US Government is Closed!

captain morgan

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So what's wrong with that? That is a good thing. If you have a run off within a week, shouldn't be a big concern.
Run off elections are the worst fears of the 'ruling class'. But a real triumph of democracy, as they allow fore everyone to have an effective voice.

It's just optics though... The electorate now goes back and votes for their second choice (those whose party got bumped).

No it isn't! It is a majority of seat won with a minority of the votes. In most ridings they won with less than 50% of the vote and overall they only had 38%. You can try to twist it to a majority however you like but 60% of Canadians voted against Harper and the conservatives. That is hardly a resounding mandate from the populace.

I get what you're saying, but the fact remains that the party that had the most popular support got (gets) in.

And, lets not forget that an even bigger majority voted (collectively) against the other parties that ran... Don't forget to recognize that little reality
 

B00Mer

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Obama Solyndra.. now the US Gov't.
 

taxslave

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OTOH we don't want a two-party system like the US. It leads to US-style stagnation. As well a minority government is always better for people than an ideological majority.





Probably the first intelligent post you ever made. As many years of Lib majorities have proven.
 

pgs

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Rather an odd interpretation of what happened. Joe Clark was not ousted mid term, rather his government was defeated in a non confidence vote. Not the same thing. In fact it would be next to impossible to oust a sitting PM short of a criminal conviction or possibly a recall vote in his/her riding.
Yes Trudeau created a non confidence motion got enough votes and forced an election won and promptly enacted the legislation Clark was proposing . One of my awakening moments as to liberal hypocracy .
 

PoliticalNick

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Yes Trudeau created a non confidence motion got enough votes and forced an election won and promptly enacted the legislation Clark was proposing . One of my awakening moments as to liberal hypocracy .

Now if you will only wake up to proper spelling....HYPOCRISY! :p
 

pgs

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Now if you will only wake up to proper spelling....HYPOCRISY! :p
Well excuse me but if that's all your worried about I will be sure to read your posts with a fine tooth comb, to insure proper grammer and spelling. And no I am to lazy to use spell check because I could care less if I spell hypocrisy wrong .
 

JLM

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Well excuse me but if that's all your worried about I will be sure to read your posts with a fine tooth comb, to insure proper grammer and spelling. And no I am to lazy to use spell check because I could care less if I spell hypocrisy wrong .

Like a lot of us old coots he probably comes from an era when correct spelling was deemed important! -:)
 

hunboldt

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It's just optics though... The electorate now goes back and votes for their second choice (those whose party got bumped).



I get what you're saying, but the fact remains that the party that had the most popular support got (gets) in.

And, lets not forget that an even bigger majority voted (collectively) against the other parties that ran... Don't forget to recognize that little reality


While I can see your logic, a run off election ensures that the MP is responsible to the people of his riding by true popular sovereignty, not to his Party machine.

Most voting is by majority rule. Legislatures, etc.
 

captain morgan

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While I can see your logic, a run off election ensures that the MP is responsible to the people of his riding by true popular sovereignty, not to his Party machine.

Most voting is by majority rule. Legislatures, etc.


A run-off election ensures no such thing. This horse sh*t about responsibility, sovereignty, etc is nothing but a catch-phrase... Please don't tell me that you have any faith in the elected officials (or those seeking such) that they are upstanding and honorable people, magically beholden to the electorate in their riding
 

SLM

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Mar 5, 2011
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Please don't tell me that you have any faith in the elected officials (or those seeking such) that they are upstanding and honorable people, magically beholden to the electorate in their riding

We need a electoral system that allows us to put the thumb screws to the bastards, lol. Keep 'em in line. That's what we need. :)
 

captain morgan

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We need a electoral system that allows us to put the thumb screws to the bastards, lol. Keep 'em in line. That's what we need. :)


No doubt... Requiring the party and all of it's representatives to forward their policies in writing in a pseudo-contract form might be a start... Break the agreement and there is a basis to have them formally removed
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
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No doubt... Requiring the party and all of it's representatives to forward their policies in writing in a pseudo-contract form might be a start... Break the agreement and there is a basis to have them formally removed

I like that. Also I think it was RCS that mentioned the notion of the taxpayers having a lawyer on retainer should parliamentarians or their provincial counterparts get too far out of line. (Think no more questionable expenses. Whoo hoo!) What about having a simultaneous ballet during elections to select that appointment, perhaps also Auditor General? Could have a small selection of candidates put forward by their respective professional associations, based on merit, career achievement, etc.

