What happened to the disbelievers who died?
- Thread starter selfsame
- Start date
So, you don't fear only fear god? Isn't that what I said? You're so afraid of your god that you won't think for yourself.
It's not advice I'm giving. Just stating facts. I said you had a lot of fear. You agreed you feared your god. YOU ARE AFRAID. fact.
I have no fear of your god or anyones god. The only creature I need to be considerate of, respectful of and work very hard for is myself. I need the punishment of any god to keep me good. I don't rape, I don't murder, I don't torture, I don't enslave people. I don't hurt others. I look after my own, I protect children and animals anytime I come across one that is in need. I feed homeless people and I treat all as respectfully as they treat me, regardless of age, sex, religion, socio-economic background.
I didn't know Lions do the missionary position. Interpretation by Mewhammed Abdul Bin Jabbarski Liebowitz.The Lion of Babylon
I am truly using my own words. That was a picture posted in an attempt
to get your attention, and not Muhammed billy von whatever's attention.
What words of what atheist am I citing? Do you think I'm an atheist &
am citing myself? I am not religious, but I am spiritual, and I question,
almost everything....How about yourself?
Oh! OK....so, what you are saying is, "Unless someone is willing to
swallow what you have swallowed, without question or dissent, then
they are.....?"
So, outside of the world view you've been spoon feed, nothing else
gets through your head. Nothing can be questioned about what you
post. Those who do are below your consideration. Got it. Am I correct?
My interpretation is not by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
well selfsame hasn't been spoon fed a world view...only a middle eastern view. It was within a very small area that all this abrahamic bullshyte came about.
There is NO questioning anything when you are this type of muslim. That is what keeps them happy. The dissapproval and death of any questioning, any perceived dissent. They dont' have to take any responsbility for thinking on their own and there fore have no responsibility for the results. Well at least as far as they're concerned. The rest of the world and many of their fellow moderate muslims see the sham that thinking is.
But at the end of the day, as long as only they have to follow those ridiculous rules, then its' fine.
Selfsame is only here in a vain attempt to curry favour beans with his imagined god. He has no care about his fellow man. His fear of his god is so great that there is nothing of his self left.
Selfsame may be proof that this sort of religiousity is a mental disorder. The fear that logic from us might get through terrifies him. He NEEDS to spread his lies so he can sleep at night. He's got a boogy man living in his head 24/7
bluebyrd35
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selfsame
Today I read these four marvellous ayat .. wonderful .. truly the Quran is unique; there is nothing like this in the other heavenly books
The Quran tells about the outcome of disbelievers who died, and what they said:
When the angels of death captured their souls, the disbelievers startled with terror .. then their repentance and belief at that time was not accepted
.................................................. ..
My experiences following the deaths of those close to me, bear no resemblance to what the Quran says. I lost two children, one just before her marriage and the other just before he received his university degree. Both at the same time. I watered my garden with my tears. I was in my 40's and was devastated.
We were alway open and inquiring about the world around us. We discovered that our dreams were not the nonsense everyone supposes. We agreed we would communicate via our dreams if ever a tragedy occurred. Well there was a monstrous one that befell my husband and myself, but not apparently for the two who left this reality.
We were comforted nightly, and we were sent many blessings in the form of many of their friends we had never met. (Both attended school, and lived 600 miles away)
We learned about their lives away from us, and both were there nightly for comfort. About 4 months after death, there was a spectacular dream, one in which both were standing on golden stairs. We were told, it was their time to move on and while they would keep in touch, it would not be as closely as it had been.
I do have a dream involving one or the other occasionally now, but they are just reminders of times past. They will be there to greet me when my time comes or when I am in dire need of consolation again.
Now much the same thing happened when I lost my husband. In fact, it was much more physical than the children's dreams were. There was no doubt about the intent of giving comfort and reassurance, that life does not end with the death of the body.
I feel really sad for those who are not open to such comfort or reassurance. I am sorry to discover that not everyone has such experiences to ease the necessary learning experiences of this life.
So, understand that no matter what threats the writers of Quran or the Bible say.......I know better. My wish for you.........that you discover that life has a purpose and is a learning experience.
.................................................. ...................
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selfsame
Today I read these four marvellous ayat .. wonderful .. truly the Quran is unique; there is nothing like this in the other heavenly books
The Quran tells about the outcome of disbelievers who died, and what they said:
When the angels of death captured their souls, the disbelievers startled with terror .. then their repentance and belief at that time was not accepted
.................................................. ..
