What do you look for in a party leader?

[Machjo]

The electorate votes for an MP. The members of a leaddership convention vote for a leader. Since the post is vague (intentional) and rife with inconsistancies, people make the assumption that you are talking to the 99% of the population that is not part of a "party"

Try to be specific and not nebulous when you post and thread. You can allows go back and correct your inconsitancies with the edit function

I found the OP quite clear. What was unclear was why non-members of the NDP should be consulted on who the party leader should be. I interpreted that to suggest that non-members of a political party should have a say in who the leader is, perhaps on the assumption that parties are public entities that belong to the people or some notion of the sort. In my opinion, they are purely private entities and how the leader of a party is picked is the business of the membership of the party and no one else's. He doesn't even have to be elected democratically, in fact. As long as political parties respect the law of the land, as private organizations, just like religious or other organizations, are free to choose their party leadership however the hell they want to.

Imagine if a post were put up asking what you look for in a Pope. It woud just seem strange in forum like Canadian Content that is not officially Catholic. After all, it's none of our business what virtues are sought for in the Pope unless we're Catholic ourselves. I'm not Catholic, so it's none of my business either. CanCon is not an officially New Democratic forum either, so why would we be debating what standards the NDP ought to have in choosing a leader.
That's just how I'd nderstood the OP.

 

[Tyler]

Hi Machjo. Apologies if there was confusion. Nevertheless, you gave pretty good arguments to the question. The question was supposed to be general, and not necessarily tied to the article. I wanted to pose the question for Liberals, Conservatives, NDP or whatever smaller party they belonged. What kind of characteristics would they want in a leader to represent their party of choice?

And even those who are NOT a party member and can not cast a vote, they can still have a say in what the look for.

Back on topic, did you find an answer to the other poster's claim about whether a non-Canadian can cast a vote? That was something new to me.

 

[Francis2004]

They could be members of parties all they want, and vote accordingly on their own, but that wouldn't change the fact that their party would not be mentioned on ballots and their parties would receive no public funding. This would put independent candidates on at least a slightly more equal footing with their partisan counterparts in elections, which would already be a step in the right direction.


No what you are asking is that a Party be elected by Independents without funding.. Of course that is impossible as you cannot run a party with no funds.. I voted for an Independent in my riding last election and would have loved for that person to have won. Fact of the matter is I would never want to vote for someone without knowledge of who they represent and find out AFTER the election.. Kinda defeats the point of knowing who and what you vote for..

Were you not aware that MP's receive a salary? I'm talking about party funding, not MP's salaries. What's there to confuse about that?


No kidding... Lets see how much they make and "under your plan" how each would cut each others throat for a position..

Parliamentary Function
Type of Indemnity

Salary​

Member of the House of Commons
Basic Sessional Indemnity Members who occupy certain offices and positions are entitled to additional remuneration in accordance with the Parliament of Canada Act as listed.

$155,400.00​

Prime Minister
Salary

$155,400.00​

Prime Minister
Car Allowance

$2,122.00​

Minister
Salary

$74,400.00​

Minister
Car Allowance

$2,122.00​

Minister of State
Salary

$74,400.00​

Secretary of State
Salary

$55,800.00​

Parliamentary Secretary
Salary

$15,600.00​

Speaker of the House of Commons
Salary

$74,400.00​

Speaker of the House of Commons
Car Allowance

$1,061.00​

Speaker of the House of Commons
Rent Allowance

$3,000.00​

Deputy Speaker of the House of Commons
Salary

$38,600.00​

Deputy Speaker of the House of Commons
Rent Allowance

$1,500.00​

Leader of the Opposition in the House of Commons
Salary

$74,400.00​

Leader of the Opposition in the House of Commons
Car Allowance

$2,122.00​

Leader - Other Parties
Salary

$52,900.00​

Opposition House Leader
Salary

$38,600.00​

House Leader - Other Parties
Salary

$15,600.00​

Deputy House Leaders - Government and Official Opposition
Salary

$15,600.00​

Deputy House Leaders - Other Parties
Salary

$5,600.00​

Whip
Chief Government Whip - Salary

$28,000.00​

Whip
Chief Opposition Whip - Salary

$28,000.00​

Whip
Whip - Other Parties - Salary

$11,000.00​

Whip
Deputy Whip - Other Parties - Salary

$5,600.00​

Caucus Chair - Government and Official Opposition
Salary

$11,000.00​

Caucus Chair - Other Parties
Salary

$5,600.00​

Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole
Salary

$15,600.00​

Assistant Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole
Salary

$15,600.00​

Chair of Standing and Standing Joint Committee
Salary excluding the Liaison Committee and the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament

$11,000.00​

Vice-chair of Standing and Standing Joint Committee
Salary excluding the Liaison Committee and the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament

$5,600.00 ​

Bottom of Form​

Indemnities, Salaries and Allowances

I'm aware of that, and the only people to blame for this is us, the ignorant masses. Out of fear of having a worse evil win an election, they vote strategically, which only strengthens the status quo. What more do we want?