Removing as much partisan patronage appointments as possible is important because somebody's got to keep a closer eye on these s.o.b.'s.
 

tober

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A lot of countries get around this by 'run off' elections, if one candidate doesn't get at least 40 % of the popular vote. That I would really like to see.

I disagree. When we have a minority government we end up with a government responsive to what we want. A majority government, as some yanks here have noted, has the ability to be much more dictatorial. IMO we as individuals do better under minorities. The ones who complain the most about minority governments are the dedicated hacks who are determined to force ideological agendas down our throats.

If I was going to lobby for anything it would be no parties. Make everyone run as an independent like the constitution was written.

As much as I am aware of some of the pitfalls of party politics, I disagree. Politics is power. Having a powerless government is an oxymoron. 400 non-aligned individuals trying to manage a country would quickly devolve into an unending balkanized rabble. There would be no discipline. I don't think I want undisciplined power managing the country.

Rather an odd interpretation of what happened. Joe Clark was not ousted mid term, rather his government was defeated in a non confidence vote. Not the same thing. In fact it would be next to impossible to oust a sitting PM short of a criminal conviction or possibly a recall vote in his/her riding.

A non-confidence vote is a mid-term eviction by definition. I know there are no "terms" as such, apart from the five year constitutional limit on any parliament. Don't get too hung up on semantics. The Joe Clark government did not complete its mandate then call an election, which is the Canadian norm. It was kicked out of office.

Probably the first intelligent post you ever made. As many years of Lib majorities have proven.

I've said it often here. You are just such a purblind hater you can't read straight.

Yes Trudeau created a non confidence motion got enough votes and forced an election won and promptly enacted the legislation Clark was proposing . One of my awakening moments as to liberal hypocracy .

Spare us your tears. Are you thinking the Liberals are the only politicians to ever do that? Ours is an adversarial parliamentary system. That's how it works.
 

taxslave

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A run-off election ensures no such thing. This horse sh*t about responsibility, sovereignty, etc is nothing but a catch-phrase... Please don't tell me that you have any faith in the elected officials (or those seeking such) that they are upstanding and honorable people, magically beholden to the electorate in their riding

Well they beholden to some of the electorate in their riding or they would not get elected. Of course the losers ALWAYS claim that the rep does not listen to the concerns of the electorate.
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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While I can see your logic, a run off election ensures that the MP is responsible to the people of his riding by true popular sovereignty, not to his Party machine.

Most voting is by majority rule. Legislatures, etc.

I think as long as we have parties we will have representatives that are not going to act in the interest of the voters. What is needed is to elect independents and then get a law preventing any business or corporate donations or lobby. Then and only then will we get a govt for the people.
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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I like that. Also I think it was RCS that mentioned the notion of the taxpayers having a lawyer on retainer should parliamentarians or their provincial counterparts get too far out of line. (Think no more questionable expenses. Whoo hoo!) What about having a simultaneous ballet during elections to select that appointment, perhaps also Auditor General? Could have a small selection of candidates put forward by their respective professional associations, based on merit, career achievement, etc.

Removing as much partisan patronage appointments as possible is important because somebody's got to keep a closer eye on these s.o.b.'s.

The last thing we need involved in gvt is another lawyer.

Set the rules strongly in place that if the gvt doesn't live-up to their mandate, then the mechanisms in place to recall or dissolve gvt kick-in immediately