Why Conservatives Should Thank Chuck Cadman

[Vanni Fucci]

Scandals from Mulroney's Government:

Some Noteworthy Allegations

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/cana-f19.shtml

And what of the revelation that Karlheinz Schreiber, a German-Canadian arms dealer whom the German government is seeking to extradite, paid former Progressive Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney $300,000—in cash, in hotel rooms—shortly after he left office? Although Mulroney’s explanation—that the money was in return for the advice he gave Schreiber on a pasta-manufacturing scheme—is, to say the least, implausible, few newspapers reported on Schreiber’s payments to Mulroney. None has pursued the story.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/scandals.html

5. Tunagate: This 1985 fiasco brought down Brian Mulroney's minister of fisheries and oceans and robbed a New Brunswick town of its main employer. The story broke on CBC's The Fifth Estate on Sept. 17, 1985: Fisheries minister John Fraser had overturned an order from his own inspectors and ordered a million cans of StarKist tuna released for sale to the public. The inspectors had said the tuna, packed at the StarKist plant in St. Andrews, N.B., was so badly spoiled that it wasn't even fit to be turned into catfood. The plant's owners had lobbied Fraser to release the cans for sale, saying they might shut the plant if the tuna couldn't be sold.

When the story broke, Fraser said he had sent samples of the tuna to two independent labs for testing, but those labs later said they hadn't finished their tests by the time Fraser decided to release the shipment. Six days after the scandal erupted, Mulroney asked Fraser to resign. In a twist the opposition parties were quick to exploit, Fraser and Mulroney both initially said that Mulroney had known about the original decision to release the tuna. The two men later said the prime minister had not known until the affair became public.

Fraser eventually went on to a new job, becoming Speaker in the House of Commons, but the 400 StarKist workers in St. Andrews weren't so lucky. The plant was shuttered after the company's market share slumped, and they were thrown out of work.

6. All the other Mulroney ministers: Pity poor Brian Mulroney. The Progressive Conservative prime minister lost an average of one cabinet minister to allegations of wrongdoing during each year of his 1984-1993 reign.

First there was Robert Coates, who stepped down as defence minister in 1985 after it was revealed that he had visited a strip club in West Germany while in that country on official business. Communications Minister Marcel Masse left over an alleged violation of the Canada Elections Act (he was later exonerated), followed closely by John Fraser.

In 1986, Minister of Regional Industrial Expansion Sinclair Stevens stepped down because of conflict of interest allegations related to a $2.6-million loan to a Stevens family company. André Bissonnette, the minister of state for transport, resigned in 1987 while the RCMP investigated his alleged involvement in land speculation. Roch La Salle, who served Mulroney in the public works, and supply and services portfolios, left cabinet the same year after being charged with demanding a bribe and accepting money from businesses looking for government favours. The charges were later dropped.

Conflict of interest allegations involving a personal loan felled Supply and Services Minister Michel Coté in 1988. Bernard Valcourt stepped down in 1989 after pleading guilty to an impaired driving offence. In 1990, current Quebec Premier Jean Charest had to leave his two posts as minister for fitness and amateur sport, and minister for youth after trying to talk to a judge about an ongoing case.

And, finally, in 1991, Housing Minister Alan Redway offered his resignation after being charged over joking about having a gun while boarding a flight at the Ottawa airport. (Not a cabinet minister but equally embarrassing to the Conservatives was Quebec MP Michel Gravel, who in 1986 was charged with 50 counts of fraud and influence peddling. He later pleaded guilty to 15 charges, paid a $50,000 fine and served four months in jail.

(Not a cabinet minister but equally embarrassing to the Conservatives was Quebec MP Michel Gravel, who in 1986 was charged with 50 counts of fraud and influence peddling.

8. Airbus: Long out of politics, former Progressive Conservative prime minister Brian Mulroney was dragged back into the public arena, thanks to the RCMP and a lobbyist called Karlheinz Schreiber. As part of an investigation into Schreiber's role in an alleged plot involving secret commissions and kickbacks in deals for the purchase of airplanes and helicopters, the federal Justice Department sent a letter to the Swiss government. The 1995 letter alleged that Mulroney was also involved in the arrangement, taking kickbacks on the sale of Airbus planes to Air Canada during his time as prime minister.

