Why The 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away
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Re: RE: Why The 9/11 Conspira
Once again you are clueless what the Pentagon Papers are about. And I see you have at least one fan following your ignorance.
gopher said:
Once again you are clueless what the Pentagon Papers are about. And I see you have at least one fan following your ignorance.
Hey ITN, I don't say anything has happened. I do say anything is possible, considering it was in the governments interest for it to happen. Anyone can figure that out. The fact that a large chunk of rightwingers will fall for and defend anything the administration does is further evidence it is capable of happening. He could nuke Iowa and most of the base will defend it. The history of the planet is one scoundrel escapade after another. Somehow I doubt the Bush admin is the first in world history to be nothing but compassionate and 100% honest souls who only care about others and not their objectives to remain the most powerful level of government on Earth.
RE: Why The 9/11 Conspira
Good thread.
Well first of all, a lot of people don't believe the conspiracy theorists, but at the same time do not want soldiers being sent to the other side of the world.
I have nothing wrong with people doing research on 911, maybe even expecting to find something different from the 'official line', but what I do have a problem with, is when people write a page or a book on something and do not provide sources.
Sources help so that people can see where you are coming from, do their own research, and make their own judgements.
How the hell are we supposed to believe anything they say when they make it so damn hard to do so? Am I supposed to just take whatever the conspiracy theorist says as the truth? That much of the work done in the 911 truth movement is devoid of any sources, among other things, is an embarrasing fact.
Good thread.
Well first of all, a lot of people don't believe the conspiracy theorists, but at the same time do not want soldiers being sent to the other side of the world.
I have nothing wrong with people doing research on 911, maybe even expecting to find something different from the 'official line', but what I do have a problem with, is when people write a page or a book on something and do not provide sources.
Sources help so that people can see where you are coming from, do their own research, and make their own judgements.
How the hell are we supposed to believe anything they say when they make it so damn hard to do so? Am I supposed to just take whatever the conspiracy theorist says as the truth? That much of the work done in the 911 truth movement is devoid of any sources, among other things, is an embarrasing fact.
I think not said:
If I remember correctly, the 9-11 report along with other sources were critical that the writing was on the wall for this kind of event, yet it came as a big surprise to those entrusted to defend the country.
The event was used as a selling point in the war on Iraq. A war the government in power wanted but needed a homeland event to gain enough public support.
An enormous amount of wealth has been transferred from the US treasury to the military industry, some of which to very close ties of the administration. A conflict of interest if nothing else, but even peons in industry are required to abide by conflict on interest guidelines. For a good reason - even if they do nothing wrong a conflict of interest situation lessens the credibility and integrity of the company. This version of COI is at the highest levels in the land, and people are dying from it as a matter of policy.
The party in power is reliant on a terrorism-fearing electorate to hold power. Fear = Power.
The evidence is quite strong that the the public should not trust this administration. It's no wonder all facets of the issues are under suspicion and scrutiny.
OK for thos eof you who didnt check maddox's opinions... here is why he says there cannot be a conspiracy... i think he has a point, although i do admit he's a raving lunatic (thats why i like him).
"Dylan Avery. To be more precise, the fact that Dylan, his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bullshit. He, along with a couple of his friends, created a 9/11 conspiracy video claiming that the US government and the military caused 9/11. Take a closer look at the last part of that last sentence: he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it."
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
"Dylan Avery. To be more precise, the fact that Dylan, his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bullshit. He, along with a couple of his friends, created a 9/11 conspiracy video claiming that the US government and the military caused 9/11. Take a closer look at the last part of that last sentence: he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it."
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
As I posted earlier there are over 360,000 websites that publish hate mongering, racism, lies of all kinds, misinformation, terrorism, hide truth and facts within lies in order to convince people that they know what they are talking about.
Conspiracy theory is a bunch of horsecrap posted by supporters of hate mongering, racism, terrorism and the spreading of misinformation.
Even though I was a Government employee years ago I was not a supporter of any political party and for good reasons. I was more than well trained to spot BS and misinformation and it is easily identifiable by someone like myself.
For example G W Bush and the Republicans wanted to destroy and kill Americans and Canadians who were in the WTC and the pilots were not Islamic extremists they were American Commercial Pilots who made over $100,000 a year. Right? Anyone who believes that is brainless !!
Conspiracy theory is a bunch of horsecrap posted by supporters of hate mongering, racism, terrorism and the spreading of misinformation.
Even though I was a Government employee years ago I was not a supporter of any political party and for good reasons. I was more than well trained to spot BS and misinformation and it is easily identifiable by someone like myself.
For example G W Bush and the Republicans wanted to destroy and kill Americans and Canadians who were in the WTC and the pilots were not Islamic extremists they were American Commercial Pilots who made over $100,000 a year. Right? Anyone who believes that is brainless !!
