Why Catholic isn't Christian.

[Cliffy]

he did both. he had to be complete saviour!

istherehelp,

Is there sheep? Jesus may or may not have been a real person but Christ was human construct borrowed from many ancient mythologies including East Indians, Egyptian and Persian religions. Watch Zeitgeist on youtube. It is a good start. There are literally hundreds of books on the subject but the most authoritative is the works of Joseph Campbell, the world's formost authority on world mythology.

 

[istherehelp]

istherehelp,

Is there sheep? Jesus may or may not have been a real person but Christ was human construct borrowed from many ancient mythologies including East Indians, Egyptian and Persian religions. Watch Zeitgeist on youtube. It is a good start. There are literally hundreds of books on the subject but the most authoritative is the works of Joseph Campbell, the world's formost authority on world mythology.

what are you saying?

 

[Spade]

Gawd, I wish I knew what a Xian was! You see, Jesus was an observant Jew!

 

[Cliffy]

what are you saying?

The bible is a political construct created by Constantine for his own political agenda. Christ is a state of being that anyone can achieve. There is no proof that Jesus existed. All of the stories about Jesus were born of more ancient myths from older cultures. Christianity has no basis in any reality. It is a cult based on fiction. You can start with the book: The Gnostic Gospels that reported to be the gospels according to the other eight apostles including Mary Magdalene. Sorry, I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but you belief system is a sham and the bible is a hoax.

 

[captain morgan]

The bible is a political construct created by Constantine for his own political agenda.There is no proof that Jesus existed. All of the stories about Jesus were born of more ancient myths from older cultures.Christianity has no basis in any reality. It is a cult based on fiction. You can start with the book: The Gnostic Gospels that reported to be the gospels according to the other eight apostles including Mary Magdalene. Sorry, I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but you belief system is a sham and the bible is a hoax.

Cliffy,

You're really a hoot. You make these grandiose statements yet have nothing other than your distaste for Christianity to back-up your baseless statements.... What a compelling argument.

Yeah, sure, you're a 'former' catholic or christian or whatever you claim as your past and apparently that is more than enough to declare that you're an expert on the subject and then employ those shaky and untenable personal assumptions to castigate an entire group of people over thousands of years in order to support your personal belief system.

Is your personal belief in the vague description of quantum physics, metaphysics (or whatever amorphous ideological belief system that you subscribe to) so fragile and puny that the only manner in which you can validate yourself is by denigrating other ideologies?

Give it a rest man.

 

[Liberalman]

Catholics were the first truly organized religion after the death of Jesus.

Christians were rogue Catholics that did not want to follow the rules and wanted power. This is why there are thousands and growing Chistian churches all over the world.

With todays internet it is more easier to create your own Christian church.

All you need is a web site, the Bible and a good story like you saw a dog that walked funny that urinated against a wall and when you approached the stained wall you saw the face of Jesus and then you ask for donations to do the work of the Lord and your in business because there are a lot of Christians that are searching for the truth and are willing pay you to save them.

The church business is supported by the government by giving you a tax free zone.

Once the government get rid of the tax excemptions for churches then all these fly by nighters will disappear but this will never happen because politicians want to be re-elected.

 

[ironsides]

To quote a line from Heinrich Heine: "Christ rode on an ass, but now asses ride on Christ."

 

[Cliffy]

Cliffy,

You're really a hoot. You make these grandiose statements yet have nothing other than your distaste for Christianity to back-up your baseless statements.... What a compelling argument.

Yeah, sure, you're a 'former' catholic or christian or whatever you claim as your past and apparently that is more than enough to declare that you're an expert on the subject and then employ those shaky and untenable personal assumptions to castigate an entire group of people over thousands of years in order to support your personal belief system.

Is your personal belief in the vague description of quantum physics, metaphysics (or whatever amorphous ideological belief system that you subscribe to) so fragile and puny that the only manner in which you can validate yourself is by denigrating other ideologies?

Give it a rest man.

I posted a partial list of books on another thread that not only debunks the bible but shows alternative views. What I believe about is irrelevant to anybody else. But when people can come on a public forum and condemn others to burn in a lake of fire for eternity, to condemn the actions of others (homosexuals. liberals and women who make the very difficult decision to abort their fetus, etc.) based on a book that has been proven by history and by science to be fraudulent, it is everybody's duty who knows the truth to expose those people and their belief as fraudulent. If they have a right to come on here spouting hatred and making false statements and accusations about others, then what right do you have to tell me to shut up.

 

[Kramerica04]

Questions/Comments for the author and people who've commented:

1. If you're going to reference history, at least make sure your facts are straight. The sacraments, which includes confession, were around before Christianity was made the religion of the Roman Empire.

