US Invasion of Iraq-Updates

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Re: RE: US Invasion of Iraq-U

Reverend Blair said:
About the cradle of civilisation...

Iraq, specifically the area where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers form a flood plain, is the area where the oldest evidence of cultivated (as opposed to wild) grain has been found. There is also some evidence that it is the area where animals were first dometicated.

Since farming was the beginning of civilisation as we know it, people moving into permanent settlements instead of being nomadic hunter-gatherers, Iraq would indeed be the cradle of civilisation.

this is my understanding from "history " too. "Cradle of civilization" is also a metaphorical description of a time , place and era.

( an aside but quite relevant: Many in the US study US history primarily and are very well versed in it. But according to family who live in the US.......schooling does not include all that much about other nations history. Many in the US know squat about Canada today , let alone CDN history.......and Cda is their neighbor. any nation more distant is really a foreign language to them. What they do learn is off their TEEVEES. --and what their gov't tells them.---so it might be an idea to offer the US contigency here a little latitude . )
 

PoisonPete2

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Apr 9, 2005
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Re: RE: US Invasion of Iraq-U

Reverend Blair said:
About the cradle of civilisation...

Iraq, specifically the area where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers form a flood plain, is the area where the oldest evidence of cultivated (as opposed to wild) grain has been found. There is also some evidence that it is the area where animals were first dometicated.

Since farming was the beginning of civilisation as we know it, people moving into permanent settlements instead of being nomadic hunter-gatherers, Iraq would indeed be the cradle of civilisation.

Rev is quick on the keys. got it out before i could.
As an aside. Ghandi was asked what he though of Western Civilization. He responded that it would be a good idea.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Re: RE: US Invasion of Iraq-U

bulldog said:
moghrabi said:
This whole area is known as the cradle of civilization. However, Iraq is the one that historians believe to be the true one. many thousands of years of history.

As for an apology, I owe you nothing of that sort. I never apologize to an ignorant.

Boy, yo mama must be pissed at you.

Mog: "As for women, first check how the west treats women. They are treated as sexual objects. Even when you go shopping, they show you the thong underwear, or the belly-button t-shirt and so on. What does that mean? It means a woman is an object that you dress up that will make you sexually aroused and have sex with her. After that she is nothing to you."

So your mother was nothing to your father, and you were their unwanted by-product? That's pretty ignorant. In my family, my mother and dad loved each other very much, and each had mutual respect for the other. No one ever became "nothing." On the contrary, I was their everything - and when I lost my last parent, I lost a part of myself and my soul. There couldn't be more love and respect in a family than in mine.

Bull Dog

Where in my post did I ever say that my mother was nothing to my father. To the contrary, eastern families are familial. You will see love in every move. Look at the Greek culture very similar to the ME.

Maybe you jumped to line and assumed I was talking about my western parents, I have none.
 

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Re: RE: US Invasion of Iraq-U

moghrabi said:
Where in my post did I ever say that my mother was nothing to my father. To the contrary, eastern families are familial. You will see love in every move. Look at the Greek culture very similar to the ME.
Maybe you jumped to line and assumed I was talking about my western parents, I have none.

You hit that one on the nose, very similar in general perceptions also.
 

Jo Canadian

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Mar 15, 2005
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PEI...for now
 

Ocean Breeze

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Oil and Blood
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By BOB HERBERT
Published: July 28, 2005
It is now generally understood that the U.S.-led war in Iraq has become a debacle. Nevertheless, Iraqis are supposed to have their constitution ratified and a permanent government elected by the end of the year. It's a logical escape hatch for George W. Bush. He could declare victory, as a senator once suggested to Lyndon Johnson in the early years of Vietnam, and bring the troops home as quickly as possible.

His mantra would be: There's a government in place. We won. We're out of there.

But don't count on it. The Bush administration has no plans to bring the troops home from this misguided war, which has taken a fearful toll in lives and injuries while at the same time weakening the military, damaging the international reputation of the United States, serving as a world-class recruiting tool for terrorist groups and blowing a hole the size of Baghdad in Washington's budget.

A wiser leader would begin to cut some of these losses. But the whole point of this war, it seems, was to establish a long-term military presence in Iraq to ensure American domination of the Middle East and its precious oil reserves, which have been described, the author Daniel Yergin tells us, as "the greatest single prize in all history."

You can run through all the wildly varying rationales for this war: the weapons of mass destruction (that were never found), the need to remove the unmitigated evil of Saddam (whom we had once cozied up to), the connection to Al Qaeda (which was bogus), and one of President Bush's favorites, the need to fight the terrorists "over there" so we won't have to fight them here at home.

All the rationales have to genuflect before "The Prize," which was the title of Mr. Yergin's Pulitzer-Prize-winning book.

It's the oil, stupid.

What has so often gotten lost in all the talk about terror and weapons of mass destruction is the fact that for so many of the most influential members of the Bush administration, the obsessive desire to invade Iraq preceded the Sept. 11 attacks. It preceded the Bush administration. The neoconservatives were beating the war drums on Iraq as far back as the late 1990's.

