What happened to the disbelievers who died?

MHz

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Peter was an apostle, he was a devoted believer; he devoted himself to God alone, and believed in the teachings of his teacher: Jesus Christ.
But these texts are not necessarily what he said: it is what others narrate and told about his letters.
Sure it is, the texts in the other 3 Gospels are also accurate to the letter or they are all liars and that simply cannot be true and still have the Torah or the Quran mean anything more than that.

Joh:21:24:
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things,
and wrote these things:
and we know that his testimony is true.

To prove this: see the new versions of the Bible and how do they manipulate the words so as to agree with their enthusiasm and associating Jesus with God.
Compare the old versions with the new versions and see that many changes have been done.
So such manipulations have been done all over the history: by the devilish kings and religious leaders.
I don't reference the newer English Bibles as they differ from the text in the KJV 1611 version. There is no huge conspiracy although the newest ones do push the Daniel 70 week theme more than it deserves. That 1st edition comes with a copyright and that means for any other book to claim to also be a Bible that it has to differ in text to a certain degree. That is why there is a difference and because the Bible is phrase orientated they are useless for explaining the prophecies.

You are at the point where your arguments are making the case for my version having the authority the other themes are missing

I give you an example in the Muslim world:
When Prophet Mohammed - salam to him - is mentioned, it is a matter of respect that God ordered when any of the prophets is mentioned to say: Salam to him or peace to him.
But for Muslims, they started to make distinction of Prophet Mohammed from other prophets, so they say: Blessings to him. This is according to some misinterpretation.
While if you study it, you will find that Prophet Mohammed like other prophets also one should say: salam to him.
If you do that for one Prophet you gave to do that same honor for each Prophet mentioned. You would also have to honor God even more as you mention His name. Even the Bible promotes that you honor God when mentioning Him and it can be found in the texts that this is done. What is also done is that is done once at the beginning of their message and again at the close of the message. When you repeat the same words many times and they are not part of the verse it is entering the realm of becoming a 'vain repetition' that has no practical value when it comes to understanding God. The Bible has 40 Scribes involved in that same single task, adding your book would make it 41 rather than the 1 scribe you are trying to claim. You even support that theme in your quote below as the plural of messenger is used so if you are dismissing the Bible (and the Torah) then you are promoting that men are stronger than God because they corrupted His word. The text is perfect, the understanding of the text is flawed in most versions. Those flaws are easy to highlight using the Bible, the one version you have not yet condemned as you have only pointed out the flaws in the latest publications.

As God said in the Quran 37: 181, which means:
181. [O Muslims, say:] "Salam be to the messengers. e "

182. "And [say] praise be to God the Lord of the worlds [Who sent the messengers to us f.]"
....................................................................

e If they are mentioned before you.

f And they guided us to the way of the truth.

======================================================
All the Scribes, and as such they are all Prophets also, have contributed to a theme with a singular theme and that is because there is one author, God. All Scribes have equal authority and in the Gospels, Peter, James, Mark, and Beloved Disciple tell a single narrative and they quote Jesus rather than Jesus being the author. The Gospel of John is for John the Baptist, he alone is the most favored Prophet for obvious reasons so you have to show that God made a mistake and it was actually Mohammad that God favored the most. Good luck with that one.

M't:11:11:
Verily I say unto you,
Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:
notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
 

selfsame

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Such wrangling will not end: you say my version ..etc.
So the best thing to say is:

The essence of religion is God and that God is One without associate according to the Commandment which is the most important of all the commandments, which is the First Commandment; so hold fast with this and leave the enthusiasm about those other than God or else there will be no difference between you and the idolaters.

Quran 3: 64, which means:
{ 64. Say [Mohammed], "People of the Bible [: Jews and Christians], come to a word a of agreement b between us and you:
that we shall worship none but God [alone
c],
that we shall not associate anything
d with Him e,
and that none of us shall take others for lords other than God
f."
But should they turn away [from you and do not submit to God] then say [g to them:] "Bear witness that we have submitted h [ourselves to God alone.]"}
..................................................................

a That I say to you.

b To make a mutual covenant.

c As had He commanded us by the tongue of His prophets and apostles, and as had been mentioned in the Tablets and the heavenly books.

d and anyone of creatures.

e In the worship.

f So that we should not worship the Christ, neither should we sanctify priests, nor monks, nor clergies; and that we should not glorify the graves of prophets, sheikhs or imams; because all of that is some kind of association with God, which God does not accept.