2. Why would Catholics, the group the compiled the bible, write a book bashing themselves/calling themselves wrong?

3. If youre going to quote scripture please stay in context, single verses of the bible molded to fit your own agenda is wrong. In your quotes you are taking things Jesus said to Pharisees, not stuff he said to Catholics. You're pretending that he said it about confession, praying to saints, etc. He didn't.

4. The letter to Timothy starts out addressing intercessions. When Catholics ASK MARY TO INTERCEDE, this is what he is refering too. How can you take a letter where it mentions intercessions and then quote it saying intercession is wrong?

5. If salvation is in Christ alone, then why are you quoting St. Paul, Timothy, etc? They aren't Christ. By the way, the letters in the back of bibles are early encyclicles....the Pope's still do it today.

6. If the old testament doesn't matter why is it in the bible? The old testament has a ton of stuff in it that predicts and relates to the coming of Christ....plus the ten commandments. How can you have a new covenant without an old one? The Old Testament is really important.

7. Catholic's don't believe that only priests and the church forgive sins, they believe Christ forgives sins. Christ died/took on our sins so that we can go before the father...that's the whole point behind the Eucharist....which I'm suprised that you tried to mention Catholicism without talking about the Eucharist since Catholicism IS the Eucharist.

8. I don't get your theology here, if we were all saved the day Christ died, does that mean I can live my life as a mass murder and then on my last day of living, say, "I'm sorry. I believe in Christ" and none of the murders I've comitted matter? If your answer is, "No, you have to actually be sorry and repent." Then why is confession bad? Confession is a way of saying you're sorry. There are lots of quotes in the bible that say to tell your sins to one another, and a penance is a way of showing you will do better. Think of it this way, Sin is caused by feelings of anger, hurt, frustration, guilt, etc. Sin causes feelings of anger, hurt, frustration, guilt, etc. If we keep all of it inside of us, than our guilt fuels more guilt. If we get it out. We free ourselves from it. Confession is extremely healthy. Keeping it inside is extremely unhealthy. You can't just point to lovey dovey quotes and say they are important and other quotes aren't. You need to also point out the quotes Jesus says about sinning, about being thrown into eternal fire, etc. Sin is important. Repentence is important. Confession is important.

9. Ripping the priesthood and then saying that "Christ is the only one should imitate" is hypocritical. Priests are the ultimate imitation of Christ, they take bread, break it, and live a life of complete celibacy (like Christ does in the bible). They forgive sins. They shepard the flock. If imitating Christ is the right thing to do, then how is the priesthood wrong?

10. If you can find all of the answers in the bible, then how do we address important issues in todays society that aren't in the bible like contraception or human cloning? There is more to being a christian than molding bible to your personal beliefs. If everyone took the "I'm going to take bible quotes and mold them to my personal beliefs" stand, than we would have quite a fragmented Christia.....oh wait thats protestanism.

11. You have the rosary completely wrong, we aren't doing it because you need a certain number of prayers to get to heaven. Its called a mantra. It's repetition that is supposed to take you deeper into prayer. It's like repeating the words Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, or Jesus help me, Jesus help me, Jesus help me.

12. The wedding at Cana, even if Jesus is angry like you say (which is disputable), he still did the miracle. You can say all you want, but th results are in our favor. What about when Jesus is on the cross and he tells John to take Mary as his mother and tells Mary to take John as her son? Are we supposed to ignore that?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Kramerica04, Welcome to Canadian Content Forums!!!!

 

[Kramerica04]

hahaha, that's really funny. I enjoyed the cartoon.

 

[Kramerica04]

I posted a partial list of books on another thread that not only debunks the bible but shows alternative views. What I believe about is irrelevant to anybody else. But when people can come on a public forum and condemn others to burn in a lake of fire for eternity, to condemn the actions of others (homosexuals. liberals and women who make the very difficult decision to abort their fetus, etc.) based on a book that has been proven by history and by science to be fraudulent, it is everybody's duty who knows the truth to expose those people and their belief as fraudulent. If they have a right to come on here spouting hatred and making false statements and accusations about others, then what right do you have to tell me to shut up.

