What happened to the disbelievers who died?
- Thread starter selfsame
- Start date
It will not be good for you; are you blind from seeing the revelations of the Quran which speak about you and your like?
It is only your loss, for certain.
You mentioned that the Bible need to be explained before it can be understood. If I was to promote that all of Isaiah:65 was about the ones who are sent to hell would you be able to follow along by reading the chapter and seeing how that fits or would me explaining how I see it unfolding as being enough for you to see my POV and how it works that the Bible defines who the ones called 'the rest' are.
The chapter start with a narrative to a group that is at odds with God and at one point he kills them with His sword and the few verses below are some men in hell (grave and awake) that are experiences 'torments' while another group is 'having a party'. That is the difference between the ones in re:20$ who are alive and the ones that hell gives up in the Great White Throne verses.
Isa:65:12-15:
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
my servants shall eat,
but ye shall be hungry:
behold,
my servants shall drink,
but ye shall be thirsty:
behold,
my servants shall rejoice,
but ye shall be ashamed:
Behold,
my servants shall sing for joy of heart,
but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart,
and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen:
for the Lord GOD shall slay thee,
and call his servants by another name:
The forgiving sins is a few verses later and then it is the building houses verses. That is only done outside of New Jerusalem and Jerusalem in this chapter Jerusalem is New Jerusalem and the servants mentioned live inside the City and they have no need for houses, nor do they have children or have animals inside the City (not knowing about good and evil is why they are not allowed into the city, they live outside of the city and the ones called 'the rest' are their Shepherds in that they create the pastures they need to remain alive.
When children are glorified at the age of 120 they are also given a new name to go along with being an immortal being that cannot die rather than an eternal being that needs to eat to remain alive.
Their journey may have a rough beginning but they also end up alive in the new earth so they are also in the Kingdom of God and that is a happy outcome. You cannot chastise people for being non-believers because it is God Himself that determined that there would be scoffers right up until the day of the 7th trump sounds. Since you cannot predict if God will gather somebody before that date so you cannot determine who will be in hell. The relationship of people and God is in the 7 letters, they are pretty clear what kind of person God naturally likes and which ones while be going to hell. That is not a reason to mock the ones in that group or think that you can coax somebody out of a group that has to exist until the day of glorification arrives. That doesn't mean you should treat somebody who is not yet gathered the same as somebody who has been gathered if they are both in the same community. Hanging with sinners while under the delusion that you are attempting to save them only gets you judged as being a sinner instead. You then have 1,000 years in hell to refine your sermons.
Twila is a girl.
According to your Quran, she should not be able to read anything, voice an opinion on anything or even be allowed to post on a forum without "adult" male suoervision (or be able to write at all!)
Are you playing the male defending the 'helpless female'? She is anything but defenseless at explaining her position or asking for clarification about some issue.
It is only you preaching, sheet head....
Many have tried to discuss. You blather on like a car salesman
You'll be shoveling poopie in the dark abyss of Hades in the midst of the great hoard of unwashed heathens such as yeself,,,selfsludge.
You see.
The Interpretation by Mewhammed Abdul Jabbar.
Nothing is going to happen to me when I'm dead. I will be dead. I will know nothing. I would have to believe there was a god and that god was as you suggest. But I don't.
hell, evil and damnation happens only to believers.
Last edited:
I'll never forget a sermon by the late EV Hill on the television about the horrors of hell. At the end of the sermon the people in the crowd were petrified and crying and working their way up to the podium at the alter call faces swollen with tears and on their knees begging for salvation from this nightmarish place. ...What a way, to demonstrate God's love. You're not much different Selfsame. Just another angle, another gimic, another ridiculous made up religion by barbaric mental midgets.
Selfsame, I was curious about what you (You) had to say.
If you hide behind this other dude, and can only justify your
beliefs by parroting the interpretation of another, and are not
here to discuss anything, but only to preach, and then post
someone's opinions....why do you bother?
If you're not here to debate or discuss anything, but only to
attempt to recruit (which isn't going well), why don't you just
get your buddy Ali hilly Muhammed El Whatever to come and
post here as he might be capable of individual and independent
thought. Anyway, I'd like to say it's been a pleasure debating with
you, but I haven't.....only with this other dude who's not even here,
so it's hardly a debate. Good luck with the recruiting effort Selfsame.
