Why do liberals want a big Government?

sombraa110

Electoral Member
Feb 1, 2010
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I think that has more to do with politicians being such a pile of goofoffs, crooks, and otherwise unsavory characters. That all sounds to me like misapplication of gov't and nothing to do with size.

Didn't Obama promise a tax cut for 95% of Americans and then promise health care, paying for people's mortgages, and many other entitlement and paying for them by raising the taxes on those that make over $250,000 per year. Yes he did annd you know it so stop attacking me with your lies. Demanding free stuff when you are not handicapt and could earn it yourself is stealing. Jjust because you do it through the government does not mean that it is not.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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Didn't Obama promise a tax cut for 95% of Americans and then promise health care, paying for people's mortgages, and many other entitlement and paying for them by raising the taxes on those that make over $250,000 per year. Yes he did annd you know it so stop attacking me with your lies. Demanding free stuff when you are not handicapt and could earn it yourself is stealing. Jjust because you do it through the government does not mean that it is not.

You'd have to provide a link for that....
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Didn't Obama promise a tax cut for 95% of Americans and then promise health care, paying for people's mortgages, and many other entitlement and paying for them by raising the taxes on those that make over $250,000 per year. Yes he did annd you know it so stop attacking me with your lies. Demanding free stuff when you are not handicapt and could earn it yourself is stealing. Jjust because you do it through the government does not mean that it is not.
WTF are you babbling about? What lies have I told? Where did I mention anything about Obama, cutting taxes, health care, the handicapped, etc.? You better start taking your meds again. You're getting unruly.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
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Yup. That's pretty much what I just said.

Really? If I remember correctly, one of the first things Harpy did was cut the size of gov't down after ChRETIeN and aPAULing grew it.
I don't know about the States, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Big O boosted the size.
Actually, I believe it was trudeau who increased the size of the government.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Actually, I believe it was trudeau who increased the size of the government.
I wouldn't doubt it. I just know Harpy intended on trimming a lot of fat off it. lol (Or at least said so).
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Why do liberals want a big Government? That is an easy question to answer: Because they are incapable of taking care of themselves.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Im sitting here trying to imagine why "anyone" would want a big Government that tells them what to do.

Why do you guys want a huge Government to control your life and finances?

Help me understand.
__________________
- De Oppresso Liber - :angry3:

You're argument is a little one-sided, don't you think? The military, police, border guards, prison expansion, military involvement abroad, wire-tapping, ain't that all an expansion of government too?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Why do liberals want a big Government? That is an easy question to answer: Because they are incapable of taking care of themselves.

Well, what about conservatives relying on the government to defend their country? Can they not arm themelves?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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In the end, 'big government' is not a monopoly of either the left or the right. You have left-leaning anarchists and right-leaning libertarians both of which are for small government, then you have left-leaning labour-socialists and right-leaning militarists who are both for big government. This is not a right nor left issue. Bush bloated the government like no president before him did. While in Canada big government has usually been associated with the left, in the US it's just the opposite. It's under Bush and Reagan that government spending really jumped, in spite of tax cuts.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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Who is "you guys?' Do you mean Canadians? If so then we don't necessarily want big government, but like Americans we do want services such as health care, sanitation, schools, parks, recreation, decent highways, etc. It just so happens that government usually provides such services more efficiently and cheaply than the private sector.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Who is "you guys?' Do you mean Canadians? If so then we don't necessarily want big government, but like Americans we do want services such as health care, sanitation, schools, parks, recreation, decent highways, etc. It just so happens that government usually provides such services more efficiently and cheaply than the private sector.

I think he was trying to imply that the left is more for big government than the right. I'd say that's totally dependent on which left and which right we were comparing. If you compare a right-leaning libertarian and a left-leaning labour socialist, then yes he may very well be right. However, if you compare a left-leaning anarchist and right-leaning militarist, the opposite would be true. And if you compare a left-leaning labour socialist and right-leaning militarist, it's a tough call.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Then of course you have social democrats who are for neither big nor small government, but moderately-sized government.

