Voting is least important

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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It's time again to visit an old myth about democratic republics.

Voting.

The least important ingredient of a democratic republic is VOTING.

If you don't have laws safeguarding us from the tyranny of the majority, then voting promises great harm.

If you don't have safeguards against the centralization and accumulation of power then voting becomes meaningless.

If you don't have safeguards protecting private property, then voting can either be dangerous or impotent.

If you don't have safequards protecting certain rights that cannot be alienated from our own person, then what permanent protection can voting offer you?

Voting reflects zeitgeist, crowd psychology.

Voting depends on the randomness of each voter's education of the issues.

Voting is a comet blazing through the firmament.

:)
 

Adriatik

Electoral Member
Oct 31, 2008
125
3
18
Montreal
It's time again to visit an old myth about democratic republics.

Voting.

The least important ingredient of a democratic republic is VOTING.

If you don't have laws safeguarding us from the tyranny of the majority, then voting promises great harm.

If you don't have safeguards against the centralization and accumulation of power then voting becomes meaningless.

If you don't have safeguards protecting private property, then voting can either be dangerous or impotent.

If you don't have safequards protecting certain rights that cannot be alienated from our own person, then what permanent protection can voting offer you?

Voting reflects zeitgeist, crowd psychology.

Voting depends on the randomness of each voter's education of the issues.

Voting is a comet blazing through the firmament.

:)


I like, I like. Makes sense.

Might I add that voting could be dangerous because: who ever said that people know what's best for them or for the country? I mean examples of people making bad decisions and choices are countless, making mistakes are part of life. If people are able to make mistakes and lack good judgement in their personal lives than what shelters them from doing the same when deciding upon the fate of a nation? I don't think people in general vote for the greater good of the nation, they vote for THEIR greater good.

It's sad to say this but people sometimes need someone to tell them what's best for them and the country...

That's why people need good leaders to guide them but last news is that the store's all out of those... Just this in, Canada doesn't have a real leader! Hasn't had one since I can remember...

Where oh where are you great leader?
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
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I like, I like. Makes sense.

Might I add that voting could be dangerous because: who ever said that people know what's best for them or for the country? I mean examples of people making bad decisions and choices are countless, making mistakes are part of life. If people are able to make mistakes and lack good judgement in their personal lives than what shelters them from doing the same when deciding upon the fate of a nation? I don't think people in general vote for the greater good of the nation, they vote for THEIR greater good.

It's sad to say this but people sometimes need someone to tell them what's best for them and the country...

That's why people need good leaders to guide them but last news is that the store's all out of those... Just this in, Canada doesn't have a real leader! Hasn't had one since I can remember...

Where oh where are you great leader?


while I see jim's point, your response is very similar to what i'd expect from a dictator....
 

Adriatik

Electoral Member
Oct 31, 2008
125
3
18
Montreal
while I see jim's point, your response is very similar to what i'd expect from a dictator....


Well sorry to deceive you but I'm far from being a dictator. I just see the obvious, what people don't want to admit...

So by calling me a dictator, you are basically saying that people are always right when they make decisions and always make the right choice? That people have never screwed up ever?

If you could prove the opposite, then I may consider your comment to be well-founded.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Since when is it most important that people get whats best for them?

Its most important that people make their own choices and mistakes, thats why we become adults instead of staying children our whole lives.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
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Ottawa, ON
while I see jim's point, your response is very similar to what i'd expect from a dictator....

But there is indeed a point to it. After all, Hitler was democratically elected. And the current Pakistani government is less extremist when under military rule than under democracy. In fact, the Pakistani government gets a lot of heat from the general population for its relationship with the US government and for cracking down on Al Qaeda. So do you want Pakistan to call elections any time soon? Try it, and you'll have another Afghanistan on your hands.

Honestly, with the amount of criticism of democracy itself coming from the West in recent years, I get the feeling that we're soon going to start to experiment with post-democratic political theories. My guess is that they're going to be some kind of blend between democracy and monarchy or something of the sort, as a means of limiting power on the part of any one person while still controlling the excesses of democracy, such as kneejerk reactions to events.
 

GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
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Every vote counts ,when stratedgy doesn't prove otherwise..If all was fair and even ...If everyone voted!....Who would win?////The people////DEMOCRACY!lol
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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Its most important that people make their own choices and mistakes, thats why we become adults instead of staying children our whole lives.

That's debatable! I look around and i see a bunch of retarded adolescents, especially with our so called leaders. We live in a corporate dictatorship and we are all slaves to dept, personal and governmental. (notice that the last six letters spell mental?) Perhaps when 100% are smart enough to educate themselves about politics, are not emotionally stunted and easily influenced by media spin doctors and don't get hysterical about nothing and vote you might have a democracy.

But generally speaking, we don't qualify as any of the above.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,299
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Vernon, B.C.
Its most important that people make their own choices and mistakes, thats why we become adults instead of staying children our whole lives.

