Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Liberals

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Why you hate the Cons

I dislike the Conservatives because I consider them to be fanatically right-wing, and I disagree with them on just about every issue. I consider Stephen Harper to be a panderer to big-business, right-wing religious radicals, and George W. Bush, the first of which I distrust, the second of which I find objectanable, and the latter of which I depise throughlly.

I'm not to enarmored of the Liberals either, in my opinion they are a bunch of corrupt slimeballs. They have become convinced, after more then a decade in power that they can do whatever they want. It's time to show them that they CAN'T do whatever they want, it's time to remind them that their mandate comes from us, and they can't lie, cheat and steal and expect to continue to be allowed to govern.

I support the NDP, I agree with them on a lot of issues, and I have been impressed by Jack Layton's conduct in general.

Voting for the NDP will ensure the liberals stay in power.

What part of their policies has convinced you the conservatives are radically right wing, as you call them? Unless you are so far left that any centrist party is right wing, there is nothing at all in their policies and issues to make your claim true.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Hey, didja hear the good news? Bill C-48, the NDP budget amendment, passed tonight. You know what that means? It means that the money that Canadians pay in taxes will go to help Canadians instead of multi-national corporations.

The SSM marriage bill, C-38 will be passing shortly. Parliament will sit until it goes through. You know what means? Equal rights for gays and lesbians who choose to get married.

You know what it means all taken together? That Harper and his Conservatives are about done. They've lost all credibility in their claim to be an effective opposition, or even competent.

 

[LeftCoast]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Blue - you are doing a very good job of parroting the intellecturally bankrupt talking points of the GOP ... oops I mean CPC.

On global warming, a made in Canada approach is simply a delaying tactic. Let's just stick our collective heads in the (tar) sand for a little while longer. It is the Canadian equivalent to the republican mantra "we need to study the phenomenon more".

Carbon credits are not a transfer of wealth, but a balancing of a broken market. Carbon trading is not the end all be all, but it is an approach that applies very sound economic principles to the problem. In simple terms, within a given industry, it makes the dirtiest producers more expensive and the cleanest producers cheaper. This allows market forces to do the rest. Consumers benefit, the environment benefit and cleaner producers benefit. Carbon credits also provide a market driven incentive for companies to employ expensive new technology to the problems.

The biggest problem with polluters (from an economic perspective) is that the full cost of production is not reflected in the price. In fact, with oil and gas, tax payers actually subsize exploration and development through depletion allowances. Externalities - the cost of pollution, healthcare costs, the cost of depleted non-renewable resources, etc. are not factored into the price of the product need to show up as costs otherwise the market is disfunctional.

By not charging resource companies enough for the cost of depleting a non-renewable resource, we are robbing future generations of Canadians of a portion of their birthright. Likewise, by not charging companies and industries for producing products which pollute the environment and contribute to global warming we are stealing from our children and grand children by irresponsibly and irreversibly altering their climate. Carbon credits are a step toward pricing these negative externalities into the end product. Consumers then get a benefit for choosing cleaner (and therefore cheaper) products.

 

[LeftCoast]

RE: Why you hate the Cons

That is so lame, the CPC have not ever handled a social policy, they have not been in government.

That kind of speaks volumes. Social policy is simply not a priority for Conservatives.

 

[Andygal]

RE: Why you hate the Cons

YES! At long last! All the Conservatives underhanded tactics have failed to derail the will of the Canadian public! The will of the people have pervailed over the will of big-business and assorted fanatical nutjobs!

And we have the NDP to thank for all of this, without them all that money would have been wasted on big businesses, now it will go to what Canadians want!

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Carbon credits are not a transfer of wealth, but a balancing of a broken market.

I've tried explaining this a few different ways, Left Coast. It hasn't worked. There is a basic mistruth in the way the right describes the credits. I hope your explanation, which is excellent, does better. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Why you hate the Cons

YES! At long last! All the Conservatives underhanded tactics have failed to derail the will of the Canadian public! The will of the people have pervailed over the will of big-business and assorted fanatical nutjobs!