When the letter became public, Mulroney sued the federal government for defamation, seeking $50 million in damages. Two years later, he settled for $2 million in legal costs and an apology from Ottawa. The RCMP finally ended its criminal investigation against Mulroney in April 2003, citing a lack of evidence.

Bre-X Scandal Ring a Bell?

Canadian Content: A Valuable Source of Information Too...

 

[badboy]

Scandals from Mulroney's Government:

Some Noteworthy Allegations

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/cana-f19.shtml

And what of the revelation that Karlheinz Schreiber, a German-Canadian arms dealer whom the German government is seeking to extradite, paid former Progressive Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney $300,000—in cash, in hotel rooms—shortly after he left office? Although Mulroney’s explanation—that the money was in return for the advice he gave Schreiber on a pasta-manufacturing scheme—is, to say the least, implausible, few newspapers reported on Schreiber’s payments to Mulroney. None has pursued the story.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/scandals.html

5. Tunagate: This 1985 fiasco brought down Brian Mulroney's minister of fisheries and oceans and robbed a New Brunswick town of its main employer. The story broke on CBC's The Fifth Estate on Sept. 17, 1985: Fisheries minister John Fraser had overturned an order from his own inspectors and ordered a million cans of StarKist tuna released for sale to the public. The inspectors had said the tuna, packed at the StarKist plant in St. Andrews, N.B., was so badly spoiled that it wasn't even fit to be turned into catfood. The plant's owners had lobbied Fraser to release the cans for sale, saying they might shut the plant if the tuna couldn't be sold.

When the story broke, Fraser said he had sent samples of the tuna to two independent labs for testing, but those labs later said they hadn't finished their tests by the time Fraser decided to release the shipment. Six days after the scandal erupted, Mulroney asked Fraser to resign. In a twist the opposition parties were quick to exploit, Fraser and Mulroney both initially said that Mulroney had known about the original decision to release the tuna. The two men later said the prime minister had not known until the affair became public.

Fraser eventually went on to a new job, becoming Speaker in the House of Commons, but the 400 StarKist workers in St. Andrews weren't so lucky. The plant was shuttered after the company's market share slumped, and they were thrown out of work.

6. All the other Mulroney ministers: Pity poor Brian Mulroney. The Progressive Conservative prime minister lost an average of one cabinet minister to allegations of wrongdoing during each year of his 1984-1993 reign.

First there was Robert Coates, who stepped down as defence minister in 1985 after it was revealed that he had visited a strip club in West Germany while in that country on official business. Communications Minister Marcel Masse left over an alleged violation of the Canada Elections Act (he was later exonerated), followed closely by John Fraser.

In 1986, Minister of Regional Industrial Expansion Sinclair Stevens stepped down because of conflict of interest allegations related to a $2.6-million loan to a Stevens family company. André Bissonnette, the minister of state for transport, resigned in 1987 while the RCMP investigated his alleged involvement in land speculation. Roch La Salle, who served Mulroney in the public works, and supply and services portfolios, left cabinet the same year after being charged with demanding a bribe and accepting money from businesses looking for government favours. The charges were later dropped.

Conflict of interest allegations involving a personal loan felled Supply and Services Minister Michel Coté in 1988. Bernard Valcourt stepped down in 1989 after pleading guilty to an impaired driving offence. In 1990, current Quebec Premier Jean Charest had to leave his two posts as minister for fitness and amateur sport, and minister for youth after trying to talk to a judge about an ongoing case.

And, finally, in 1991, Housing Minister Alan Redway offered his resignation after being charged over joking about having a gun while boarding a flight at the Ottawa airport. (Not a cabinet minister but equally embarrassing to the Conservatives was Quebec MP Michel Gravel, who in 1986 was charged with 50 counts of fraud and influence peddling. He later pleaded guilty to 15 charges, paid a $50,000 fine and served four months in jail.

(Not a cabinet minister but equally embarrassing to the Conservatives was Quebec MP Michel Gravel, who in 1986 was charged with 50 counts of fraud and influence peddling.