I get the impression the OP is way oversimplifying things based on stereotypes.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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i think liberals would like a big government so that the wealth is redistrubuted to the populations that need it. Right now wealth is concentrated to the rich and thats not fair.

The rich used fast and savvy gimmicks to get where they are, yes they worked hard, but they worked hard immorally to get where they are.

They might want a big government that will give reparations to the poor and all those who have been oppressed as they do now with social security, food stamps, and welfare.

There are ways of redistributing wealth without massive government. For example, co-determination laws give workers more power to negotiate fair wages with their employers. This obviously helps redistribute wealth but not necessarily through more government taxation.

Other examples could include requiring people to give a certain percentage of their income towards helping the poor, or to a local school, or to the government to do that for them. Doing it that way, people would not be obliged to give their income to the government if they did not want to, and could give directly to a charity instead, thus circumventing government bureaucracy in the process.

Resource taxes are another way to influence change without massive government. Those who don't want to pay too much in resource taxes have the option of consuming fewer resources, leading to smaller government but also less traffic, etc. thus reducing the need for government to build more highways for example.

In other words, it is possible for the government to promote progress without necessarily having to expand itself, but rather simply by manipulating the flow of money in the private sector itself. Requiring people to save a percentage of their income in good times for a rainy day would be another example of the government manipulating the free market without necessarily growing itself.
 

theconqueror

Time Out
Feb 1, 2010
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Didn't Obama promise a tax cut for 95% of Americans and then promise health care, paying for people's mortgages, and many other entitlement and paying for them by raising the taxes on those that make over $250,000 per year. Yes he did annd you know it so stop attacking me with your lies. Demanding free stuff when you are not handicapt and could earn it yourself is stealing. Jjust because you do it through the government does not mean that it is not.


http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Denver/T/Obama_Starry_Eyed.gif
 

Magnus

New Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Really? If I remember correctly, one of the first things Harpy did was cut the size of gov't down after ChRETIeN and aPAULing grew it.
I don't know about the States, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Big O boosted the size.

I don't know where you get the idea that the conservatives cut the size of the government. They spend like a bunch of drunken monkeys.

Irresponsibly cutting taxes != reducing the size of the government
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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Like most things we end up with the path to tradition rather than the path to reality.
The people who supported the Liberals did so because the wanted more for their
children after the Great Depression and two world wars. Conservative governments
completely failed the people during those difficult and challenging times. The opposition governments that came to power were real leaders that brought people
back to confidence and they worked themselves out of the mess. Many people today
don't realize when the war ended it didn't bring prosperity to the masses right away.
I still have milk rations as late a 1947 as a kid the book is still around here somewhere. Good time came in the late 50's for most. Oh the economy may be rolling along but the real good times didn 't start right away because industry was
geared to a war economy. Over time and into the early seventies the government
became huge to support programs that had re-invented themselves and become the
mess we still have today. The left of which I have supported for years abandoned its
goals and central core. The old CCF or early New Democrats were socially progressive and fiscally conservative. Tommy Douglas balanced the books in
Saskatchewan year after year. The right wing developed a wing of the party that
become Red Tories and they were quite left in many respects.
The reason they failed, is because they forgot who they were serving and the real
hope for prosperity and advancement. Today we have conservative governments
in debt and getting bigger because they too forgot who they were there for.
They hand out tax breaks to the already rich and over spend to maintain a lifestyle
the nation can no longer afford. The conservatives have strayed so far they are now
actually the party of debt. They want larger government to regulate the injustice
they suffered, instead the government is so big it has become the symbol of injustice itself
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Well, what about conservatives relying on the government to defend their country? Can they not arm themelves?
and they do., the government is mostly defended by conservatives. Do not see to many greenies accountants and lawyers enlisting.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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Maybe they are the same people who want big religion? They may need someone to tell them how to live their lives.
People with a deep religious belief do not need government to tell them what to do, they have their belief system do that for them. It's those who have no religious belief that need big brother to control their lives and give it meaning; hence they jump on all the bandwagons such as big government, the green movement, global warming, and so on.
 
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