That's just it. Is it your belief? Your interpretation of your holy book?
You just parrot this other dude....
No ones trying to strip you of your belief. We all just want to hear what YOU think about it, not what's been interpreted for you.
Your fear of saying or doing the wrong thing is loud and clear. Your fear that Allah will take offense by you thinking for yourself is loud and clear. Your fear for your personal safety in case you say something that is not muslim enough by the standards of another comes through loud and clear.
We feel bad for you that you fear expressing your self freely. But your fear is justified. Our news is filled with what happens to muslims who aren't muslim enough by the standards of others. We read what happens when someone is accused of something that is considered to be not muslim enough.
Your fear is real. We know that and its' really too bad. There is a whole world of ideas, thoughts, things to see and appreciate that you never will because you have allowed yourself to be enslaved by fear.
Maybe one day, you wont be so fearful.
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35View Post
Well the translation according many is the diagnosis of schizophrenia. Anyway, as far as I know none have come back except in dreams to give comfort to the living, oh wait.... there are children born who sometimes remember their previous families and lives. Moreover, many of these came up with stories, information that upon investigation were found to be accurate.
Jesus supposedly stated "In my Father's mansion, there are many rooms" It would be rather marvelous if the whole afterlife scenario begins or manifests, what the soul/entity or person believes upon their demise. Being a decent creator, I would think, after spending some time in the afterlife scenario of their beliefs, they would be introduced to a more logical and moderate solution to evolution of their Spirit.
Since I have no particular belief, I am free to pick and choose. Shouldn't one investigate the very best of what of a Universe Creator could conceive of, rather than choose most repugnant one??
..............................
Reply by Selfsame:...What's all this mixture and confusion: scenario manifesto schizophrenia and reincarnation?
Anyhow, praise be to God that the matter is not up to you, or else everything will be corrupted.
...................................................
How funny, so what about my post confuses you, perhaps I can contribute a wee bit of clarity for you.. About 20% of western populations believe in reincarnation. It has mainly been a belief in the East..
You must admit that any Creator that is intelligent enough to set up the Universes, really couldn't be so crass as to vindictively punish his own creations when they do not behave as programmed. Think about it......Do you harshly punish your children for not listening to your omnipotence with a lifetime of torture? So exactly why would an Entity who is supposedly, much more compassionate and forgiving than any human, behave worse than you??
How do you accept a lower form being as your God? One that purports to be less moral, just or less forgiving than it's creations??
Well the translation according many is the diagnosis of schizophrenia. Anyway, as far as I know none have come back except in dreams to give comfort to the living, oh wait.... there are children born who sometimes remember their previous families and lives. Moreover, many of these came up with stories, information that upon investigation were found to be accurate.
Jesus supposedly stated "In my Father's mansion, there are many rooms" It would be rather marvelous if the whole afterlife scenario begins or manifests, what the soul/entity or person believes upon their demise. Being a decent creator, I would think, after spending some time in the afterlife scenario of their beliefs, they would be introduced to a more logical and moderate solution to evolution of their Spirit.
Since I have no particular belief, I am free to pick and choose. Shouldn't one investigate the very best of what of a Universe Creator could conceive of, rather than choose most repugnant one??
..............................
Reply by Selfsame:...What's all this mixture and confusion: scenario manifesto schizophrenia and reincarnation?
Anyhow, praise be to God that the matter is not up to you, or else everything will be corrupted.
...................................................
How funny, so what about my post confuses you, perhaps I can contribute a wee bit of clarity for you.. About 20% of western populations believe in reincarnation. It has mainly been a belief in the East..
You must admit that any Creator that is intelligent enough to set up the Universes, really couldn't be so crass as to vindictively punish his own creations when they do not behave as programmed. Think about it......Do you harshly punish your children for not listening to your omnipotence with a lifetime of torture? So exactly why would an Entity who is supposedly, much more compassionate and forgiving than any human, behave worse than you??
How do you accept a lower form being as your God? One that purports to be less moral, just or less forgiving than it's creations??
Job and Solomon would agree with you.
Ec:3:20:
All go unto one place;
all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.
Ec:12:7:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ec:9:10:
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do,
do it with thy might;
for there is no work,
nor device,
nor knowledge,
nor wisdom,
in the grave,
whither thou goest.
This is true: the material body will return to earth as dust, and the spirit of man after death will return to God; i.e. to the ethereal spiritual world of souls: the Afterlife.
