Nah, that would be way better. Nowadays it's all Operation Sanctimonious Patriotism.
U.S. joins big Iran-backed offensive in Iraq
- Thread starter mentalfloss
- Start date
Taking advantage of an opening ' left?
Perhaps the 'freedom' just being gained was being withheld until it became 'fashionable ' and was to include something as a grand event rather than a nation here and there gaining it over a long period of time.
Now let's see if the end justifies the means.
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There ya go. They could certainly use some help. The climate the ISholes are creating is unacceptable.
If you go back a ways you can see that I posted something similar when this whole thing started. It doesn't bother me seeing the Iranian Rev Guard and 20,000 Shiia Militia bogged down by a few thousand ISIS.
Not such a bad idea.
Works for me. Though I ain't opposed to using it as a testing ground for new weapons and tactics.
Why the U.S. Is Fighting Beside Iran in Iraq and Against It in Yemen
Tehran and Washington share an interest in re-establishing state authority in Iraq, but in Yemen their agendas diverge
Just to set the scene: In Iraq on Wednesday, U.S. warplanes began providing air cover to Iranian-backed militias in Tikrit, in a joint effort against the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS) coordinated through the Iraqi government. On the same day, 1,200 miles to the south in Yemen, the U.S. was providing guidance to Saudi pilots bombing Shia insurgents who are supported by Iran. So the U.S. was bombing Iran’s enemies in one country, and helping to bomb Iran’s allies in another.
Meanwhile, in Switzerland, American and Iranian diplomats were resuming their intense talks about how to contain Tehran’s nuclear program. Both sides insisted the negotiations were confined to matters atomic, nothing else. And that’s a good thing, because the ever-complex Middle East has never looked more so than it does at this moment.
And yet, in an important way, Wednesday’s events are wonderfully clarifying. March 26, 2015 may go down in history as the day that Arab states came out into the open to fight, putting their names and ordnance into a conflict that had been carried out by shadowy armed groups the governments quietly equipped, sheltered and cosseted, previously preserving a deniability that only muddied the situation even further.
Saudi Arabia declared it sent 100 warplanes to strike targets inside Yemen, and now has 150,000 troops standing by at the border. The intervention was backed by nine other nations, and the announced “logistical and intelligence” support of Washington, where the Saudis chose to convene the news conference revealing the campaign. The governments lined up behind the Saudis were all fellow Sunni governments—Egypt, Jordan, Sudan, Morocco, Pakistan, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and Kuwait, several providing planes of their own. Egypt, according to a fresh report, is also preparing to send troops. The only holdout from the Gulf was Oman, which prides itself on maintaining the trust of Iran: the sultan of Oman played the role of mediator when U.S. and Iranian diplomats secretly met there to talk about formally launching the nuclear negotiation.
In 1962, a coup ousted the monarchy ruling North Yemen and spawned a devastating civil war between the newly established Yemen Arab Republic and royalist forces. The conflict, which drew Egypt in on the side of the republicans against the Saudi-backed royalists, lasted through the end of the decade
As conflict raged in the north, leftist groups in the south began to push for independence from Britain, which had controlled the port city of Aden and its surroundings since the mid-19th century. A grenade attack on British officers in December 1963 marked the beginning of an insurgency against the British known as the Aden Emergency
Under siege from pro-independence groups, the British agreed to a transfer of power and withdrew in 1967, paving the way for the communist-run People’s Republic of South Yemen
North and South Yemen finally overcame internal turmoil and occasional border clashes to agree on a unity deal in 1989. The merger the following year established the Republic of Yemen under the North’s President Ali Abdullah Saleh (right), who would remain in power until 2012
So the divide is clearly Sunni v. Shia, the same tension that created ISIS and has torn asunder Iraq and Syria. Iran’s foreign minister kindly pointed this out in an interview with Iran’s state-run satellite channel Al-Alam: “We have always warned countries from the region and the West to be careful and not enter shortsighted games and not go in the same direction as al-Qaeda and Daesh,” said Mohammad Javad Zarif, referring to ISIS by its Arabic initials.