My experiences following the deaths of those close to me, bear no resemblance to what the Quran says. I lost two children, one just before her marriage and the other just before he received his university degree. Both at the same time. I watered my garden with my tears. I was in my 40's and was devastated.
We were alway open and inquiring about the world around us. We discovered that our dreams were not the nonsense everyone supposes. We agreed we would communicate via our dreams if ever a tragedy occurred. Well there was a monstrous one that befell my husband and myself, but not apparently for the two who left this reality.
We were comforted nightly, and we were sent many blessings in the form of many of their friends we had never met. (Both attended school, and lived 600 miles away)
We learned about their lives away from us, and both were there nightly for comfort. About 4 months after death, there was a spectacular dream, one in which both were standing on golden stairs. We were told, it was their time to move on and while they would keep in touch, it would not be as closely as it had been.
I do have a dream involving one or the other occasionally now, but they are just reminders of times past. They will be there to greet me when my time comes or when I am in dire need of consolation again.
Now much the same thing happened when I lost my husband. In fact, it was much more physical than the children's dreams were. There was no doubt about the intent of giving comfort and reassurance, that life does not end with the death of the body.
I feel really sad for those who are not open to such comfort or reassurance. I am sorry to discover that not everyone has such experiences to ease the necessary learning experiences of this life.
So, understand that no matter what threats the writers of Quran or the Bible say.......I know better. My wish for you.........that you discover that life has a purpose and is a learning experience.
.................................................. ...................
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Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (1 members and 0 guests): bluebyrd35
You belong to a group of wranglers, and love the wrangling; this is obvious.
Anyhow I believe in God and in His Quran and I believe also in the interpretation of Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Mahdi or Al-Hilly.
The late interpreter did not speak of his own accord; what he heard from the angel he said, whether you believe or not: in fact you are misguided: either atheist or associater or idolater .. nothing else.
I have translated the interpretation and I tell others whether in Arabic or English about the books and interpretations of Abu abd-Allah: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
I have just updated the site including the book: The Universe and the Quran.
http://www.quran-ayat.com/universe/index.htm
This is in the Gospel of John 16: Jesus Christ said:
"7 It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.
8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
And he said in the same chapter: 16: 12-13
"12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come."
"The Quran tells about the outcome of disbelievers who died, and what they said:
When the angels of death captured their souls, the disbelievers startled with terror .. then their repentance and belief at that time was not accepted"
The key words that people seem to be missing is 'at that time' as it is the beginning of a set period of punishment and the repentance and belief is accepted at the end of the punishment period, in this case the start is the beginning of the 1,000 year reign and the end of the punishment (for some) is only over at the time of the Great White Throne event begins.
Selfsame even provided her own stumbling block when she gave God's title as 'Almighty' and 'Gracious' and you cannot be both at the same time, Almighty sends many for punishment that might appear to be more than the crime warrants but they are restored to good graces after that period of time is over, that is being gracious.
Also death has been defined as the Spirit returning to God at the moment of death, that means the grave is a place of deep sleep. The time that changes is when the trumps begin to sound as this population has people like Moses doing exploits so proof od God existing will be available to people at that time. Until the trumps begin to sound about 3 1/2 years before the return the gathering method is reading about God and failure to repent and believe means at death you go to sleep rather than to hell. Close but still making God to be more punisher than healer that cares about the things He created.
You must also allow the personal words of the learned men who have 'opinions' (in the Talmud) on the Torah. Some of those teachings conflict with the NT version of 'things' yet all are from God, the part that has to be accepted that the NT 'trumps' all other writings as far as what will be involved in the return of this earth to the Kingdom of God. If you do not accept the NT as having that authority then you have become the enemy that you mention so often, perhaps that is why. No Jew or Gentile can have a relationship with God that is not defined by one of the points in the 7 letters to the Churches that will be involved in the events when prophecy starts to unfold in earnest.
When the angels of death captured their souls, the disbelievers startled with terror .. then their repentance and belief at that time was not accepted"
The key words that people seem to be missing is 'at that time' as it is the beginning of a set period of punishment and the repentance and belief is accepted at the end of the punishment period, in this case the start is the beginning of the 1,000 year reign and the end of the punishment (for some) is only over at the time of the Great White Throne event begins.
Selfsame even provided her own stumbling block when she gave God's title as 'Almighty' and 'Gracious' and you cannot be both at the same time, Almighty sends many for punishment that might appear to be more than the crime warrants but they are restored to good graces after that period of time is over, that is being gracious.
