to do with political expediency, but those who forced that expediency on him have shown great leadership and courage. When we choose to make others less than us, even through mere semantics, because they happen to be different, it has the end result of us less than them.

3) The Conservatives are at new heights. Every since the Brian Mulroney disaster (thank God he's gone), the Tories have been pretty weak. But now, the Conservatives are coming together and growing strong again. Why are we closing the door on Harper, and saying he's an ineffective opposition when they've "only just begun"? Let's face forward and be optimistic.

Most polls are pointing to Harper having less support than the Alliance alone enjoyed. That makes him less popular than Stockwell "Doris" Day. He certainly has less support than the combination of the Alliance and Conservatives had before the merger.

The party that would like to be growing, and should be growing considering the Liberals have been in power forever and have suffered from major scandal, is actually shrinking. That points to a lack of leadership and a disconnect with the wants and needs of the Canadian people.

On a side note, I don't understand why people are calling Harper "scary." It's exactly the same as making fun of Jean Chritien's "crooked mouth" which is absolutely ridiculous. Harper is taking the time and effort to change his appearance so that he can show his brighter and more humourous side. Afterall, that's what people want right? People criticised him for being too scary. And now he's acting on it.

A large part of Harper's scariness are his continued attempts to deny what his party stands for....that old hidden agenda. His public attempts to be changing his appearance do not alleviate those fears. Instead they tend to exacerbate them.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

I hate to see things disappear down the memory hole, so I thought I'd revive this thought,

You know the best thing? Being in Alberta, we really don't care about your money, we don't need it. Even with our floods this past few weeks, we have gone out on our own, have not been like Ontario and Manitoba and whined to the feds that we need the army or money to fix things. We just did them ourselves. Just like we always did and just like we always will, NOTWITHSTANDING how the rest of Canada perceives us.

It turns out that federal money will be heavily involved. The official request was made this morning, but obviously talks have been underway days.

 

[Said1]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

I hate to see things disappear down the memory hole, so I thought I'd revive this thought,

You know the best thing? Being in Alberta, we really don't care about your money, we don't need it. Even with our floods this past few weeks, we have gone out on our own, have not been like Ontario and Manitoba and whined to the feds that we need the army or money to fix things. We just did them ourselves. Just like we always did and just like we always will, NOTWITHSTANDING how the rest of Canada perceives us.

It turns out that federal money will be heavily involved. The official request was made this morning, but obviously talks have been underway days.

That still pisses me off. Crow time. :twisted:

 

[PoisonPete2]

RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Mulrooney is corrupt.

 

[peapod]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Bluealberta wrote that post right after the rev told him that Bill C-48 the NDP budget amendent had just passed. A kick in the stomach for him, his post was a knee jerk reaction to a bitter disappointment. I would let it slide if you can, I am sure he will be posting more than enough to upset lots of people

 

[BlueCrusader]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Allowing same sex marriage does nothing to diminish traditional marriage. I am just as married to my wife as I ever was. So are religious people who went through church marriages. I doubt that Martin's decision to put this through has anything to do with courage and leadership because everything he does has to do with political expediency, but those who forced that expediency on him have shown great leadership and courage. When we choose to make others less than us, even through mere semantics, because they happen to be different, it has the end result of us less than them.

...

A large part of Harper's scariness are his continued attempts to deny what his party stands for....that old hidden agenda. His public attempts to be changing his appearance do not alleviate those fears. Instead they tend to exacerbate them.

1) Actually, same-sex marriage jeopardizes marriage as a whole. It makes marriage more vulnerable. Who knows, in a few centuries, or even decades, we may see people wanting marriage as a union between three or four people, and other absurd ideas. So when we say "no" to people who want this, then we are putting them lower than us? Creating a civil union does not mean that heterosexuals are more important than homosexuals in any case. I believe in the rights of homosexuals too, yet, I also believe in the rights of those who want to keep traditional marriage. Civil union is an offical union, just as important as marriage, but for homosexuals. This way, we do not impede on those who want tarditional marriage, and those who stand for homosexual rights.

2) ..."That old hidden agenda," or so what the Liberal ads say. By now, we should know the Liberals will say and do anything to stay in power. Let's take a look at the Liberals' hidden agenda: Joining up with the socialists and separatists to stay in power. Also, Stephen Harper's "scariness" is just a flaw in his personality. Surely, Paul Martin has the charisma, but he has flaws too, such as his "shakiness" and "spinning girations" in the leaders' debate. We don't see Paul Martin trying to change his "shakiness," but we see Harper at least giving an effort to a change his "scariness."

 

[BlueCrusader]

RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Well, there seems to be a lot of... bashing around here. What about we be civilized and debate like civilized people, both Tories, Grits, New Democrats, and Blocers alike.

 

[peapod]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

) Actually, same-sex marriage jeopardizes marriage as a whole. It makes marriage more vulnerable.

Than I suggest that you work on your marriage a little harder.