What's the end game for Crimea?

MHz

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When don't I show up to fuk over your day??

Might as well bet on the sun coming up in the east and you wet your panties over it. You win, no way I can top that level of stupid.


So much for either of you having any indigo traits, lol. They are traits, just not the good kind.
 

Blackleaf

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Do tell, I know Ukraine wanted to join until Putin bribed the leadership to change course back into the Russian sphere

The EU - the only major expansionist empire on the European continent today - blundered into Ukraine, a country it knows little about, and triggered the chain of events leading to the conflict between Europe's two biggest nations.

As Boris Johnson once said: “If you want an example of EU foreign policy making on the hoof, and the EU’s pretensions to be running a defence policy, that have caused real trouble, then look at what has happened in Ukraine.”
 

Twin_Moose

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UK warship in Ukraine 'sends message to Russia'

A Royal Navy warship which has been sent to Ukraine will send a strong message to Russian President Vladimir Putin, the UK's defence secretary says.
HMS Echo was sent into the Black Sea earlier this month, after Russia seized three ships belonging to Ukraine's navy and their crews.
Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson has visited the ship in the port of Odessa.
He said the presence of the British ship shows support for Ukraine in the face of increased Russian aggression.
It will be followed by other warships as part of a more constant British presence, he said.
There are increasing tensions between Russia and Ukraine over access to the area off the coast of Crimea.
Crimea used to be part of an independent Ukraine, but it was annexed by Russia in 2014. The Ukrainians say that Crimea remains their territory.
Mr Williamson paid a pre-Christmas visit to HMS Echo soon after it docked in Odessa on Friday.
He said the ship was there to send a message to President Putin that Britain stands in solidarity with Ukraine.
"What we are saying to Russia, what we are saying to President Putin - they cannot continue to act with no regard or care for international laws or international norms," he said.
The defence secretary made a point of meeting meeting the families of the 24 Ukrainian sailors who are still being held and are now awaiting trial in Moscow.
HMS Echo is not expected to sail through the Kerch Strait near Crimea - close to where the Russian Navy rammed, shot at and seized the three Ukrainian Navy vessels in November.
Moscow has described the Royal Navy vessel - which is used to collect data about the ocean - as a spy ship.
 

MHz

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Did you see the size of the hole in the wall of the 'bridge' of the ship they shot at. Somebody will have needed stitches.

Do they call the one 'the Hood' in private?? I'm pretty sure Putin is smart enough to take out the World Bank in the first shot rather than fuking around with their minions. With that in mind and this being the whole offense how many hyper-sonic missiles is that for a one way mission?? That is 10 of each type btw. Would you send bombers capable of lifting 40 tons each to your new island base in the Caribbean with nothing but fuel in their tanks??

The permanent fate of Crimea was sealed within an hour of the 'Men in Green' becoming the 'crosswalk guards'.
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/...ets-to-crimea-amid-ukraine-tensions-1.6749809
Russia's Ministry of Defense said on Monday it was deploying more than 10 Sukhoi SU-27 and SU-30 fighter jets to Crimea after Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov alleged Ukraine was preparing "a provocation" near Crimea before the end of the year.
The Defense Ministry was cited as saying that the deployment was to the overhauled Belbek air base in Crimea where the fighter jets would be permanently stationed.
Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 and tensions between the two neighbours flared on Nov. 25 after Russia seized three Ukrainian naval vessels and their crews.
 

Curious Cdn

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Did you see the size of the hole in the wall of the 'bridge' of the ship they shot at. Somebody will have needed stitches.
Do they call the one 'the Hood' in private?? I'm pretty sure Putin is smart enough to take out the World Bank in the first shot rather than fuking around with their minions. With that in mind and this being the whole offense how many hyper-sonic missiles is that for a one way mission?? That is 10 of each type btw. Would you send bombers capable of lifting 40 tons each to your new island base in the Caribbean with nothing but fuel in their tanks??
The permanent fate of Crimea was sealed within an hour of the 'Men in Green' becoming the 'crosswalk guards'.
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/...ets-to-crimea-amid-ukraine-tensions-1.6749809
Russia's Ministry of Defense said on Monday it was deploying more than 10 Sukhoi SU-27 and SU-30 fighter jets to Crimea after Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov alleged Ukraine was preparing "a provocation" near Crimea before the end of the year.
The Defense Ministry was cited as saying that the deployment was to the overhauled Belbek air base in Crimea where the fighter jets would be permanently stationed.
Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 and tensions between the two neighbours flared on Nov. 25 after Russia seized three Ukrainian naval vessels and their crews.
Yes, the Russians exhibit a deep need for some lehensraum as their territory is so small and limited and they have nowhere else to grow. It must be claustrophobic being Russian. Who can blame them for requiring the territory of the Ukraine ... and Estonia ... and Latvia ... and Lithuania ... and Azerbajan, Khazakstan, Poland, Armenia, Finland?

It's tough being Russian. Let them have it and no more fuss!
 

MHz

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Good thing they have enough Tundra, we are safe from invasion for the moment, . . . Comrade.


Onto the Golan Heights.
 