Re: RE: Why The 9/11 Conspira
Do your own search, who cares about books? the real evidence of 9-11, isnt on books, is right there on public records, look for building 7, how it fell, who decided to do it , people like steven jones, who were a great bush supporter until recently, discovered thermate in WTC debris, which means they were brought down with explosives, look for anthrax, the root of alqueada, when in fact , there is not a single shred of evidence that 9-11 was done by islamic extremist, not even little litle one.
humanbeing said:
Do your own search, who cares about books? the real evidence of 9-11, isnt on books, is right there on public records, look for building 7, how it fell, who decided to do it , people like steven jones, who were a great bush supporter until recently, discovered thermate in WTC debris, which means they were brought down with explosives, look for anthrax, the root of alqueada, when in fact , there is not a single shred of evidence that 9-11 was done by islamic extremist, not even little litle one.
RE: Why The 9/11 Conspira
But it could be a hell of a lot easier if they would just show everyone else where to look. That's the beauty of sources, they help give others an idea of where to look -- more specifically, where the researcher looked to come to the conclusions that he or she did. I would reckon that any serious scholarship would include sources for something like 911 building 7, and especially on the people "who decided to do it", and in making the connections between the two.
There would have to be sources, unless of course the source is the conspiracy theorist himself, who perhaps dressed up in black and secretly listened in on some top level CIA discussion about orchestrating a terrorist attack on the US... Or perhaps the conspiracy theorist is just witholding sources to piss everyone else off, and make others' attempts at researching and verifying that much harder?
(Just to make it clear, I don't mean to denigrate your position with whatever I've said. I'm not about attacking people who are "trying to find the truth".)
But it could be a hell of a lot easier if they would just show everyone else where to look. That's the beauty of sources, they help give others an idea of where to look -- more specifically, where the researcher looked to come to the conclusions that he or she did. I would reckon that any serious scholarship would include sources for something like 911 building 7, and especially on the people "who decided to do it", and in making the connections between the two.
There would have to be sources, unless of course the source is the conspiracy theorist himself, who perhaps dressed up in black and secretly listened in on some top level CIA discussion about orchestrating a terrorist attack on the US... Or perhaps the conspiracy theorist is just witholding sources to piss everyone else off, and make others' attempts at researching and verifying that much harder?
(Just to make it clear, I don't mean to denigrate your position with whatever I've said. I'm not about attacking people who are "trying to find the truth".)
RE: Why The 9/11 Conspira
That was a very well thought out post by Dexter Sinister, one in which I agree.
I sometimes think that we, as a society, have become so educated to alway question, probe, peel back the layer, question some more etc everything that is tossed to us. However, we are so used to us that when something simple is presented to us, we want to see more than there is. Human nature. You can argue that a tomato is a fruit or a vegetable, but its still a tomato when all is said and done.
As for 9-11 specifically, the thing is that if it was a conspiricy, you would have to have every person involved, in all aspects of the story, be in sync or its off.
Examples: Flight 93. Ok..you could argue that it was a fighter jet that blew it down, and not the act of "let's roll" crew. Except for one minor detail that many of these people called their loved ones. The people who called who have no other connection to anyone else on the plane would all cooridinate their stories in advanced to tell their families that hijackers are attacking their plane just for kicks? That the plane once it started to decend would continue for miles and miles and mile if it was hit by a rocket? Is it even possible to be hit by a rocket and continue to fly at a gradually decresing angle that would occasionally stabalize? I would have imagined that if it was hit by a rocket, it would have exploded instantly, and not crash as one unit, but in parts? So are the people who did call their loved ones lying?
The plane that crashed into the Pentagon: Has anyone ever actually been to the Pentagon on Can Con? Its FREAKING HUGE. I went in 2002, and let me tell ya, that damage took out a massive chunk of building. But the Pentagon is SO FUCKING HUGE that it still appears small to the average eye. But besides that...so are the thousands of witnesses in the street or driving by that witnessed the planes flying low into the pentagon lying? Thats one hell of a collaberation story. And again..family was called from the plane , all mentioning hostages on the plane. Were they lying too, including a former CNN analyst who died on the plane?
The other two jets that crashed into WTC. Were those passangers lying to their families too. Wowzers, we have one big massive groups of perpetual liars that have nothing better to do than torment their families with fear.
The idea that a building is invincible? That if two jumbo jets full of fuel over 1300 degrees farenheith could not weaken the structure of the steel?