8. Airbus: Long out of politics, former Progressive Conservative prime minister Brian Mulroney was dragged back into the public arena, thanks to the RCMP and a lobbyist called Karlheinz Schreiber. As part of an investigation into Schreiber's role in an alleged plot involving secret commissions and kickbacks in deals for the purchase of airplanes and helicopters, the federal Justice Department sent a letter to the Swiss government. The 1995 letter alleged that Mulroney was also involved in the arrangement, taking kickbacks on the sale of Airbus planes to Air Canada during his time as prime minister.

When the letter became public, Mulroney sued the federal government for defamation, seeking $50 million in damages. Two years later, he settled for $2 million in legal costs and an apology from Ottawa. The RCMP finally ended its criminal investigation against Mulroney in April 2003, citing a lack of evidence.

Bre-X Scandal Ring a Bell?

Canadian Content: A Valuable Source of Information Too...

Yeah those are huge compared to what the Liberals are up to their eyeballs in.

stripjoint hahahahahah

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Why Conservatives Sho

Why don't you ask Chuck Guite who set up the system for the sponsorship scandal.

Blue, I'm not playing games. You can drop the half-assed accusations.

 

[Jo Canadian]

8O Ack! And here I've thought I repressed the Mulroney years.

Actually I just finished going through Raesides book: The Demented Decade It's mostly cartoons (big suprise) but it covers the end of Trudeau all the way to the beginning of Chretchin* and of course covers the Mulroney years.


*pardon the spelling

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Yeah those are huge compared to what the Liberals are up to their eyeballs in.

stripjoint hahahahahah

Bre-X was a scandal worth $6.6 Billion stolen from investors to be enjoyed by the friends of Mr. Mulroney...many people were financially ruined, and there were a few suicides because of it...

As the the strip club fiasco, in 1985, it was enough to cause a Cabinet Minister to step down...seems that it was a pretty serious offence for the time...

Of course it could also be said, that the corruption of the Mulroney Conservatives has set a precedent of tolerance that the Liberals are currently enjoying...

 

[badboy]

Yeah those are huge compared to what the Liberals are up to their eyeballs in.

stripjoint hahahahahah

Bre-X was a scandal worth $6.6 Billion stolen from investors to be enjoyed by the friends of Mr. Mulroney...many people were financially ruined, and there were a few suicides because of it...

As the the strip club fiasco, in 1985, it was enough to cause a Cabinet Minister to step down...seems that it was a pretty serious offence for the time...

Of course it could also be said, that the corruption of the Mulroney Conservatives has set a precedent of tolerance that the Liberals are currently enjoying...

Bre-X had nothing to do with the Conservatives.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Why Conservatives Sho

The strip club thing wasn't just that he visited...he took sensitive papers in with him according to most accounts. There was also a lot of talk that he had a liason with a stripper. It all kind of disappeared when he resigned.

Tunagate sounds minor too...until you consider that senior elected officials were risking the health of the Canadian public so their buddies could turn a profit.

For those who think that it's a different government...Harper worked in the backrooms for Mulroney. He was a fairly senior policy advisor and had dealings with these people every day.

 

[damngrumpy]

Cadman did save the Tories who would have been hammered if they went to the polls. I thing the Liberals and the NDP set them up pretty good actually. Harper took every piece of bait they threw out there.
The only chance Harper had was to have an election now and the time has passed. No matter what the Conservatives say now, it will be pointed out they made a deal with seperatists. Belinda who I believe will be re elected, will take the campain trail by storm, pointing out Harper is an extremist whether he is or not does'nt matter. Conservative won't believe it but others will and the Tories should reserve their hotel now for their, new new new and fresh start with a new leader.
In fact I believe if the Liberals win the next election, the Conservatives won't come to power for a couple of decades. The Liberals, NDP and Bloc will all make gains and the Harper Conservatives also known as Reformers in Tory clothing, will be relegated to a rump force in Parliament.
Anyone see the latest polls, the Liberals are back in front, and no one really cares about what the old government did, Martin has done an end around poor Harper, opening the way for the NDP to suck up some of those old Conservative seats

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Why Conservatives Sho

And the NDP will pick up some of those seats on the prairies. People are mad enough at the Liberals that they won't be able to split the vote this time, so the ones the Conservatives won by less than 5 points last time are as good as gone.