Curious Cdn

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Good thing they have enough Tundra, we are safe from invasion for the moment, . . . Comrade.
Onto the Golan Heights.
Yes. Interesting, that.

Israel is essentially a Russian colony with millions of immigrants from the Soviet Union settled there.

This "lebensraum" is contagious.
 

Twin_Moose

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Ukraine says it captured Russian military intelligence hit squad

KIEV (Reuters) - Ukraine's security service SBU said on Wednesday it had captured a Russian military intelligence hit squad responsible for the attempted murder of a Ukrainian military spy in the run-up to a presidential election on Sunday.
The issue of how to deal with Russia, which annexed Crimea in 2014 and backs pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, is prominent ahead of the vote, with incumbent Petro Poroshenko casting himself as the commander-in-chief Ukraine needs to defend the country.
Vasyl Hrytsak, the head of the SBU, the main intelligence agency, told a news conference in Kiev that seven members of the Russian group had been detained and charged and that an eighth person had been detained on Wednesday morning.
Two of the group's members were Russian citizens, said Anatoly Matios, Ukraine's military prosecutor, describing them as staff officers of Russia's GRU military intelligence agency. The other six were Ukrainians.
There was no immediate reaction from Russia's GRU.
The SBU has reported before that it captured groups belonging to Russian special agencies.
"Those detained were involved in the attempted murder of an employee of the Ukrainian defence ministry's intelligence service...in Kiev in April," said Matios, adding the group had planted a bomb beneath the man's car which had gone off prematurely, badly injuring one of the accused.
The SBU released a video of the same incident which showed a man placing the bomb under a car before a big explosion. The video showed a man lying in a hospital bed with part of his right arm missing saying he was Russian and born in Moscow.
 

Twin_Moose

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Potential victory by Ukraine's 'Donald Trump' prompts uncertainty