The warning was a bit disingenuous, given Iran’s role as overlord of the Shia side of the divide. Tehran has been an essential ally of the Shi’ite-inflected Syrian regime led by President Bashar Assad, and a major player in Iraq, where on Thursday, three of the Shi’ite militias it backs announced they were dropping out of the fight for Tikrit, to protest the new American role in the battle.
In Yemen, Tehran is the primary sponsor of the Houthi tribe, providing training, arms and money. The Houthis were once largely confined to the country’s north, seat of its Zaidi brand of Shi’ism, but in September they took over the capital city of Sana. After linking up with Ali Abdullah Saleh, the longtime Yemeni president who was deposed during the Arab Spring, the Houthis marched on the southern port of Aden, where the elected president, Abed Raggo Mansour Hadi had been holed up before fleeing Yemen by boat ahead of Wednesday’s airstrikes. He was later seen meeting with the Saudi defense minister.
In peace, Yemen is an amazing country to visit. It doesn’t look like anywhere else on Earth, except maybe the illustrations in a storybook. It’s also an ideal example of what happens when a state collapses—or really, never coalesces in the first place. And that lesson really explains what the United States is doing in both Yemen and Iraq.
States were designed to bring coherence to human affairs, first and foremost by monopolizing the use of violence. In Iraq the government of Saddam Hussein used to manage that coherence—albeit brutally. And then the U.S. invasion of 2003 dismantled Iraq’s military, and distributed political power on sectarian lines. Now, in the battle against ISIS, which rushed into the void left by a state that has continued to fail, the U.S. finds itself joining Iran in an effort to re-establish the power of the weak central government in Baghdad. That government is dominated by Iraq’s Shi’ite majority—as well as by Tehran, which does not want chaos on the long border the two countries share.
Yemen, on the other hand, has never really managed to function as a state. It was two countries—plain old Yemen in the north, and the People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen in the south—as recently as 1990, when the collapse of the Soviet Union brought the cleavage to an end. Tribal authority has often trumped the state’s. And the country’s long border is with Saudi Arabia, that seat of Sunni power, and great regional rival of Tehran. Yemen, known as Arabia Felix, or “Happy Arabia” was so close to the Saudi kingdom that the border was not even demarcated until June 2000, in an agreement signed by Saleh, who like two-thirds of Yemenis, is Sunni.
So the Iranians are not terribly bothered by turmoil in Yemen, especially if the turmoil ends—as it looked like it might—with the Houthis more or less in charge, by dint of their new alliance with Saleh, and the large sections of the Yemeni military that remain loyal to him. But the end is not yet in sight, and in the meantime, al-Qaeda has maintained its most lethal branch in Yemen, and ISIS has been making its mark, claiming responsibility for the March 20 bombings of Shi’ite mosques that killed more than 130 people. The ensuing chaos forced 100 U.S. advisers off the air base from which they operated the drones that searched for al-Qaeda targets.
Those U.S. advisers are likely to return in some form behind elements of the 150,000 Saudi troops on the Yemen border awaiting orders from King Salman, photographed in his war room surrounded by generals in chocolate chip desert fatigues. The uniforms, pattrened after American combat fatigues, say a lot: First, about where the U.S. is in this fight. “We are establishing a Joint Planning Cell with Saudi Arabia to coordinate U.S. military and intelligence support,” the White House said in a statement. The other use of uniforms? Making clear, for a change, who’s actually fighting.
Why the U.S. is fighting against Iran in Yemen and beside it in Iraq
Tehran and Washington share an interest in re-establishing state authority in Iraq, but in Yemen their agendas diverge
Just to set the scene: In Iraq on Wednesday, U.S. warplanes began providing air cover to Iranian-backed militias in Tikrit, in a joint effort against the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS) coordinated through the Iraqi government. On the same day, 1,200 miles to the south in Yemen, the U.S. was providing guidance to Saudi pilots bombing Shia insurgents who are supported by Iran. So the U.S. was bombing Iran’s enemies in one country, and helping to bomb Iran’s allies in another.