 

[badboy]

Re: RE: Why Conservatives Should Thank Chuck Cadman

Cadman did save the Tories who would have been hammered if they went to the polls. I thing the Liberals and the NDP set them up pretty good actually. Harper took every piece of bait they threw out there.
The only chance Harper had was to have an election now and the time has passed. No matter what the Conservatives say now, it will be pointed out they made a deal with seperatists. Belinda who I believe will be re elected, will take the campain trail by storm, pointing out Harper is an extremist whether he is or not does'nt matter. Conservative won't believe it but others will and the Tories should reserve their hotel now for their, new new new and fresh start with a new leader.
In fact I believe if the Liberals win the next election, the Conservatives won't come to power for a couple of decades. The Liberals, NDP and Bloc will all make gains and the Harper Conservatives also known as Reformers in Tory clothing, will be relegated to a rump force in Parliament.
Anyone see the latest polls, the Liberals are back in front, and no one really cares about what the old government did, Martin has done an end around poor Harper, opening the way for the NDP to suck up some of those old Conservative seats

Small problem, she won't get re-elected, i have lots of buds that live in her riding, she's not getting back in. They all hate what she did.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Why Conservatives Sho

Funny, everybody I've talked to from the entire GTA thinks she did the right thing.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Bre-X had nothing to do with the Conservatives.

True...but a former Conservative PM figures prominently in the scandal...and is still advisor to Peter Munk of Barrick Gold Corporation, who is believed to have been one of the orchestrators of the Bre-X scandal...

A Peter MacKay Fansite: With Endorsement by Peter Munk

If I look hard enough, I'll bet I could uncover Conservative links to corruption that would dwarf the Sponsorship scandal looting...

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Why Conservatives Sho

You don't have to look that hard, Vanni. If you buy a book called, "On the Take" it covers the Mulroney years. After that all you have to do is follow the names. As new names pop up, just look who their backers are.

If the Liberals are like the Mafia, as the Conservatives insist they are, then the Conservatives are like the Russian mob. They are just a little more brutal, a little more greedy, and a little more frightening.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Why Conservatives Sho

Why don't you ask Chuck Guite who set up the system for the sponsorship scandal.

Blue, I'm not playing games. You can drop the half-assed accusations.

I don't do anything half assed, and what have I accused you of?

And you wouldn't mean Chuck Guite who named Liberals in the liberal Adscam scandal, would you? The one who is going to trial in the fall for being up to his neck in the liberal adscam scandal, would you?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Why Conservatives Sho

If the Liberals are like the Mafia, as the Conservatives insist they are, then the Conservatives are like the Russian mob. They are just a little more brutal, a little more greedy, and a little more frightening.

...and a little more likely to sue to push an on-going investigation over-budget... :lol:

 

[Derry McKinney]

And you wouldn't mean Chuck Guite who named Liberals in the liberal Adscam scandal, would you? The one who is going to trial in the fall for being up to his neck in the liberal adscam scandal, would you?

Yes I would. According to his testimony, which you conservtive types have been taking as gospel, the Mulroney government was even worse than the Liberals.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Why Conservatives Sho

And you wouldn't mean Chuck Guite who named Liberals in the liberal Adscam scandal, would you? The one who is going to trial in the fall for being up to his neck in the liberal adscam scandal, would you?

"You won't rat on them, you won't rat on us," Dingwall said

 

[Scape]

I was looking at the replies to the original article and found one to hit the mark:

commentor: Banquos ghost
posted: 3 Days Ago
I've been ruminating on the process of the Gomery Commission and I've come to the rather discomfiting conclusion that this is what an open and accountable government would likely look like when the inevitable periodic scandals strike. Which they inevitably will in any human endeavour.

Think back.

Fraser tables her report that includes the information that there appear to be irregularities in the Sponsorship Program. She's immediately instructed to look deeper. She eventually submits a report to Cabinet with the damning information in it that several hundred millions of dollars are unaccounted for.

In a not so open and accountable government the report would have been held in Cabinet, or sent to an obscure committee for review.

Instead, the Martin government presents it in the House and then before anyone is really even ranting full steam ahead Martin arranges for a Commission of Inquiry to be set up with all the requisite powers and authority it needs to compel testimony.

