What its like in Afghanistan
- Thread starter Boxcar
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Afghanistan was not entered in order to rout the Taliban. It was entered to supposedly find Osama and his cronies and get rid of them. Only now, when things have been disrupted there, are we told that in fact the whole purpose of the war is to get rid of the Taliban because they are are a dictatorial government. But before 9/11, the US had been dealing with the Taliban, in fact organizing a gas pipeline with them.
The war now isnt even about the Taliban anymore. It is about controlling a country which through no fault of its own happens to lie in a strategic part of the world. Afghanistan's entire history has been one of invaders coming to take it over and then rival factions within the country vying for control.
And Canada and the US will find out as did England and the USSR previously that it is not easy to come in and control another country. While you may do some good somewhere such as building a school or homes, the reality is that you create such an unstable society that the population ends up with a civil war and the people resent your intrusion and disruption of their lives.
And so now we enter the "entrenched" phase where we pour more and more money into the country and end up with more and more of it being used for destruction and not construction. There is no easy solution to war. This war will burn itself out in ten or so years, like Vietnam, when we realize we cant win and we decide to leave. We cant fight the Taliban- they are being supplied with weapons by people who rejoice in the chance to make a profit. And even if we do defeat the Taliban, there will then be another faction emerge as the "enemy".
As long as an arms sales are an economic priority to many countries, there is little hope that war will be based on helping other countries attain democracy.
Fuzzy wrote: And Canada and the US will find out as did England and the USSR previously that it is not easy to come in and control another country. While you may do some good somewhere such as building a school or homes, the reality is that you create such an unstable society that the population ends up with a civil war and the people resent your intrusion and disruption of their lives.
We are not controlling another country Fuzzy we were asked to be there, also Afghanistan's people repeatedly ask us to stay. Canada's role is fluid and evolving now it appears we are helping the two warring fractions decide where this country will go politically. If the Afghanies want us to leave Canada would, however it's the Peaceniks that want us to leave not the Afghanie people.
We are not controlling another country Fuzzy we were asked to be there, also Afghanistan's people repeatedly ask us to stay. Canada's role is fluid and evolving now it appears we are helping the two warring fractions decide where this country will go politically. If the Afghanies want us to leave Canada would, however it's the Peaceniks that want us to leave not the Afghanie people.
Absolutely Sass, but more importantly. We are not there to impliment communism or install a totally foriegn style of government, run completely by foriegners. It is an Afghan government, with Afghan's in charge. Albeit, it may be a puppet state, but we are not doing what Russia did.
So we are in Afghanistan to help???
Then :
1.why are we not addressing the fact that the 60% of the current Afghani legislative body that we are collaborating with and setting up as the future of the country consist of corrupt individuals allied to warlords and militia that have as bad human rights records as the Taliban. Canada states that it is fighting to get rid of the Taliban, but the government it is helping instate is no better. Abuses against women continue in the country.
2. why are we not helping the economy which has crashed since ousting of the Taliban. The Taliban had managed to rid the country of its drug production, but since the Taliban was ousted and the war started the country's main economic source is again opium and heroin. And where the British have gone in and destroyed fields of poppies, farmers who lost their incomes have had to sell their daughters to the druglords. Many of the current legislative body are druglords.
3. why are we not ensuring that when an individual is captured and handed over to the Afghani authority that the individual is not tortured. Why are you not given accurate figures of civilian death?
The fact is, there ARE ulterior motives in Afghanistan. A US study done by the US Trade and Development over the past four years has assessed that the oil and gas reserves in Northern Afghanistan are up to 18 times more than originally thought.
Also, Canada is currently (and was involved before the war) in negotiations with Turkmenistan to run a gasline from there across Afghanistan to Pakistan. Turkmenistan has a human rights record that is far more oppressive than the Taliban, and yet you dont see our troops in there trying to bring the people a better life. And we wont, as long as Turkmenistan cooperates with us.
Who is profiting from the war? Why all the companies such as General Dynamics and Airbus Military who are getting big contracts. Lockheed and Boeing are fighting it out for the juicy bits. And I am sure it hasnt hurt them that the Defense Minister Gordon O'Connor is a former lobbyist for the big military contractors!!!
Will we succeed? Britain tried three times.
USSR failed after killing one million people and displacing five million more, despite having tens of thousands of troops.
Good luck to our 2200.
Then :
1.why are we not addressing the fact that the 60% of the current Afghani legislative body that we are collaborating with and setting up as the future of the country consist of corrupt individuals allied to warlords and militia that have as bad human rights records as the Taliban. Canada states that it is fighting to get rid of the Taliban, but the government it is helping instate is no better. Abuses against women continue in the country.
2. why are we not helping the economy which has crashed since ousting of the Taliban. The Taliban had managed to rid the country of its drug production, but since the Taliban was ousted and the war started the country's main economic source is again opium and heroin. And where the British have gone in and destroyed fields of poppies, farmers who lost their incomes have had to sell their daughters to the druglords. Many of the current legislative body are druglords.
3. why are we not ensuring that when an individual is captured and handed over to the Afghani authority that the individual is not tortured. Why are you not given accurate figures of civilian death?