Meanwhile, in Switzerland, American and Iranian diplomats were resuming their intense talks about how to contain Tehran’s nuclear program. Both sides insisted the negotiations were confined to matters atomic, nothing else. And that’s a good thing, because the ever-complex Middle East has never looked more so than it does at this moment.
And yet, in an important way, Wednesday’s events are wonderfully clarifying. March 26, 2015 may go down in history as the day that Arab states came out into the open to fight, putting their names and ordnance into a conflict that had been carried out by shadowy armed groups the governments quietly equipped, sheltered and cosseted, previously preserving a deniability that only muddied the situation even further.
Saudi Arabia declared it sent 100 warplanes to strike targets inside Yemen, and now has 150,000 troops standing by at the border. The intervention was backed by nine other nations, and the announced “logistical and intelligence” support of Washington, where the Saudis chose to convene the news conference revealing the campaign. The governments lined up behind the Saudis were all fellow Sunni governments—Egypt, Jordan, Sudan, Morocco, Pakistan, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and Kuwait, several providing planes of their own. Egypt, according to a fresh report, is also preparing to send troops. The only holdout from the Gulf was Oman, which prides itself on maintaining the trust of Iran: the sultan of Oman played the role of mediator when U.S. and Iranian diplomats secretly met there to talk about formally launching the nuclear negotiation.
In 1962, a coup ousted the monarchy ruling North Yemen and spawned a devastating civil war between the newly established Yemen Arab Republic and royalist forces. The conflict, which drew Egypt in on the side of the republicans against the Saudi-backed royalists, lasted through the end of the decade
As conflict raged in the north, leftist groups in the south began to push for independence from Britain, which had controlled the port city of Aden and its surroundings since the mid-19th century. A grenade attack on British officers in December 1963 marked the beginning of an insurgency against the British known as the Aden Emergency
Under siege from pro-independence groups, the British agreed to a transfer of power and withdrew in 1967, paving the way for the communist-run People’s Republic of South Yemen
North and South Yemen finally overcame internal turmoil and occasional border clashes to agree on a unity deal in 1989. The merger the following year established the Republic of Yemen under the North’s President Ali Abdullah Saleh (right), who would remain in power until 2012
So the divide is clearly Sunni v. Shia, the same tension that created ISIS and has torn asunder Iraq and Syria. Iran’s foreign minister kindly pointed this out in an interview with Iran’s state-run satellite channel Al-Alam: “We have always warned countries from the region and the West to be careful and not enter shortsighted games and not go in the same direction as al-Qaeda and Daesh,” said Mohammad Javad Zarif, referring to ISIS by its Arabic initials.
The warning was a bit disingenuous, given Iran’s role as overlord of the Shia side of the divide. Tehran has been an essential ally of the Shi’ite-inflected Syrian regime led by President Bashar Assad, and a major player in Iraq, where on Thursday, three of the Shi’ite militias it backs announced they were dropping out of the fight for Tikrit, to protest the new American role in the battle.
In Yemen, Tehran is the primary sponsor of the Houthi tribe, providing training, arms and money. The Houthis were once largely confined to the country’s north, seat of its Zaidi brand of Shi’ism, but in September they took over the capital city of Sana. After linking up with Ali Abdullah Saleh, the longtime Yemeni president who was deposed during the Arab Spring, the Houthis marched on the southern port of Aden, where the elected president, Abed Raggo Mansour Hadi had been holed up before fleeing Yemen by boat ahead of Wednesday’s airstrikes. He was later seen meeting with the Saudi defense minister.
In peace, Yemen is an amazing country to visit. It doesn’t look like anywhere else on Earth, except maybe the illustrations in a storybook. It’s also an ideal example of what happens when a state collapses—or really, never coalesces in the first place. And that lesson really explains what the United States is doing in both Yemen and Iraq.