And the soul is to be requited, not the body.
Quran 30: 11
{It is God Who initiates the creation [from the dust] then returns it back [to the dust], then you [all] will be brought back to Him. n}
.............................................................
n i.e. your souls will be brought back for accounting and rewarding in the world of souls: the ether world.
The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
So this point of the 'returning to God' is so much many times repeated and asserted in the Quran: in a large number of ayat (or revelations.)
==============================================================
Some people here love the 'wrangling', and these will not agree with any idea, even that the day light is by the sun.
So I will only reply to those who like to know more, while such wrangler .. it is useless to spend time discussing to them, they will not agree and they in fact are misguied; so can anyone guide the one misguided by God!?
This is according to the Quran 4: 88, which means:
{How is it with you [Muslims] that you have become two parties [with two opinions] concerning the hypocrites a, while in fact God has immersed them [in their sins b] because of [their transgression on people and the sins] that they earned?
Do you [Muslims] desire [then] to guide [to the Islam and invite to it] those whom God has misguided [because of their wrong-doing]?
Whom God misguides [from the way of truth], you [men] will not find for him any way [to be saved and be guided aright.]}
...................................................................
a One party are certain that those men are disbelievers, and the other party are certain that they have become Muslims.
Had they truly become Muslims, then they would have come back to you; but they in fact are disbelievers, so don't decide that they are Muslims.
b i.e. God has drowned them in their sins and transgression.
The reason for revealing the above aya:
[Some of the idolaters came to Medina for trading and for some Worldly affairs, and when they arrived at Medina they pretended of becoming Muslims. Then when they accomplished their business they intended to return back to Mecca, and when the Muslims asked them about the reason for their going back, they said: "We want to go back to our families in order to carry our luggage and furniture and return back to you."
Then when they did not come back for a considerable period of time, the Muslims differed about them: some said: "They apostatized from the Islam, and will never come back", while others said: "They have become Muslims, but some circumstances hindered them, and they will certainly come back later on."
Therefore, this aya was revealed:]
The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
============================================================
If you are true in your words and that you only say your own words, why did you in the post #48 cite the words of the atheists?
Such drawings which fill the sites of atheists and the non-religious propaganda everywhere!?
==================================================================
Keep your advice for yourself; I don't take with consideration the words of atheists and disbelievers: because you are misguided and deluded. I don't fear as you say .. only I fear God Almighty and Most Gracious. And you are not God fearing, so you will not receive the admonition of the Quran.
========================================================================
I said that God - be glorified - challenged Jews, who claimed being chosen and preferred by God; so He challenged them to long for death, if they are true in their claim.
Because when they die, and if they are truly preferred and chosen by God and God loves them, then when they will they die they will go to Paradise in heaven to prosper there and then God will not punish them: because they are chosen and preferred.
Then in the next aya, God said: that they will never long for death, on account of their much wrong-doing: they wrong people and plunder their rights and transgress on others.
After that in the third aya: Quran 62: 8, God - be glorified - explained that they cling to the life of the world:
8. Say [Mohammed to them:] "Death which you try to evade will inevitably overtake you h, then [following your death] shall you be brought back to [the judgment of God] Who knows [both] the hidden and the open [of your deeds]; and then He shall inform [and punish] you about what [evil deeds] you have done.
........................................................
h And none can escape.
Moreover, God - be glorified - said in the Quran 2: 96, which means:
{You will find [Jews] the greediest among [all] people [of the heavenly religions] for life;
and [even greedier] than those [idolaters and Magians] who associate [others with God];
a [Each] one of [Jews] wishes to be granted a life of a thousand years.
But to live [any long life] will by no means [hardly] remove him [even a little bit] away from the doom [of Hell] b;
for God is All-Seeing all that they do [so He will accordingly punish them in the Next Life.]}
...........................................................
a [Then God explained how they covet to live long life in the World.]
b It means: giving man a long life will not save him from the punishment, but it is the God-fearing and the righteous deeds that save man from the doom.
And if anyone of them stays in the World for one thousand years, thinking about any way to save him from God's punishment, then he will not find any way other than the belief in God and the compliance to Him.
The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
Last edited:
How do you know the Hill Billy's interpretation is correct? Did Allah confirm it? Sounds like he's just got a hard-on for hate ... and you're swallowing it