Iraq was supposed to be a first step. Iran was also in the neoconservatives' sights. The neocons envisaged U.S. control of the region (and its oil), to be followed inevitably by the realization of their ultimate dream, a global American empire. Of course it sounds like madness, which is why we should have been paying closer attention from the beginning.

The madness took a Dr. Strangelovian turn in the summer of 2002, before the war with Iraq was launched. As The Washington Post first reported, an influential Pentagon advisory board was given a briefing prepared by a Rand Corporation analyst who said the U.S. should consider seizing the oil fields and financial assets of Saudi Arabia if it did not stop its support of terrorism.

Mercifully the briefing went nowhere. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said it did not represent the "dominant opinion" within the administration.

The point here is that the invasion of Iraq was part of a much larger, long-term policy that had to do with the U.S. imposing its will, militarily when necessary, throughout the Middle East and beyond. The war has gone badly, and the viciousness of the Iraq insurgency has put the torch to the idea of further pre-emptive adventures by the Bush administration.

But dreams of empire die hard. American G.I.'s are dug into Iraq, and the bases have been built for a long stay. The war may be going badly, but the primary consideration is that there is still a tremendous amount of oil at stake, the second-largest reserves on the planet. And neocon fantasies aside, the global competition for the planet's finite oil reserves intensifies by the hour.

Lyndon Johnson ignored the unsolicited advice of Senator George Aiken of Vermont - to declare victory in Vietnam in 1966. The war continued for nearly a decade. Many high-level government figures believe that U.S. troops will be in Iraq for a minimum of 5 more years, and perhaps 10.

That should be understood by the people who think that the formation of a permanent Iraqi government will lead to the withdrawal of American troops. There is no real withdrawal plan. The fighting and the dying will continue indefinitely


The bush mantra cannot be taken seriously.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Halliburton announces 284 percent increase in war profits
Halliburton Watch



25 July 2005
WASHINGTON, July 25 (HalliburtonWatch.org) -- Halliburton announced on Friday that its KBR division, responsible for carrying out Pentagon contracts, experienced a 284 percent increase in operating profits during the second quarter of this year.

The increase in profits was primarily due to the Pentagon's payment of "award fees" for what military officials call "good" or "very good" work done by KBR in the Middle East for America's taxpayers and the troops.

Despite the scandals that plague KBR's military contracts, the Pentagon awarded $70 million in "award" fees to the company, along with four ratings of "excellent" and two ratings of "very good" for the troop logistics work under the Army's LOGCAP contract.

The Pentagon has provided preferential treatment to Halliburton on a number of occasions, including the concealment from the public of critical reports by military auditors.

Audits conducted by the Pentagon's Defense Contract Audit Agency determined that KBR had $1 billion in "questioned" expenses (i.e. expenses which military auditors consider "unreasonable") and $442 million in "unsupported" expenses (i.e. expenses which military auditors have determined contain no receipt or any explanation on how the expenses were disbursed).

But the top Pentagon brass ignored these audits and rewarded KBR's work anyway.

Halliburton's earnings announcement comes on the heels of new reports showing the Iraq and Afghan wars have already cost U.S. taxpayers $314 billion and that another ten years of war will cost $700 billion.

In another coup for Halliburton, a federal judge this month decided that whistleblowers may not sue U.S. companies for fraud if payment for services was made in Iraqi, not U.S., money. Halliburton was paid over $1 billion in Iraqi oil money during the first 15 months of the occupation. The judge's ruling means the False Claims Act cannot be used to offer large rewards to corporate insiders who reveal wrongdoing or overcharges for services. The law is considered America's most successful deterrent against contractor fraud, but the judge's decision will help Halliburton and other contractors avoid tough scrutiny in Iraq.


war and PROFIT. War FOR profit??
 

moghrabi

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May 25, 2004
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RE: US Invasion of Iraq-U

Very true indeed. I wish they listen to him. America is turning Lebanon into anotheer civil war. But I can bet you it will not happen this time. people are more understanding of the US intentions.
 

moghrabi

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May 25, 2004
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RE: US Invasion of Iraq-U

These are routine trips OB. They are very important that these high level people go to Iraq to make sure the Civil War will happen.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Re: RE: US Invasion of Iraq-U

moghrabi said:
These are routine trips OB. They are very important that these high level people go to Iraq to make sure the Civil War will happen.
:wink:

Rummey seems to be a regular there now. (wonder if he gets frequent flyer bonuses :wink:

Wondering too , if this Iraq mess will be the USG last hurrah......(for a while anyhow) The consequences of this are mindboggling.--- as are the chain of events that have unfolded.
 

Ocean Breeze

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I think not said:
They managed to get 1 million signatures? Fascinating accomplishment.

it's a LOT more than that. They are MOTIVATED and they CARE enough to do this. There is a MESSAGE there to the USG .

Is the USG listening??? Or will it ignore this as it does anything that opposes their plan
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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I think not said:
I'm just wondering why 1/10th of 1% only showed up. :scratch:

could it be that many are simply trying to stay safe /clear from either the .....um.."insurgents" or US bombs???/firepower??

or tending to their injured/maimed family members?? (maybe??)

the fact that so many did , is impressive on it's own.