Also death has been defined as the Spirit returning to God at the moment of death, that means the grave is a place of deep sleep. The time that changes is when the trumps begin to sound as this population has people like Moses doing exploits so proof od God existing will be available to people at that time. Until the trumps begin to sound about 3 1/2 years before the return the gathering method is reading about God and failure to repent and believe means at death you go to sleep rather than to hell. Close but still making God to be more punisher than healer that cares about the things He created.
That made him a believer, the words in the book are the ones that are to make you a believer, an angel should bring the same clarity to you as it did to others, if you ask for it and if God approves your humble request understanding will come to you just as it did to others believers before you.
You must also allow the personal words of the learned men who have 'opinions' (in the Talmud) on the Torah. Some of those teachings conflict with the NT version of 'things' yet all are from God, the part that has to be accepted that the NT 'trumps' all other writings as far as what will be involved in the return of this earth to the Kingdom of God. If you do not accept the NT as having that authority then you have become the enemy that you mention so often, perhaps that is why. No Jew or Gentile can have a relationship with God that is not defined by one of the points in the 7 letters to the Churches that will be involved in the events when prophecy starts to unfold in earnest.
I am a man who likes to speak clearly.
So I tell you, MHz:
You are enthusiastic about Jesus Christ, and you studied the Bible: this is obvious, but the basis of your belief is wrong: i.e. you studied a lot and know a big deal about the Bible: but the basis of your belief is wrong: it is based on the enthusiasm and based on the present Bible which suffered a lot of distortion, so that the doctrines and beliefs have been altered into a form nearer to idolatry; so in stead of holding the Christ as an apostle of God, Christians have considered him as God Himself, and this is in fact the top of disbelief and the top of idolatry and association with God which is contrary to the First Commandment.
The Old Testament is in fact the Torah of Ezra, who rewrote it after their return from Babylon, and he made serious alterations in the basic beliefs: so that God is cited searching about Adam and Adam hid from him behind a tree ... etc. God wrestles with Jacob who overcame him ... and God made Adam in his image .. And a large number of alterations and lies against the prophets like Abraham, Adam, Lot, Solomon and others.
While the Gospel: it is very obvious not the original: there are 4 Gospels and the defect is very obvious and the distortions of the Gospel made Jesus as a god not as a servant of God.
So the interpreter of the Quran and the Bible said:
"I have studied the present Torah and the Gospel, the Psalms and the Quran; and discovered that the first three books had been somewhat altered by the hands of men, so that they changed some of their statements and distorted the truth. Therefore, from now on we cannot rely upon them. For this reason, anyone who seeks after the truth should hold fast with the Quran which no falsehood can touch whether beforehand or afterwards, that is the revelation from a Wise and Praiseworthy (God.)"
Fearing of God is the axis of the religion. The pious should be God fearing. And the non-religious is not God fearing.
So stop your cheating and trickery.
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This reply is for MHz:
God the Creator has a large number of fair names, and man should pray God with these fair names according to the situation:
If he prays for forgiveness, he should say: O God You are the Most Forgiving or the All-Forgiving
If he prayes for mercy, he says: O Most Merciful
If he prays for provision, he says: You are the Best of providers
For help, he prays: You are the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing
For his needs, he calls on his Lord: You the All-Offering or the Generous, the Most Gracious, the Most High, ...etc.
But all these names are attributes of the One God: the Eternal.
Quran 17: 110, which means:
[One night in Mecca, the Prophet – salam to him – said in his prayer: “O God Most Gracious, O Most Merciful!”
And the associaters said: “This one claims he has one god, and now he calls two!”
Therefore, this aya was revealed:]
{ 110. Say: "Call upon God, or call upon the Most Gracious; whichsoever you call upon; to Him belong the Names Most Beautiful." a
Neither speak your prayer [O Mohammed] aloud, nor speak it in a low tone b, but seek a middle course between. c
111. And say: "All praise is due to God, Who has not taken to Him any son [or daughter] d, neither has He any associate in [His] kingdom e, nor has He any protector out of humbleness f "
And magnify Him with so great magnification.}
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a It means: the Creator is One, and His names are many, and all of such names are His beautiful attributes.
b To the extent that the one near to you may not hear your uttering.
c So don’t speak so loudly, neither hush your voice so lowly.
d So that he [or she] may oppose Him.
e So he may compete with Him.
f So that He may fortify and empower Himself with him.
It means: He is not humble so that He needs anyone to empower Himself with.
The meaning: He is the All-Mighty by Himself, and all that is worshipped apart from Him is humble and lowly.
==============================================================
The repentance is accepted at any time until the man is about to die: in this hour the repentance will not be accepted, because the dying man or the one about to die, has started to see the angels and the souls of the Next Life: so here all people will repent, including the disbeliever .. but in this instance the repentance is not accepted.