The fact is, there ARE ulterior motives in Afghanistan. A US study done by the US Trade and Development over the past four years has assessed that the oil and gas reserves in Northern Afghanistan are up to 18 times more than originally thought.
Also, Canada is currently (and was involved before the war) in negotiations with Turkmenistan to run a gasline from there across Afghanistan to Pakistan. Turkmenistan has a human rights record that is far more oppressive than the Taliban, and yet you dont see our troops in there trying to bring the people a better life. And we wont, as long as Turkmenistan cooperates with us.
Who is profiting from the war? Why all the companies such as General Dynamics and Airbus Military who are getting big contracts. Lockheed and Boeing are fighting it out for the juicy bits. And I am sure it hasnt hurt them that the Defense Minister Gordon O'Connor is a former lobbyist for the big military contractors!!!
Will we succeed? Britain tried three times.
USSR failed after killing one million people and displacing five million more, despite having tens of thousands of troops.
Good luck to our 2200.
Can you back any of that up. Because I can actually post proof of the opposite of most of what you just claimed in your opinion piece.
The Poppy problem, with the right control system could help Afghanies rather than harm them. If they were granted preferential trade arrangements for their opium, as they can produce the most, it could be sold as "Afghanistan Medicine" brand. There are groups out there who are currently working on this option, and making these recommendations.
seems like Aoen had some influance on him....I dont know about you but Id try not to argue what past 16 year old members have argued. Also all of your comments have no proof fuzz......
Actually, Bear, I thought you were joking. After all, all of my statements are not secrets, and have been well reported in the news for anyone who reads more than headlines. I am not sure which of my statements you consider are abominable lies, so I will address them as such:
1. corruption in Afghani legislature:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6045082.stm
2. continued violence against women in Afghanistan:
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/110106WB.shtml
3. Turkmenistan corruption:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Turkmenistan
4. Canada and Turkmenistan gas:
http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/Afghanistanfactsheet.pdf
5. Drugs in Afghanistan:
http://www.unis.unvienna.org/unis/pressrels/2004/unisnar867.html
6. Prisoner conditions in Afghanistan:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=11168
I'll leave you to verfiy the stuff about the war minister.
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I was going to post a couple links to sites that have info posted right from the Soldiers in Afghanistan, as well as reporting from Afghanistan on the agricultural investment by both the Canadian Government with field support of the Troops. Plus the kudos we keep getting for those efforts, but then I realized, there was no point.
You are a bigot and nothing I waste my time posting is going to change your mind or soften your view of my brothers, sisters and friends in Afghanistan. I hope one day you see the error in you views and change yourself. Because you are missing so much of life because of it.
You are a bigot and nothing I waste my time posting is going to change your mind or soften your view of my brothers, sisters and friends in Afghanistan. I hope one day you see the error in you views and change yourself. Because you are missing so much of life because of it.
A bigot?
Quite the opposite.
I care about ALL sides in a war, not just the side that happens to be Canadian.
This is not bigoted towards our troops. That is rubbish.
I care about our armed forces. I care that they come home alive. I care that they arent put in harms way without a good reason. And I care that they do work that is constructive and not destructive.
You asked me to quote some sources to back up my statements and I have. I guess now you have to resort to calling me names as your rebuttal.
Actually, I would like to apologise to you, I thought you were logic 7, I am really sorry. I hope you can forgive me? If some one thought I was logic7, I would be miffed eternaly.
http://geo.international.gc.ca/cip-pic/current_discussions/afghanistan-storiesfromthefield-en.asp
Seeing as you are not logic 7, here ya go. There's one, if ya actually want more, just ask.
Seeing as you are not logic 7, here ya go. There's one, if ya actually want more, just ask.
Fuzzy: Okay, so you don't believe the original reason for going into Afghanistan, but even if you are right in saying that the initial reason for going is wrong, I would argue that I am glad we did and I go back to my previous post - we have a responsibility, as a country, to humanity. I think we can do good there but it's going to take a long, long time.
Are there problems with their government?? Absolutely. But we abandon the people because of this?? Absolutely not! We educate, teach and show them how it could work by giving Afghans the power to make the changes they need.
I also think that the Americans are taking the wrong road in destroying poppy fields. They'll just anger the population whose only source of income comes from those fields. I just read an article that someone had written about this very issue. Why couldn't these poppy fields be harvested and sold to the various drug companies of the world. Could the drug companies not use this to make other drugs to benefit humankind?? Kinda makes sense to me. Why not take the drug lords right out of the picture?? May be simplistic but wouldn't it be worth a try??
JMO
Are there problems with their government?? Absolutely. But we abandon the people because of this?? Absolutely not! We educate, teach and show them how it could work by giving Afghans the power to make the changes they need.
I also think that the Americans are taking the wrong road in destroying poppy fields. They'll just anger the population whose only source of income comes from those fields. I just read an article that someone had written about this very issue. Why couldn't these poppy fields be harvested and sold to the various drug companies of the world. Could the drug companies not use this to make other drugs to benefit humankind?? Kinda makes sense to me. Why not take the drug lords right out of the picture?? May be simplistic but wouldn't it be worth a try??
JMO