And we have the NDP to thank for all of this, without them all that money would have been wasted on big businesses, now it will go to what Canadians want!

What kind of fiscal controls is there on C-48? None, so what we have here is the son of ADSCAM, but instead of $350million it will be $5billion.

There are no outlines as to how this $5billion is to be spent. In fact, the AG had questions of Indian and Northern affairs in 2000 about post secondary eduction for aboriginals which have not been answered, and now more millions will go there.

So if you want to congratulate yourselves on giving another $5billion of taxpayer money which will be totall unaccountable, feel free. Budgets on a piece of paper written by Jack, Buzz, and Paul, with no input or consultation with the sitting finance minisiter. Way to go, folks, another third world deal.

As for business, when the jobs start to go away because the business leaves, or cuts back, remember that yes, it was the NDP that caused the little guys to lose their jobs. The NDP lost their worker mantra last fall during the PSAC strike, and this is just another example of how the NDP really could care less about workers.

You know the best thing? Being in Alberta, we really don't care about your money, we don't need it. Even with our floods this past few weeks, we have gone out on our own, have not been like Ontario and Manitoba and whined to the feds that we need the army or money to fix things. We just did them ourselves. Just like we always did and just like we always will, NOTWITHSTANDING how the rest of Canada perceives us.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Blue - you are doing a very good job of parroting the intellecturally bankrupt talking points of the GOP ... oops I mean CPC.

On global warming, a made in Canada approach is simply a delaying tactic. Let's just stick our collective heads in the (tar) sand for a little while longer. It is the Canadian equivalent to the republican mantra "we need to study the phenomenon more".

Carbon credits are not a transfer of wealth, but a balancing of a broken market. Carbon trading is not the end all be all, but it is an approach that applies very sound economic principles to the problem. In simple terms, within a given industry, it makes the dirtiest producers more expensive and the cleanest producers cheaper. This allows market forces to do the rest. Consumers benefit, the environment benefit and cleaner producers benefit. Carbon credits also provide a market driven incentive for companies to employ expensive new technology to the problems.

The biggest problem with polluters (from an economic perspective) is that the full cost of production is not reflected in the price. In fact, with oil and gas, tax payers actually subsize exploration and development through depletion allowances. Externalities - the cost of pollution, healthcare costs, the cost of depleted non-renewable resources, etc. are not factored into the price of the product need to show up as costs otherwise the market is disfunctional.

By not charging resource companies enough for the cost of depleting a non-renewable resource, we are robbing future generations of Canadians of a portion of their birthright. Likewise, by not charging companies and industries for producing products which pollute the environment and contribute to global warming we are stealing from our children and grand children by irresponsibly and irreversibly altering their climate. Carbon credits are a step toward pricing these negative externalities into the end product. Consumers then get a benefit for choosing cleaner (and therefore cheaper) products.

Three things:

First, if you want to intellectually correct, do not do what you have just done and confuse pollution with CO2 emissions, they are not the same thing. CO2 is necessary for life. Pollution is an entirely different subject.

Secondly, by "pricing these negative externalities into the end product" ignores a simple fact. The end product is paid for by the consumer, so the consumer will be paying more for these "negative externalties" you mention.

Thirdly, and more important, if you did any research at all, you would be aware that Alberta is already way ahead of the rest of the country regarding emission controls. Just today an agreement was signed with the Alberta Truck Transport Assn regarding these controls, and more have and will be signed. This province recognises there is a problem, but instead of giving money to third world countries, other than Canada, Alberta uses money to create a solution that actually works, and is not based on some pie in the sky theory. Emissions are being controlled, better use of energy is being developed, and better technology is being developed, all the to the benefit of Alberta and Canada and to the oil and gas industry.

 

[peapod]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Bluealberta is upset, who can really blame him. Lets not bite and get into a big free for all..just asking, your free to do as you like, lets just not call names.

Anyone want pizza?

 

[bluealberta]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Hey, didja hear the good news? Bill C-48, the NDP budget amendment, passed tonight. You know what that means? It means that the money that Canadians pay in taxes will go to help Canadians instead of multi-national corporations.