And the way to repentance is accepted until the portents of Doomsday will come: the first one is the division of the moon into two halves: so here all people will repent including the disbeleiver, but their repentance will not accepted.
Therefore, man should repent before these two conditions: when man is about to die, and when the portents of Doomsday appear.
Quran 4: 18, which means:
17. God surely accepts the repentance a of those who do evil while being ignorant b, then soon afterwards c they turn in repentance;
it is these [repentants] whose repentance God shall accept; surely, God is All-Knowing d [and] All-Wise e.
18. And in fact, the repentance [accepted by God] is not of those who [go on] doing evil until, when the death [angel] attends upon anyone of them, he says: "I have now repented"; nor yet of those who die while being unbelievers f. For such We have prepared a painful doom [in the Next Life.]
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a i.e. the repentance that God, with His favor, has decided to accept.
b i.e. they commit sins while being ignorant of its punishment and consequences.
Anyhow, man keeps up to being ignorant until he attains the age of forty years, when his reason increases with experience and study and so his ignorance will gradually disappear.
c i.e. they repent within a short time from the day in which they committed the sin.
d About the acts of servants and their repentance.
e Concerning His dealing with them.
f And the repentance of such men will not be accepted.
And the second condition is mentioned in the Quran 6: 158, which means:
[Quraish tribesmen said to the Prophet – salam to him: "We will not believe in you unless you bring down to us the angels from heaven to testify that you are the messenger of God, or your Lord comes to testify that, or you split the moon into two halves and we see it with our own eyes, and then we will believe in you."
Therefore, this aya was revealed:]
158. Do they look for the angels to come to them [to testify to them about the authenticity of your prophecy a], or that your Lord [Himself] should come [to testify that b,] or that one of your Lord's portents [: the division of the moon into two halves c] should come?
On the day [that] one of your Lord's portents will come, it shall not profit a soul to believe [at that time] that never believed before [the occurrence of that portent], or earned some good by his belief d.
Say [Mohammed to these associaters and idolaters]: "Wait you [for the occurrence of that portent; for] we [too] are waiting [for your death in order that We will punish you in the world of soulse]."
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a And that they will then believe.
b As do they suggest to you.
c Which is one of the portents of the approach of Doomsday.
d It means: If his deeds are not righteous, and he wants to repent from his wickedness and work righteousness at that time, then his repentance will not be accepted.
e So which one of us has his death appointment closer in time?
The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
When you two are done beating each other's heads with your iconic books are either of you going to convert because I don't see much intelligent conversation or independent thought ... unless you're happiest being led by the nose
Being a Christian is like being in the Choir, conversion is always 'up' so where should I go before proof is touchable? What I can do is spot the errors in the doctrine that others promote as the NT covers the start of the perfected earth, that is more than the Torah, Talmud or the Quran does. To know what the new earth is you have to have a list of the flaws in the current systems.
You have to believe that or your version ends up being in question. My version of the Bible (NT) allows for your version to exist but it is as flawed as you say my version is. In this post you will see you thoughts about what my version believes and it is different than your preconceived ideas about what 'all Christians' believe.
No they haven't that is an argument that cannot be proven by you and God Himself would have kept the Scriptures in perfect condition. In the time the Book of Daniel was written angels visited Daniel and it would have been Daniel and his 3 friends who would have been the Scribes that assembled the OT into the exact document God had in mind when He first started to talk to people named in the OT, like Moses. That would have made it letter perfect and copying text is relatively simple and perfect copies can be made. The NT was in Greek originally so it being translated into English was flawless. The KJV 166 text had Jews from Jerusalem translate the Hebrew into English so that is as perfect as it gets. You #1 point of why the Bible should not be used was just turned to dust. I can say your book is flawed in that it does not contain as much as the NT does about the coming end times and then post a long series of passages that spell out who is in what group and what they experience. None of which will have something that disputes what you are promoting as it agrees there will be the same events but the timing and sequence given in the NT has more details and that ends up being more authority.
If the book is that flawed perhaps the law had been tampered with as well? Judgment and salvation is based on two relationships, the one a person has withe the word 'GOD' and the other is the relationship he has with other people that he meets in his lifetime. Having anything more than the Bible is idol worship as nothing else can explain what salvation is or how it comes to people, all people.
It is your understanding of the events in the OT that need adjusting rather than the words in the book. Be happy to cover as many as you care to list.
It takes all 4 Gospels to become the Gospel so that is your first flaw, be happy to review your other points as you post them.