Many things get slipped by in political parties and passed by the public.. Many of "us" do not want the system as it is.. We want honesty and accountability.. That is why I left politics..

 

[JLM]

---
Wow... you are still referring to a general election. A leadership convention is something completely different, you don't have to be in the same riding as the candidate.

Also, I don't think your condescending tone is really necessary. Unless you can admit that you either have nothing better to do, or you're not one of the intelligent people?

Just want to emphasize that you can make a point without being patronizing. Please, keep this thread clean.

I certainly don't consider myself breathing/living politics. I do some amateur writing, and community organizing. I do get in touch with some local politicians. My career is in the realm of politics. Nevertheless, I think most people in the forum, including myself have limited 'political credentials'.

The forum is for people to exchange ideas and learn. There really is no need to stamp on someone's head if they're wrong using analogies such as 'mentally challenged' or 'having your snout in trough'.

Sorry Tyler, just expressing MY opinion which I always thought was as good as anyone elses, but I guess if like minded people as yourself had their way, it would be suppressed. I didn't think I said anything "unclean" and I certainly wasn't trying to patronize anyone.

 

[JLM]

---
Wow... you are still referring to a general election. A leadership convention is something completely different, you don't have to be in the same riding as the candidate.

Also, I don't think your condescending tone is really necessary. Unless you can admit that you either have nothing better to do, or you're not one of the intelligent people?

Just want to emphasize that you can make a point without being patronizing. Please, keep this thread clean.

I certainly don't consider myself breathing/living politics. I do some amateur writing, and community organizing. I do get in touch with some local politicians. My career is in the realm of politics. Nevertheless, I think most people in the forum, including myself have limited 'political credentials'.

The forum is for people to exchange ideas and learn. There really is no need to stamp on someone's head if they're wrong using analogies such as 'mentally challenged' or 'having your snout in trough'.

I was referring to any kind of election. If you reread the question you will see it asks "what do you look for in a party leader", which I would say leaves it open to fairly "liberal" (excuse the pun) interpretation. Actually I was thinking of replying "buys all the booze and food and pays for a taxi home for everyone".

 

[Machjo]

No what you are asking is that a Party be elected by Independents without funding.. Of course that is impossible as you cannot run a party with no funds.. I voted for an Independent in my riding last election and would have loved for that person to have won. Fact of the matter is I would never want to vote for someone without knowledge of who they represent and find out AFTER the election.. Kinda defeats the point of knowing who and what you vote for..

I have nothing against a party being a registered charity, which they are already by the way. I'm not a member of any party, so why should my tax dollars go to them when I get no say and want no say in how they operate? If the members like their party so much, they can give all the money they want. I'm not against parties getting funding. I'm against parties getting funding from non-members, and taxpayers at that.

As for independent candidates, I'm saying they should be legally recognized as independent candidates on ballots and in parliament. If a party member wants to run as an independent in an election (no contradiction here. I'm saying he's a member of a party, and he's free to mention that in an election, but as a candidate he's officially listed as a candidate, no mention of the party), and his party decides to sponsor him with money gotten from members, not the taxpayer, then by all means. But by not legally recognizing parties at all, it would de-emphasize party power. If the membership doesn't care enough to give money to their party, then why should we?


No kidding... Lets see how much they make and "under your plan" how each would cut each others throat for a position..

Exactly. With such salaries, couldn't they give of their own money to the party if they care about it so much?


Many things get slipped by in political parties and passed by the public.. Many of "us" do not want the system as it is.. We want honesty and accountability.. That is why I left politics.

That I can understand.

 

[Tyr]

Definitely not this...

 

[Tyr]

Good grief...

Inconsistencies? The article is about the Ontario NDP Leadership Debate! Perhaps, I am guilty in assuming that most people know that the candidates were campaigning for the support for NDP members.

On the other hand, I don't think I'm guilty of that because aside from Tyr, it seems like everyone knows what's going on or at least prudent and humble enough to learn.

Side note, I'm really enjoying the intellectual discussion by Machjo and SirFrancis.

Why would I INTENTIONALLY mislead audience into thinking otherwise with inconsistencies?? It just seems like you're covering your ignorance by accusing me for being 'inconsistent'. This was not even a matter of political opinion; but of political structure! I don't understand why there can be such a long argument about this...

Like I already said, people make mistake It's okay for you to make mistakes, I make mistakes, but you shouldn't put the blame on others.

Go back to your previous posts. You've insisted few times that 'we don't get to vote for the leader.' Period.

Enough of this silliness. If you want the last word, go for it. Continue to accuse me of whatever...

I don't want this silliness and ignorance to interrupt the actual important topic being discussed.

Much thanks to all other posters for a good discussion.

I make mistakes

Apology accepted