And When His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 9: 31 was revealed, which means:
(They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords apart from God);
Uday son of Hatim said: "God's messenger, we do not worship them!"
So he – salam to him - said: "Don't they make [the unlawful] lawful to you and forbid you [the lawful], and you took their words?"
He said: "Yes."
[God's messenger said]: "Don't you glorify them and kiss their hands?"
He said: "Yes."
The prophet said: "That's it."

g i.e. Then, O Muslims, say to them in reply to their turning away:

h i.e. complying to that which the Prophet brings from God.


The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
 
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MHz

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Or else you will not see the truth and will lose in the Next Life.
Let's start with your biggest flaw of all, that punishment is eternal rather than it being grace and mercy. Punishment does have an end and it is followed by another era. If that part is wrong then how can the rest be as accurate as you want it to be?
You can do nothing to a child of the light so spare me the threats to my eternal soul.

1Th:5:2-9:
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say,
Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child;
and they shall not escape.
But ye,
brethren,
are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day:
we are not of the night,
nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep,
as do others;
but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night;
and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us,
who are of the day,
be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love;
and for an helmet,
the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Re:21:1-7:
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city,
new Jerusalem,
coming down from God out of heaven,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
Behold,
the tabernacle of God is with men,
and he will dwell with them,
and they shall be his people,
and God himself shall be with them,
and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;
and there shall be no more death,
neither sorrow,
nor crying,
neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said,
Behold,
I make all things new.
And he said unto me,
Write:
for these words are true and faithful.
And he said unto me,
It is done.
I am Alpha and Omega,
the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He that overcometh shall inherit all things;
and I will be his God,
and he shall be my son.


Isa:65:16:
That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth;
and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth;
because the former troubles are forgotten,
and because they are hid from mine eyes.

Isa:65:17:
For,
behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.


Your words are so obscure that you or few others may understand them.
So the obscurity of your words is a best proof of that they are wrong.
Anyone who is in error would see them as flawed yet not be able to clearly identify the flaw. You can get clarity by slowing down the conversation and over the post one line at a time. If the clarity is there then my doctrine has more authority than you currently think it does.

I am not trying to convert you (as the Jew said); this I think is very unlikely because the time for this has almost passed away, although the guidance is up to God.
I'm trying to convert you into a person who has the best insight to God that is possible in this world. You are restive to exploring the Bible with me as your guide.

Isa:28:9:
Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?

them that are weaned from the milk,
and drawn from the breasts.
Isa:28:10:
For precept must be upon precept,
precept upon precept;
line upon line,
line upon line;
here a little,
and there a little:


Your belief has been established, but was wrong at the basis, and you built your establishment on wrong foundations.
Therefore, it is more and more getting more complex and more wrong.
And the references are wrong: the distorted texts of the present Torah and Gospel.
Eliminate the 70 weeks being anything but a single block of time is the only change that is needed, that leaves only one possible version that the Bible can promote with all of it references Ge:3:15 plays an important role in setting a cornerstone for gaining the understanding that is in the book, if you have another version it is flawed in some manner. One that can be explained also.

So the best way to purify all this confusion is to return to the origin of God's religion: the First Commandment: and devoting your religion to God alone. Secondly: To leave the 'enthusiasm about Jesus Christ' who was only a messenger like the rest of God's messenger.
There are only quotes from Jesus, why you would want to minimize that aspect is at your own peril as Christ is quoted as covering in His witness of creation.

Proverb:8:22-36:
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning,
or ever the earth was.
When there were no depths,
I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
While as yet he had not made the earth,
nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
When he prepared the heavens,
I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
When he established the clouds above:
when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
When he gave to the sea his decree,
that the waters should not pass his commandment:
when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Then I was by him,
as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing always before him;
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth;
and my delights were with the sons of men.
Now therefore hearken unto me,
O ye children:
for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Hear instruction, and be wise,
and refuse it not.

Blessed is the man that heareth me,
watching daily at my gates,
waiting at the posts of my doors.
For whoso findeth me findeth life,
and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul:
all they that hate me love death.
 

selfsame

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1Th:5:2-9:
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Re:21:1-7:
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:

Isa:65:16:
That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth;
and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth;
because the former troubles are forgotten,
and because they are hid from mine eyes.

Isa:65:17:
For,
behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.

Proverb:8:22-36:
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.