If I can debunk all those claims then it would make your book the one with flaws in it would it not? I'm willing to put the Bible to your test and I don't have a test for you.
That is the 'first step' in 'knowing God', it is not why we end up loving God more than we fear Him.
Ec:12:13:
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God,
and keep his commandments:
for this is the whole duty of man.
There is one prayer and one prayer alone that is used to get God's attention. Any other method will not bring the desired results. Prayers for knowledge would be the ones that get answered the most in part of events.
The day repenting doesn't help is the day the 7th trump sounds. Those Gentiles who have repented in the previous 3 1/2 years will have that be helpful in see what comes with the events on the day the 7th trump sounds. Angels are said to gather the wicked to Christ and He alone is the one who will have their blood on His hands. The verse below puts Christ as being a servant of God rather than being God Himself so there foes the false doctrine about the trinity and it takes just one verse.
1Co:15:27:
For he hath put all things under his feet.
But when he saith all things are put under him,
it is manifest that he is excepted,
which did put all things under him.
More like 'prey on' them, you should know that from personal past experiences.
Peter's letter to the Beloved Disciple admits she was there before he was. That is saying something considering he was the Chief Apostle.
1Jo:1:1-4:
That which was from the beginning,
which we have heard,
which we have seen with our eyes,
which we have looked upon,
and our hands have handled,
of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested,
and we have seen it,
and bear witness,
and shew unto you that eternal life,
which was with the Father,
and was manifested unto us
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,
that ye also may have fellowship with us:
and truly our fellowship is with the Father,
and with his Son Jesus Christ.
And these things write we unto you,
that your joy may be full.
1Jo:1:1-4:
That which was from the beginning,
which we have heard,
which we have seen with our eyes,
which we have looked upon,
and our hands have handled,
of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested,
and we have seen it,
and bear witness,
and shew unto you that eternal life,
which was with the Father,
and was manifested unto us
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,
that ye also may have fellowship with us:
and truly our fellowship is with the Father,
and with his Son Jesus Christ.
And these things write we unto you,
that your joy may be full.
Your words are so obscure that you or few others may understand them.
So the obscurity of your words is a best proof of that they are wrong.
I am not trying to convert you (as the Jew said); this I think is very unlikely because the time for this has almost passed away, although the guidance is up to God.
Your belief has been established, but was wrong at the basis, and you built your establishment on wrong foundations.
Therefore, it is more and more getting more complex and more wrong.
And the references are wrong: the distorted texts of the present Torah and Gospel.
So the best way to purify all this confusion is to return to the origin of God's religion: the First Commandment: and devoting your religion to God alone. Secondly: To leave the 'enthusiasm about Jesus Christ' who was only a messenger like the rest of God's messenger.
Or else you will not see the truth and will lose in the Next Life.
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The same thing that happened to the believers. Nothing. Well, except maybe being "disposed of" in the manner of their culture(s).
End of story.
Peter's letter to the Beloved Disciple admits she was there before he was. That is saying something considering he was the Chief Apostle.
1Jo:1:1-4:
That which was from the beginning,
which we have heard,
which we have seen with our eyes,
which we have looked upon,
and our hands have handled,
of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested,
and we have seen it,
and bear witness,
and shew unto you that eternal life,
which was with the Father,
and was manifested unto us
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,
that ye also may have fellowship with us:
and truly our fellowship is with the Father,
and with his Son Jesus Christ.
And these things write we unto you,
that your joy may be full.
Peter was an apostle, he was a devoted believer; he devoted himself to God alone, and believed in the teachings of his teacher: Jesus Christ.
But these texts are not necessarily what he said: it is what others narrate and told about his letters.
To prove this: see the new versions of the Bible and how do they manipulate the words so as to agree with their enthusiasm and associating Jesus with God.
Compare the old versions with the new versions and see that many changes have been done.
So such manipulations have been done all over the history: by the devilish kings and religious leaders.
I give you an example in the Muslim world:
When Prophet Mohammed - salam to him - is mentioned, it is a matter of respect that God ordered when any of the prophets is mentioned to say: Salam to him or peace to him.
But for Muslims, they started to make distinction of Prophet Mohammed from other prophets, so they say: Blessings to him. This is according to some misinterpretation.
While if you study it, you will find that Prophet Mohammed like other prophets also one should say: salam to him.
As God said in the Quran 37: 181, which means:
181. [O Muslims, say:] "Salam be to the messengers. e "
182. "And [say] praise be to God the Lord of the worlds [Who sent the messengers to us f.]"
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e If they are mentioned before you.
f And they guided us to the way of the truth.
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How do you know this and so you assert it?