Right,

So let me get this straight.......Jesus never existed. It was actually two brothers that were fishing in a boat one day and then decided, "HEY, I HAVE AN IDEA!!!! LETS CREATE THIS FAKE MESSIAH!!!! WE WILL USE THAT CARPENTERS KID FROM NAZARETH. OKAY, OKAY, OKAY, THIS WILL BE GREAT. WE WILL PLANT GUYS ALL AROUND THE CITY WHO AREN'T REALLY CRIPLED OR DEAF OR BLIND.....BUT THEY WILL PRETEND TO BE. AND WE WILL HAVE THIS JESUS/FAKE MESSIAH GUY WALK AROUND AND PRETEND TO HEAL THEM. WE WILL STAGE ALL OF THESE FAKE MIRACLES. AND WE WILL DO IT TO THE POINT THAT PEOPLE GET SO MAD THAT THEY KILL HIM. THEN WHEN THEY DO, WE WILL STEAL HIS BODY AND TELL EVERYONE HE HAS RISEN!!!! IT WILL BE SOOOOOOO AWESOME. AND THEN AFTER, WE WILL KEEP THE LIE GOING UNTIL I GET BURNED AT THE STAKE, YOU GET YOUR EYES RIPPED OUT, AND YOU GET LITERALLY PULLED APART. AND THE ENTIRE TIME WE WON'T GIVE UP THE SECRET......PINKY SWEAR....DOUBLE PINKY SWEAR......OH THIS WILL BE SOOOOOOOO COOOL.

Never in the history of Christianity has one person exposed the lie.......you're the one who is unrealistic.

 

[AnnaG]

Actually there were about 20 people named Jesus about the time the Bible says the "holy" one was.
But it's a bit odd that we can find artifacts and information about Tutankhamun and Ramses, Confucius, LaoTsu, etc. but not a whisper about what this Jesus Christ looked like, what music he liked, a hairbrush, a carpenter's carving tool ...... nothing. And the odd part is how a guy as famous as that with 12 lieutenants and a horde of lepers, idolaters, etc. following the guy around, didn't leave ANYTHING.
For the love of Pete, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote about Sherlock Holmes so well, people thought Holmes was real. All we are left with about him, though, is stories. Sound familiar?
And a big differrence between the two of these "people" is that Sherlock was written about a heck of a lot more realistically and the stories were well-written. The Bible is a mass of ambiguities and was atrociously written.

 

[coldstream]

I posted a partial list of books on another thread that not only debunks the bible but shows alternative views. What I believe about is irrelevant to anybody else. But when people can come on a public forum and condemn others to burn in a lake of fire for eternity, to condemn the actions of others (homosexuals. liberals and women who make the very difficult decision to abort their fetus, etc.) based on a book that has been proven by history and by science to be fraudulent, it is everybody's duty who knows the truth to expose those people and their belief as fraudulent. If they have a right to come on here spouting hatred and making false statements and accusations about others, then what right do you have to tell me to shut up.

Good Grief, cliffy, you're hopeless! :roll:

or on the verge of a major conversion, like Saul on the Road to Damascus, to persecute Christians. You might be a famous Saint in the making...

uhh.. maybe not. ;-)

 

[MHz]

So let me get this straight.......Jesus never existed.

That would make Christians the most miserable (delusional) of men, closely followed by our cousins, the 12 Tribes).
The contingency is to do everything called an abomination in the hopes of enriching your own life and that of your distant generations (at the expense of some of those currently living). If He never existed then He never rose from the dead. That would mean He would never answer prayers in any fashion.
God provided a book as 'proof'. Understanding what is written in that book is not required as being part of any 'proof'.
Only a fanatic would ponder the possibility of a relationship in the # of times Jesus was left alone in the Garden (after asking His friends not to leave Him alone) and the same # of times that they did not recognize that He had 'returned' after being 'away in the grave because of appearance. At that time a reversal took place, before then 'the world in general' was waiting for one of the two events that were determined to happen back in the start of Genesis.
One down...one to go.

One of the greatest 'crimes' attributed to the RCC is very similar to the "what I have against thee" in the very first letter to the Churches in Revelation. They have left their first love. God has been replaced by mortal made symbols, a man (Pope) and all the golden items (idols) and false hopes (anybody called for other than Christ is not going to show up). If they do not return to that first love (the one who can help as given back in Det:something:something).
Getting your candlestick destroyed is not the best way to meet God, Great Tribulation is wrath from above (God), that is worse than Tribulation (Satan's wrath against man just prior to Christ's reclaimation of the Earth into the Kingdom of Heaven) and the changes that accompany such a move on a global scale.

 

[AnnaG]

lol
Of course the faithful love to say that proof is not needed. It's one of the best dodges they have. Another is, "God works in mysterious ways". And so on. All designed to avoid tough, analytical questions.