The SSM marriage bill, C-38 will be passing shortly. Parliament will sit until it goes through. You know what means? Equal rights for gays and lesbians who choose to get married.

You know what it means all taken together? That Harper and his Conservatives are about done. They've lost all credibility in their claim to be an effective opposition, or even competent.

Don't underestimate the common sense of the Canadian public. These two issues may ignite the biggest backlash seen since Mulroney was turfed, and the Libs and NDP would be wise to remember that lesson in history.

And laws created by a power at all costs party can be revoked by a common sense party.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Bluealberta is upset, who can really blame him. Lets not bite and get into a big free for all..just asking, your free to do as you like, lets just not call names.

Anyone want pizza?

Patronizing by you is so pathetic. Not upset, just very happy to be in Alberta about now.

 

[peapod]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

That's the difference between you and l. You think I am patronizing you, when in fact I never kick someone when they are down, no matter who they are. So continue on if you must, I am not going to bite.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

That's the difference between you and l. You think I am patronizing you, when in fact I never kick someone when they are down, no matter who they are. So continue on if you must, I am not going to bite.

If you were not patronizing, I apologise. I don't patronize either, and have learned how to win and lose with grace. The vote to me is very disappointing, and quite frankly, from my side of the political spectrum, I fear for the country with where the Libs are taking us. The future will tell.

 

[peapod]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

thank you, because I was not patronizing you. I am offended by gloating, if the shoe was on the other foot, I would hope you would feel the same.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

thank you, because I was not patronizing you. I am offended by gloating, if the shoe was on the other foot, I would hope you would feel the same.

Make you a deal. When the shoe is on the other foot, I promise not to gloat either.

 

[peapod]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

agreed.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Don't underestimate the common sense of the Canadian public. These two issues may ignite the biggest backlash seen since Mulroney was turfed, and the Libs and NDP would be wise to remember that lesson in history.

I don't underestimate them at all, Blue. The NDP budget amendment is popular with Canadians. That's why the Bloc was willing to swing a deal to get it voted on last night and why the Liberals keep trying to claim it as their own.

The SSM thing is pretty much a non-factor because it is only vehemently opposed by the religious right. The average person, church-going or not, does not consider it important enough to change their vote for. It is popular in the places where the Conservatives need to gain votes though...urban areas in Ontario, Quebec, and BC.

In short, the Conservative opposition to those two bills is going to hurt them badly in the places they need to break through. The backlash will be against the Harperites.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Why you hate the Cons

[You know the best thing? Being in Alberta, we really don't care about your money, we don't need it. Even with our floods this past few weeks, we have gone out on our own, have not been like Ontario and Manitoba and whined to the feds that we need the army or money to fix things. We just did them ourselves. Just like we always did and just like we always will, NOTWITHSTANDING how the rest of Canada perceives us.

I don't know the severity of the floods in Alberta, could you elaborate? Is it as bad as Manitoba a few years back?

I was here for the ice storm, and the biggest concern was for the elderly who wouldn't leave their homes. I was VERY pregnant at the time, and for some reason, my street was the only one for blocks that did,'t lose power. I had several friends who were without power and heat for up to 3 weeks - in January. Is that what things are like in Alberta right now?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Why you hate the Cons

The Alberta situation is different than the Manitoba flood, Said. The Alberta floods came fast and went away fast. Here in Manitoba it was like we were under seige for months. Flying into Winnipeg was like flying over a completely foreign landscape. There was nothing but water as far as you see.

Neither of those compare to the ice storm. Flooding is nasty and inconvenient, but it's nothing like having no power or heat in January. The ice storm is more like some big blizzards we've had here because of the way it shuts everything down, but much more serious.

Blue's claim that Alberta didn't go to the feds for money contradicts what Ralph Klein said on TV a few days ago when the second round of flooding was happening. I don't know if Klein changed his mind or not, but he did say, in front of the TV cameras, that Alberta would be seeking federal money.

 

[TenPenny]

RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Alberta. Where would you be without the Maritimers?