The very real prospect of a comedian being elected Ukraine's next president on Sunday is nothing to laugh at for many Ukrainians who dream of seeing lost territories restored and their country unified again.
They fear political neophyte Volodymyr Zelensky — who's only political experience is playing Ukraine's president in a TV show — is ill-equipped to handle a tough adversary like Russian President Vladimir Putin.
"During the election, there was basically no room for the Crimea issue — Zelensky says absolutely nothing," said Sergii Mokreniuk, 40, who along with his wife and two children fled their home on the disputed Black Sea peninsula when Russia took over five years ago.
"There is no way to know where Crimea stands in Zelensky's politics."
Canadian-born political analyst Mychailo Wynnyckyj agrees.
"Zelensky is not making any statements about foreign policy that are coherent — in other words, he's presenting himself as a negotiator but he has no experience in negotiation."
The Kitchener, Ont., native is an associate professor at the Kyiv-Mohyla Business School and has lived in Ukraine for 17 years.
"Ukraine is about to elect a Donald Trump — that's the simplest way of putting it," Wynnyckyj told CBC News in an interview.
Wynnyckyj said voters appear poised to take a leap of faith on someone whose politics they know very little about, based only on his fame from being on TV.
"We have an equivalent to the phrase, 'Lock her up,' " a slogan Trump used repeatedly during his successful 2016 campaign against Hillary Clinton for the U.S. presidency, he said.
"It's called 'Lock them up' because he's supposedly fighting corruption but at the end of the day he's not made it clear at all how he plans to do that," said Wynnyckyj.
Zelensky, 41, racked up twice as many votes as President Petro Poroshenko in the first round of the election last month and polls suggest his standing has only improved since then.
In his TV show Servant of the People, once elected as president, Zelensky's character throws himself into the task of cleaning out political deadwood in the government and breaking down the deep connections between the politicians and the country's oligarchs, which is what many Ukrainians say needs to happen in real life.
The closely watched presidential contest has been notable for its many bizarre moments, such as both candidates undergoing public drug and alcohol tests and a boisterous debate Friday night in front of tens of thousands of duelling supporters at an outdoor football stadium.
Zelensky and Poroshenko took turns trading insults and questioning the other's fitness to lead the country.
"How did it turn out that Ukraine is the poorest country with the richest president?" Zelensky taunted Poroshenko, whose chocolate and candy empire has helped make him one of Ukraine's richest people.
Conflict epicentre
Ukraine has been at the epicentre of the West's conflict with Russia since 2014, when the country's pro-Russian president was overthrown in the Maidan uprisings. Soon afterward, Russian troops moved to take over strategic positions in the Crimean peninsula and pro-Russia leaders held a snap annexation vote, which most of the world considered illegal.
The Mokreniuks are among an estimated 30,000 Crimeans who chose to move to other parts of Ukraine rather than live under Russian rule.
Sergii Mokreniuk organized protests and other anti-Russia demonstrations. In response, he said, he was followed by Russian security services. The tires on his car were slashed and, he said, he and his wife received death threats.
"We want to come back to Crimea but we can't," he told CBC News during an interview at a transplanted Crimean restaurant in Ukraine's capital, Kyiv.
His wife, Elmaz, 35, is a Crimean Tatar — a Muslim ethnic group that has historically suffered under Russian rule.
Stalin ordered the deportation of hundreds of thousands of Tatars from Crimea in 1944 and most families weren't allowed to return for several generations until after Ukraine gained its independence in 1991.
"They deported my grandmothers and grandfathers — Russia did this," she said. "This is in [my] genetic memory."
Scarce details
Zelensky, 41, has given few interviews about his plans for governing Ukraine and instead relied mostly on social media commentaries, YouTube commercials and appearances at his comedy events to appeal to voters. He has amassed an impressive 3.5 million followers on Instagram.
In his limited statements on the future of Crimea and the breakaway regions of Donbass and Lughansk in eastern Ukraine, Zelensky has said only that he wants Russia to end its occupation.
The war involving Russian-backed separatists has claimed more than 11,000 lives and prompted more than two million people in the region to flee to Poland, Russia and other regions of Ukraine.
Zelensky has talked about involving the United States and Britain in any future discussions with Russia, but many in Ukraine's government appear to believe nothing will change as long as Putin is in charge in Moscow.
"There's a lot of skepticism, certainly on my part, of whether the keys to peace are in Kyiv or Moscow," said Wynnyckyj, the political analyst.
"Likely they are in Moscow because it's not Kyiv that started this war."
Moscow has poured billions of dollars into Crimea in recent years to help win over the population to Russian rule, including building an expensive bridge to connect with the peninsula.
Worries over Zelensky
Sergii Mokreniuk, who supports Poroshenko, said he fears Russia would take advantage of a rookie president to increase its efforts to destabilize Ukraine.
"If Zelensky wins, I predict Russia's desire to attack Ukraine will greatly increase," he told CBC News. "I fear this scenario the most."
Poroshenko, 53, has made closer ties with NATO — and eventual NATO membership — a key part of his plans for Ukraine's security.
Wynnyckyj, the political analyst, said the Ukrainian president should be given credit for rebuilding Ukraine's army and keeping the conflict in eastern Ukraine from spreading.
However, Poroshenko's campaign for re-election has been weakened by near-constant allegations of bribery and corruption and by him being part of the oligarch class many Ukrainians feel needs to be tamed.
"People are dissatisfied with the economic situation," said Wynnyckyj. "The vote driver is domestic policy."
Allies could be nervous
However, Wynnyckyj said Ukraine's Western allies, particularly Canada, have reason to be nervous about the country's potential change in direction.
Canada has been at the forefront of many initiatives to improve democracy and fight corruption in Ukraine. Militarily, it's also an important partner in the NATO training mission outside Lvyv, which has helped improve the qualifications of more than 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers.
The concern, said Wynnyckyj, isn't that Ukraine will undergo a radical pivot towards Russia, but rather that a highly polarized electorate may turn on Zelensky if he's unable to deliver his promise of quickly improving the economy.
"Large urban centres are voting en mass for Poroshenko while rural areas are voting for Zelensky. Those people will become dissatisfied with him very shortly — and when that happens we have additional civil unrest.
"That's something that really worries me."
Sergii Mokreniuk now calls Ukraine's capital his home and works for its government as a senior official in its "Ministry of Temporary Occupied Territories and Internally Displaced People of Ukraine."
Among his duties is formulating the sanctions list of Russian officials involved in Crimea and foreign companies that conduct business there. After Ukraine's political leaders approve the list, it's circulated to other Western countries and helps determine which Russian individuals and entities face travel and business restrictions.
"We need to work hard every day if we want to live in Crimea again," he said.
And if Zelensky wins?
"Whoever is the president, I work for Ukraine, for Crimea and for Crimeans."
 

White_Unifier

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Feb 21, 2017
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So we still don't know what the end game is. Sanctioning individuals is fine, but it appears unsuccessful. Ukraine should make a decision. Either call fora military campaign against Russia or give Ukraine up. But enough of pointless sanctions.
 

White_Unifier

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Feb 21, 2017
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Bahahaha Ukraine take on the bear head on, good one WU, gotta play the long game and enforce the sanctions

Ukraine could ask NATO. After all, NATI sanctions.

What long game? Russia has already adapted by developing trade relations with other States. The sanctions still hurt Russia, but Russia knows they hurt us just as much. Putin ain't stupid. He knows that no matter how ee look at it shirt of NATO putting boots on the ground, Russia has Crimea in the bag.
 

Twin_Moose

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UN sanctions, they are not in NATO, but NATO are supporting them through training and defensive weapons, Crimea will be used as a pawn that I agree
 

Curious Cdn

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This whole crisis accelerated because Ukraine was on the verge of joining NATO and the Russians moved to stop it, gambling correctly that NATO would avoid a military confrontation with Russia to defend a non-member. The NATO charter does not lend itself to taking that direct of extra-territorial action. In spite of all the propaganda that floats about on the Western Alliance, it is a defensive alliance and not an instrument of expansion. No one joins NATO involuntarily ... The Warsaw Pact ... Well, that was something different.
 

White_Unifier

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UN sanctions, they are not in NATO, but NATO are supporting them through training and defensive weapons, Crimea will be used as a pawn that I agree

There are no UN sanctions against Russia since Russia would have a veto power against any such sanctions at the UN Security Counsel (one reason we should scrap that counsel).