 

[MHz]

Actually there were about 20 people named Jesus about the time the Bible says the "holy" one was.
But it's a bit odd that we can find artifacts and information about Tutankhamun and Ramses, Confucius, LaoTsu, etc. but not a whisper about what this Jesus Christ looked like, what music he liked, a hairbrush, a carpenter's carving tool ...... nothing. And the odd part is how a guy as famous as that with 12 lieutenants and a horde of lepers, idolaters, etc. following the guy around, didn't leave ANYTHING.
For the love of Pete, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote about Sherlock Holmes so well, people thought Holmes was real. All we are left with about him, though, is stories. Sound familiar?
And a big differrence between the two of these "people" is that Sherlock was written about a heck of a lot more realistically and the stories were well-written. The Bible is a mass of ambiguities and was atrociously written.

M't:12:39:
But he answered and said unto them,
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;
and there shall no sign be given to it,
but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

The only event yet to play out is the time the two witnesses of Christ lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem, 3 1/2 days, the 2nd half of that day is wrath from above...then quiet, the the beginning of true authority.

Re:10:5:
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
Re:10:6:
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever,
who created heaven,
and the things that therein are,
and the earth,
and the things that therein are,
and the sea,
and the things which are therein,
that there should be time no longer:

Re:16:17:
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air;
and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven,
from the throne,
saying,
It is done.

Wouldn't most of the 'artifacts' be bones that were healed in a manner not available for that period of time. Surely the old man's withered hand would show some 'stresses and strains' in an examination of the bones of that same hand. All you have to do is find it or some other bone that has the same signs. You cannot have proof of God and not have God 'running things'. People don't die when God is in control, anything less is not being with God.

God gave a description of Him, that is why there are so many different attempts today, none of which follow the verse below..

Isa:53:2:
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant,
and as a root out of a dry ground:
he hath no form nor comeliness;
and when we shall see him,
there is no beauty that we should desire him.

 

[Kramerica04]

lol
Of course the faithful love to say that proof is not needed. It's one of the best dodges they have. Another is, "God works in mysterious ways". And so on. All designed to avoid tough, analytical questions.

Actually, arguing that there is no proof of Jesus' existence is completely false. There are Roman court records of Jesus' existence. There are Roman accounts of all of the Christian martyrs deaths. There is 2000 years of proof of Christs existence....you just don't want to look for it. It's a historical fact that Jesus existed. The new testament and parts of the old testament that go through the twelve tribes, and jewish descendents are some of the most historically accurate books on the planet.....not to mention that there aren't welll kept documents of anyone from that time period.....but hey, I can't get someone who doesn't want to believe, to believe. I'm sorry you can't look under a microscope and see Jesus. You can see laminin though.....mrs. biology.

 

[Kramerica04]

Lets be honest, people run from Christianity because it has morality. People who don't want to have morals are afraid of christianity and therefore attack it...."Lets take a group of people who preach helping others, love, and charity and attack them" or "lets attack the largest charitable organization o the planet" or "lets attack the founders of the university system and hospitals".....classless....I'm sure these "atheists" are the same people arguing that kids in third world countries need food, certain groups need rights, help people with aids, etc. the entire time forgetting where all morality in our society comes from.......christianity. It's hypocritical and moronic. To be athesist is to cease believing in all of the morality in our society.

 

[AnnaG]

M't:12:39:
But he answered and said unto them,
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;
and there shall no sign be given to it,
but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

"An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;
and there shall no sign be given to it," Sounds like another dodge to avoid more scrutiny.

The only event yet to play out is the time the two witnesses of Christ lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem, 3 1/2 days, the 2nd half of that day is wrath from above...then quiet, the the beginning of true authority.

Re:10:5:
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
Re:10:6:
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever,
who created heaven,
and the things that therein are,
and the earth,
and the things that therein are,
and the sea,
and the things which are therein,
that there should be time no longer:

Re:16:17:
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air;
and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven,
from the throne,
saying,
It is done.

??

Wouldn't most of the 'artifacts' be bones that were healed in a manner not available for that period of time. Surely the old man's withered hand would show some 'stresses and strains' in an examination of the bones of that same hand. All you have to do is find it or some other bone that has the same signs. You cannot have proof of God and not have God 'running things'. People don't die when God is in control, anything less is not being with God.

Surely there were more people about that had been cricufied. For instance the two that were purportedly crucified and hung next to this Jesus. Do bones have the names of their owners inscribed on them? That's just funny as all get out.

God gave a description of Him, that is why there are so many different attempts today, none of which follow the verse below..
Isa:53:2:
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant,
and as a root out of a dry ground:
he hath no form nor comeliness;
and when we shall see him,
there is no beauty that we should desire him.

So your Jesus was an ugly plant with no form? And you forget that people like me think it's foolish to believe something that is its own authority anyway. It'd be like PolPot commenting about himself being a humanitarian.