And incidently, the little puffs everyone talks about? Well when a building collapses, you will have those puffs as the downward energy force will explode as it descends. There is a reason why there is huge sound when a balloon deflates. That sound alone will cause explosion. IF the building were to have been destroyed by set explosives, than in fact you would have more of the steel intact, not in dust and ashes. The ashes are a result of the strength of the downward force.
And again, i am baffled why people would think that a building would remian in tact if two planes flew into it? Good lord, if a piece of ice can sink a ship, than surely a freaking jet could bring a building down.
Conspiricy theorys are for those that have nothing better to do with their lives than discredit stuff that should be taken for vace value, instead of actually questioning things that should be analyzed, like systematic poverty among many other topics that deserve attention.
That was a very well thought out post by Dexter Sinister, one in which I agree.
I sometimes think that we, as a society, have become so educated to alway question, probe, peel back the layer, question some more etc everything that is tossed to us. However, we are so used to us that when something simple is presented to us, we want to see more than there is. Human nature. You can argue that a tomato is a fruit or a vegetable, but its still a tomato when all is said and done.
As for 9-11 specifically, the thing is that if it was a conspiricy, you would have to have every person involved, in all aspects of the story, be in sync or its off.
Examples: Flight 93. Ok..you could argue that it was a fighter jet that blew it down, and not the act of "let's roll" crew. Except for one minor detail that many of these people called their loved ones. The people who called who have no other connection to anyone else on the plane would all cooridinate their stories in advanced to tell their families that hijackers are attacking their plane just for kicks? That the plane once it started to decend would continue for miles and miles and mile if it was hit by a rocket? Is it even possible to be hit by a rocket and continue to fly at a gradually decresing angle that would occasionally stabalize? I would have imagined that if it was hit by a rocket, it would have exploded instantly, and not crash as one unit, but in parts? So are the people who did call their loved ones lying?
The plane that crashed into the Pentagon: Has anyone ever actually been to the Pentagon on Can Con? Its FREAKING HUGE. I went in 2002, and let me tell ya, that damage took out a massive chunk of building. But the Pentagon is SO FUCKING HUGE that it still appears small to the average eye. But besides that...so are the thousands of witnesses in the street or driving by that witnessed the planes flying low into the pentagon lying? Thats one hell of a collaberation story. And again..family was called from the plane , all mentioning hostages on the plane. Were they lying too, including a former CNN analyst who died on the plane?
The other two jets that crashed into WTC. Were those passangers lying to their families too. Wowzers, we have one big massive groups of perpetual liars that have nothing better to do than torment their families with fear.
The idea that a building is invincible? That if two jumbo jets full of fuel over 1300 degrees farenheith could not weaken the structure of the steel?
And incidently, the little puffs everyone talks about? Well when a building collapses, you will have those puffs as the downward energy force will explode as it descends. There is a reason why there is huge sound when a balloon deflates. That sound alone will cause explosion. IF the building were to have been destroyed by set explosives, than in fact you would have more of the steel intact, not in dust and ashes. The ashes are a result of the strength of the downward force.
And again, i am baffled why people would think that a building would remian in tact if two planes flew into it? Good lord, if a piece of ice can sink a ship, than surely a freaking jet could bring a building down.
Conspiricy theorys are for those that have nothing better to do with their lives than discredit stuff that should be taken for vace value, instead of actually questioning things that should be analyzed, like systematic poverty among many other topics that deserve attention.
Re: RE: Why The 9/11 Conspira
Man, have you EVER proven your lack of knowledge with this boner!
The so-called "Pentagon Papers" consisted entirely of a study on America's involvement in Vietnam from 1945 to 1967. The study was set in motion by Robert McNamara, the man in charge of military affairs for Lyndon Johnson.
The papers were explosive because they revealed how Americans were lied to while the war was expanded............and because they were secret, stolen, and printed in the newspapers in defiance of the gov't.
No plots to kill Americans to create profit......
gopher said:
Man, have you EVER proven your lack of knowledge with this boner!
The so-called "Pentagon Papers" consisted entirely of a study on America's involvement in Vietnam from 1945 to 1967. The study was set in motion by Robert McNamara, the man in charge of military affairs for Lyndon Johnson.
The papers were explosive because they revealed how Americans were lied to while the war was expanded............and because they were secret, stolen, and printed in the newspapers in defiance of the gov't.
No plots to kill Americans to create profit......
Re: RE: Why The 9/11 Conspira
All facts regardings 9-11, are in public records, when i say look for building 7,you will find videos of the collapse+ statement by the owner+ research from those who question the officials story, and so on,read the 9-11 final report , don't need to go wild and crazy to understand what happened.
humanbeing said:
All facts regardings 9-11, are in public records, when i say look for building 7,you will find videos of the collapse+ statement by the owner+ research from those who question the officials story, and so on,read the 9-11 final report , don't need to go wild and crazy to understand what happened.