That's debatable! I look around and i see a bunch of retarded adolescents, especially with our so called leaders. We live in a corporate dictatorship and we are all slaves to dept, personal and governmental. (notice that the last six letters spell mental?) Perhaps when 100% are smart enough to educate themselves about politics, are not emotionally stunted and easily influenced by media spin doctors and don't get hysterical about nothing and vote you might have a democracy.

But generally speaking, we don't qualify as any of the above.

It's beyond repair.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Its most important that people make their own choices and mistakes, thats why we become adults instead of staying children our whole lives.

That's debatable! I look around and i see a bunch of retarded adolescents, especially with our so called leaders. We live in a corporate dictatorship and we are all slaves to dept, personal and governmental. (notice that the last six letters spell mental?) Perhaps when 100% are smart enough to educate themselves about politics, are not emotionally stunted and easily influenced by media spin doctors and don't get hysterical about nothing and vote you might have a democracy.

But generally speaking, we don't qualify as any of the above.

Democracy does not mean well governed, only that it is the government the people deserve.

And to me I'd rather live in a bad society we chose than a good society imposed upon us.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Democracy does not mean well governed, only that it is the government the people deserve.

And to me I'd rather live in a bad society we chose than a good society imposed upon us.

There's something very primal with that statement I think. You'd freely chose hell rather than the imposition of heaven. Resentment of power external to the self,hmmmmm? Assendant self-determination as often as not leads to the destruction of the unprepared. Pride goeth before the fall etc; blah blah
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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There's something very primal with that statement I think. You'd freely chose hell rather than the imposition of heaven. Resentment of power external to the self,hmmmmm? Assendant self-determination as often as not leads to the destruction of the unprepared. Pride goeth before the fall etc; blah blah

If you ever read the medieval descriptions of the afterlife its alot closer to oblivion than paradise. Ones soul is first purified of all individuality and independant thought in Purgatory.

What can I say, I was born with a piece of the apple lodged in my throat and Im not willing to give it up.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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If you ever read the medieval descriptions of the afterlife its alot closer to oblivion than paradise. Ones soul is first purified of all individuality and independant thought in Purgatory.

So what you're saying then is that this is Purgatory. We're living it now.

Everything we see, everything we read, and everything we think we know is carefully controlled to further some agenda.

Whether that agenda be a religious one (that's right, I'm bashing religion again, get used to it) or a marketing campaign to get you to buy something you don't need, and even views of the authors of fiction have definite agendas attached, that we are going to either accept or reject.

But they are not our own values that we are deciding upon, but those put forth by others.

We see it in any news outlet, a subtle yet defined bias, promoting one set of values or another.

Political Parties define their platforms by what the caucus agrees upon, and expect you to vote for them based on every plank, whether you agree with all of them or not.

The books we read, the TV we watch etc, we bring here and try to put forth as our ideas...but they are only those that we've bought into...to be paid for at a later time...
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
191
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Nakusp, BC
Vanni,

That was almost an original thought :)

We are sponges. We absorb information, experiences and emotions. All of it makes up what we consider our consciousness. There are no two people alike and no two awareness the same. So each individual brings to the table a unique perspective on life and that is the value of dialogue. The value of each person is that they filter information through their experience and if we are wise, we can learn from listening to others, even those we may consider idiots.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Winchester Virginia
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Since when is it most important that people get whats best for them?

Its most important that people make their own choices and mistakes, thats why we become adults instead of staying children our whole lives.

Good point, Zzarchov.

It's a deeper point than a first glance gives it.

But, nevertheless, the fact that we put too much emphasis on voting and not the other more important institutions is something we see go wrong time and time again in nation-building, whether done by an occupier or by the indigents.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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And I think that is a good idea. I don't think you should have to vote FOR anyone, there should be a "no opinion" option on the ballot. But when you have mandatory voting, you also get rid of attempt to keep people from voting. There is no need to "bring out the vote", its already been brought.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Winchester Virginia
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"None of the Above" as a choice should win everytime.
That would steal the claim to a mandate by the winner.

But is that good?

Maybe claiming a mandate unifies an electorate after a slim victory.

I've seen close elections occur and then after the candidate who won by such a slim
margin becomes very popular giving you the impression they won with a clear mandate later.

But, still, I find mandatory voting oppressive and ridiculous. I don't want everyone voting. Division of Labor. And the get-out-the-vote is one way to spread news of what is going on, good or bad.

And...

Again, not only do I find voting to be the least important ingredient of a healthy democratic republic, but I find we pay too much attention to tinkeering with all the voting procedures.

I'd prefer to tinker with the structure of governing, such as checks and balances, line-item veto, getting rid of Christmas Tree bills where unrelated items are tagged on to the bill, non-partisan commissions doing the research and recommending, determining what conflict of interest laws do...
 
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