States were designed to bring coherence to human affairs, first and foremost by monopolizing the use of violence. In Iraq the government of Saddam Hussein used to manage that coherence—albeit brutally. And then the U.S. invasion of 2003 dismantled Iraq’s military, and distributed political power on sectarian lines. Now, in the battle against ISIS, which rushed into the void left by a state that has continued to fail, the U.S. finds itself joining Iran in an effort to re-establish the power of the weak central government in Baghdad. That government is dominated by Iraq’s Shi’ite majority—as well as by Tehran, which does not want chaos on the long border the two countries share.
Yemen, on the other hand, has never really managed to function as a state. It was two countries—plain old Yemen in the north, and the People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen in the south—as recently as 1990, when the collapse of the Soviet Union brought the cleavage to an end. Tribal authority has often trumped the state’s. And the country’s long border is with Saudi Arabia, that seat of Sunni power, and great regional rival of Tehran. Yemen, known as Arabia Felix, or “Happy Arabia” was so close to the Saudi kingdom that the border was not even demarcated until June 2000, in an agreement signed by Saleh, who like two-thirds of Yemenis, is Sunni.
So the Iranians are not terribly bothered by turmoil in Yemen, especially if the turmoil ends—as it looked like it might—with the Houthis more or less in charge, by dint of their new alliance with Saleh, and the large sections of the Yemeni military that remain loyal to him. But the end is not yet in sight, and in the meantime, al-Qaeda has maintained its most lethal branch in Yemen, and ISIS has been making its mark, claiming responsibility for the March 20 bombings of Shi’ite mosques that killed more than 130 people. The ensuing chaos forced 100 U.S. advisers off the air base from which they operated the drones that searched for al-Qaeda targets.
Those U.S. advisers are likely to return in some form behind elements of the 150,000 Saudi troops on the Yemen border awaiting orders from King Salman, photographed in his war room surrounded by generals in chocolate chip desert fatigues. The uniforms, pattrened after American combat fatigues, say a lot: First, about where the U.S. is in this fight. “We are establishing a Joint Planning Cell with Saudi Arabia to coordinate U.S. military and intelligence support,” the White House said in a statement. The other use of uniforms? Making clear, for a change, who’s actually fighting.
Why the U.S. is fighting against Iran in Yemen and beside it in Iraq
The Administration are so naive if they think this agreement and air support are going to bring better relations between the two countries. Iran will take what we give and go back to being Iran.
So you're saying that we shouldn't prop up despotic regimes by providing them with arms then.
Where have you been in the last 30 years?
Where have you been in the last 30 years?
Keep them fighting each other so they can't turn their attentions to you. Bleed them, exhaust them, hope they kill each other.
What I think the Middle East and Africa (to an extent) is going through is what Europe went through during the 1500s to the late 1600's. It lasted about 100 years before they tired of it.
Neither side is going to win outright.
I can only imagine what the casualty count is up to and they show no signs of letting up.
Neither side is going to win outright.
I can only imagine what the casualty count is up to and they show no signs of letting up.
Hmm , Murica helping the wahhabists again. you know who else is battling the houthis? isil.
No, it's entirely different.
I've actually wondered about that. Maybe religions at about age 1400 or so start to get violent and imperialistic.
Also, it lasted a heck of a lot longer than 100 years. Between the Crusades and the Reformation and Counter-reformation, more like 400.
Huh? What are you even saying?
Most thinking people recognize that the colonization and modern exploitation by first world nations is entirely the reason for Africa's underdevelopment. And America has always meddled in the middle east, overthrowing governments etc, putting in puppets that care nothing for the citizens of the country and would rather blunder the wealth and resources only for themselves and their western puppet masters.
Most thinking people recognize that the colonization and modern exploitation by first world nations is entirely the reason for Africa's underdevelopment. And America has always meddled in the middle east, overthrowing governments etc, putting in puppets that care nothing for the citizens of the country and would rather blunder the wealth and resources only for themselves and their western puppet masters.
I was pointing specifically the European Wars of Religion... the 30 Years War, French Wars of Religion, Three Kingdom Wars, and such.
But I think we are thinking along the same topic.
LMFAO. Didn't I already tell you we would not expect you to understand?
You're dismissed Gore... this goes WAY beyond your comprehension.
Go get your coloring books.