We believe in God as One God without associate, and we believe in all the prophets including Isaia and the rest of the prophets and apostles.
And we believe in Jesus Christ as a prophet and an honored apostle of God, and we believe in the Gospel and the Torah in addition to the Quran.
 
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DaSleeper

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JLM

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I don't know what it is with these Bible thumpers that have to go on over and over pounding on the same old sh*t they've been pounding for decades.
 

MHz

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Selfsludge and MHz. How many people do you think read all that shyt you post? It's like reading a damn telephone book.
As long as we read each others posts what does it matter? You can't grasp the simplest doctrine so no big surprise that you can't follow along in the more complex ones. All your posts accomplish is to highlight how stupid and ignorant you are about the book called the Bible, which only proves how stupid you really are. lol
 

Ludlow

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As long as we read each others posts what does it matter? You can't grasp the simplest doctrine so no big surprise that you can't follow along in the more complex ones. All your posts accomplish is to highlight how stupid and ignorant you are about the book called the Bible, which only proves how stupid you really are. lol
no you are
 

Twila

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I don't know what it is with these Bible thumpers that have to go on over and over pounding on the same old sh*t they've been pounding for decades.

Its' what they know..or what they think they know.

I think it's the same with people who have very few other hobbies. They have only one topic to talk about.

Some are like that for religion and some are like that for politics.

Me...I always revert to animal talk when I'm in doubt. I figure it's a good way to suss out people. Those who dislike animals are people I've no desire to know better and lots of desire to stay away from.

meh, to each his own I guess.

But when you open a topic up by talking/posting about it, you also invite discussion, debate, ridicule and judgement. meh, human eh?
 

Jinentonix

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How do you know this and so you assert it?
There is no God. Want me to back up that assertion? Just take a good, open, honest look at the world and ask yourself, "What the hell kind of loving, benevolent God would let his supposed Creation turn to sh*t and do nothing about it? Why would a loving, benevolent God allow millions of his creations to slowly starve to death because they have no food? What kind of loving, benevolent God creates us with the ability to think for ourselves, and then punishes us in the afterlife for using that ability while we lived?
And most importantly, why would a loving, benevolent God set up the first two people he created to fail, and then get pissed at them for meeting his expectations of failure? What would you call a parent who intentionally sets their child up for failure?


I repeat. There is no God.
 

Ludlow

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There is no God. Want me to back up that assertion? Just take a good, open, honest look at the world and ask yourself, "What the hell kind of loving, benevolent God would let his supposed Creation turn to sh*t and do nothing about it? Why would a loving, benevolent God allow millions of his creations to slowly starve to death because they have no food? What kind of loving, benevolent God creates us with the ability to think for ourselves, and then punishes us in the afterlife for using that ability while we lived?
And most importantly, why would a loving, benevolent God set up the first two people he created to fail, and then get pissed at them for meeting his expectations of failure? What would you call a parent who intentionally sets their child up for failure?


I repeat. There is no God.
How original. Nice to know there are free thinkers out there who have something unique to say that we've not heard a thousand fawking times before.
 

MHz

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You missed that part where she said it was a repeat didn't you. How many times in the past did you miss seeing her post that thought. Time to stop taking those pills.
 

JLM

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Its' what they know..or what they think they know.

I think it's the same with people who have very few other hobbies. They have only one topic to talk about.

Some are like that for religion and some are like that for politics.

Me...I always revert to animal talk when I'm in doubt. I figure it's a good way to suss out people. Those who dislike animals are people I've no desire to know better and lots of desire to stay away from.

meh, to each his own I guess.

But when you open a topic up by talking/posting about it, you also invite discussion, debate, ridicule and judgement. meh, human eh?

About a week ago after having slept poorly I was taking an afternoon nap, while the wife was out, when the door bell rings and the dog starts barking. When I opened the door, who should appear but these two old dears about my age "wanting to leave something with me to read". It was all I could do to resist strangling the pair of them. But then I thought what would be the use - they are oblivious to any other aspects of life or people's numerous other concerns. :)

They quit disbelieving! :)
 

Ludlow

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You missed that part where she said it was a repeat didn't you. How many times in the past did you miss seeing her post that thought. Time to stop taking those pills.
take your medicine son you make,,as usual,,no sense

take your medicine son you make,,as usual,,no sense
Maybe it's good you copy and paste your endless litany of shyt from the bible because what comes from your throat is total gibberish. Why don't ye be like your hero Saul and speak in tongues that might be more understandable.