What an interesting society we have become. I have never understood the urge to beleive the offical line of 911. It seems to me there are more than enough questions that one should at the very least question it. Especially in light of what has happened since 911. The cries from people about CT'ers being foolish or without a brain or other such nonesense only underlines(for me) that the official story is crap.
So let me ask someone who does beleive the offical story - Why? Why do you beleive that some odd terrorists hijacked 4 planes(with box cutters) and convienced 80+ people to passively accept their deaths, and despite apparently not being able to fly a sesnia(sp? small plane) they were able to fly jumbo jets, right on target and then have a steel structure building that was designed to take a hit and still stand(Albeit from a slightly smaller plane) collapse. While at the Pentagon, take time and care into all this planning and such never notice they were hitting a non-important(wasn't it under eno' or something?) pentagon section, which no less than 8 private camera's and 5 public camera's, and at least 4 Pentagon camera all caught site of, and all camera's and footage was confiscated and removed and classified(Even to this day), while leaving very little debris from the plane.
I tend to beleive that someone is not right with the offical story. Who, what, where and why I don't know but the offical story for me leaves too many questions not to question it. So what is it that makes you beleive that it is true?
So let me ask someone who does beleive the offical story - Why? Why do you beleive that some odd terrorists hijacked 4 planes(with box cutters) and convienced 80+ people to passively accept their deaths, and despite apparently not being able to fly a sesnia(sp? small plane) they were able to fly jumbo jets, right on target and then have a steel structure building that was designed to take a hit and still stand(Albeit from a slightly smaller plane) collapse. While at the Pentagon, take time and care into all this planning and such never notice they were hitting a non-important(wasn't it under eno' or something?) pentagon section, which no less than 8 private camera's and 5 public camera's, and at least 4 Pentagon camera all caught site of, and all camera's and footage was confiscated and removed and classified(Even to this day), while leaving very little debris from the plane.
I tend to beleive that someone is not right with the offical story. Who, what, where and why I don't know but the offical story for me leaves too many questions not to question it. So what is it that makes you beleive that it is true?
First of all the hyjackers cut the throats of the Pilots and Dolly Trollys in front of passengers so yes I do believe people would freeze in fear. Second there were phone calls made to 911 many many such phone calls that described the events as they were unfolding. Blah blah blah blah. Would Muslim Extremist be able to use these tactics again? NO the passengers would fight to the death to kill these filthy vile dogs.
Footnote: Bin Laden did confess on tape, second Bin Laden confessed on tape, third Bin laden bragged about September 11 and his role on tape. The hyjackers made a tape laughing and partying prior to Mass Murdering innocents. Blah blah blah. Do I have questions yes, where does all the Tin foil go after the hat falls off.
Footnote: Bin Laden did confess on tape, second Bin Laden confessed on tape, third Bin laden bragged about September 11 and his role on tape. The hyjackers made a tape laughing and partying prior to Mass Murdering innocents. Blah blah blah. Do I have questions yes, where does all the Tin foil go after the hat falls off.
Even monstrous acts are so monstrous, it is better to find other answers. Even to the point of bringing the act "home" to a familiar place.
Islamic terrorists committing suicide, murder, unspeakable acts in the name of some foreign religious belief - to modern westerners, it is the stuff of film and creative genius making people do things they
could not do in reality.
It is better we did it to our own.... it becomes more manageable to intuit and allows us to place blame on
all the boogeymen we have carried with us since childhood up until our adulthood where we find the world is not safe after all and we desperately must place blame on those we know rather than mad strangers.
Islamic terrorists committing suicide, murder, unspeakable acts in the name of some foreign religious belief - to modern westerners, it is the stuff of film and creative genius making people do things they
could not do in reality.
It is better we did it to our own.... it becomes more manageable to intuit and allows us to place blame on
all the boogeymen we have carried with us since childhood up until our adulthood where we find the world is not safe after all and we desperately must place blame on those we know rather than mad strangers.
I've never understood why anyone would believe anything so bizarre, fantastical, and without any hard evidence whatsoever, instead based on unsubstantiated theory and conjecture, to believe such a strange story that Bush was responsible for 9/11
You can slice throats with box cutters.
They didn't know they were going to die. They were told they werent' going to be hurt. Passengers are conditioned to not resist hijackers. That's what they told you during the 1970s. Then when they do fight back, the Foilers concot this big story about how a missile hit the Pentagon.
Wrong.
That's why they took the lessons.
Discussed and rebuked ad nauseum here.
Now its a "non-important" section. lol The foilers will twist any way they can.
Foiler logic;
Last night, a UFO hovered above my yard and stole all my cows. Now prove that it didn't happen.