Then when Gomery, a political opponent of many years standing who was once Mulroney's Chief of Staff, is chosen to head the Commission, Martin doesn't dispute the choice. Chretien and now Gagliano have challenged the choice but not Martin.

Martin testifies under oath as does Chretien, which has never before happened in our history.

Martin has also repeatedly and publicly stated on multiple occasions that an election will be called within 30 days of Gomery's final report.

Now reflect on the responses to recent scandalous happenings here at home where we have the most open and accountable government in the country, according to Campbell. Reflect on the responses to the scandals of the Mulroney years, the stonewalling, the denials, the refusals to investigate.

As unpleasant as the Gomery experience is proving to be it may well be an something we are going to have to get accustomed to if our desire for openness and accountability is sincere.

There has never been a system of government that was impermeable to fraud. It has always happened and will always happen.

The appropriate yardstick is not whether it happens but what is done in response when it is discovered.

So far I have no reason to believe that the Martin government's response is anything other than appropriate. The RCMP were immediately called in; charges are laid, more may yet follow and trial dates are set; the investigations continue. The slow wheels of justice are grinding.

As I said at the outset this conclusion discomfits me. Like many I want to blame and punish someone right now. But if what we really want is openness and accountability from our governments then we are going to have to learn to curb our mob responses. We are going to have to learn to accept that the process of investigation takes quite a lot of time and money. We are going to have to learn to accept that Commissions of Inquiry are not Courts of Law. We are going to have to learn to accept that guilt in court must be proven beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt and that those accused are innocent until proven otherwise.

We won't like to have to learn those things. They carry no visceral satisfaction. They leave us hanging for too long. They have no smell of blood.

Openness and accountability are inevitably going to mean that we learn much more about the doings and goings on in our political and governance structures than we do now. Much of it we will not like at all.

But unless we let it play out, unless we accept the process, slow and frustrating as it may be, fewer and fewer politicians are going to take us at our word that we actually want openness and accountability for their own sakes. It will appear that we only want those things so we can lash someone to a stake, not because they are valuable goals in and of themselves. And they will proceed to mouth the words with no intention of following them up with actions.

Gomery has to play out, right to the bitter, aggravating, judicial end, whatever it may be. The citizens of Canada accepting any foreshortening of the process, would put expressions of support for openness and accountability into a jaundiced, jaded light which may never again brighten to full sun.

Blue, in reference to Brian and Scandals. Canada has been up for sale since 1988 and the Liberals join in on that and went even further. I hate the both for what they have done. As far as I am concerned the whole lot should be dragged out into the street shot and pissed on and not necessarily in that order. Harper is very much Mulroney spawn and you could be the pope himself you still wouldn't be able to convince me of the 'good deeds' that he will do, I will never give scum like that the benefit of the doubt. Canada needs leaders with vision, not someone who will gladly sell this country out from under us.Don't believe he will do it? Read this article. Then tell me thatthe CFR task force, that has Harpers ear, will not be implemented. There are allies and then there are collaborators, fortress America will destroy what we have as a country.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Why Conservatives Sho

The really frightening thing about all of this deep integration is that they are still pushing for it so hard even as the US is falling apart.

 

[bluealberta]

Vanni made several accusations a while back. So in the Mulroney government:

One minister steps down for visiting a strip club.
Another left over allegations of which he was exonerated.
Two others stepped down over allegations.
Another stepped down to charges of bribery which were dropped.
Another stepped down due to conflict of interest.
Another stepped down due to talking to a judge.
Another offered to step down over a joke in bad taste.
Another member, not a minister, was charged with other offences.
Mulroney was exonerated in a court of law, and the criminal investigation was dropped due to a lack of evidence.

Basically a couple of them may been wrong, but the common thread here is exoneration, lack of evidence, and charges dropped.

So I am sorry, but if you want to try and tell anyone that the Mulroney government was worse than Chretien/Martin, it just won't wash. At least the conservatives had enough ethics to step down while investigations were going on. The Liberals? Not a friggin chance, it is just cover your ass time, and carry on, because the idiot voters in eastern canada will still elect them.

Just because the Liberals didn't step down doesn't mean they were not guilty. It just meant they have no integrity or ethics.