U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Waters&

[Machjo]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Here are some links.

http://www.imli.org/docs.html

Good work Sanch. Now we can start talking facts.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Fair enough, but what happens when borders overlap? If country A and country B claim sovereignty over C, and they both have the right to defend their sovereignty, you can see there's a problem. That's how wars start!

Look at the map above and you get an idea there...you can even see the hotseat of the north Hans Island up there. It's just scratching the 200 mile limit for Canada, and is in the limit for Denmark. Personally that dispute I find rather silly. They can keep the rock, but I think the catcher is, if they do then Ellismere Island would be within their 200 limit also...where to from there eh?

 

[Machjo]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Thanks Jo.

 

[FiveParadox]

Support for Harper

On this issue, I would support the Honourable Stephen Harper. We should stand up for ourselves on the world stage; the Arctic islands and waters north of our mainland are Canadian, as far as I am concerned. We should ensure that they remain rightly so.

 

[Machjo]

Re: Support for Harper

On this issue, I would support the Honourable Stephen Harper. We should stand up for ourselves on the world stage; the Arctic islands and waters north of our mainland are Canadian, as far as I am concerned. We should ensure that they remain rightly so.

I think Harper should still stay level headed, however. We might have legitimate claims there, and if so, wonderful. But a big military alone is not going to do it. That's just muscle diplomacy. I hope there will be some legal brains behind Harper too. That's all I meant in my previous posts.

 

[missile]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

At least,Harper has shown us that he will not be bending over backwards to please the Americans..something many people thought he would be doing. He actually sounded very Prime Ministerlike standing up against the US ambassador.

 

[the caracal kid]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

from today's globe:

Who is right on Arctic sovereignty?By BILL CURRY

Friday, January 27, 2006 Page A4

OTTAWA -- The issue: Prime-minister-designate Stephen Harper and U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins are at odds over whether Canada has sovereignty over the waters between the Arctic islands.

The facts: The dispute between Canada and foreign countries, particularly the United States, over Arctic sovereignty has gone on for decades.

Canada says the waters have long been used by the country's Inuit, who gave their support to Canada's sovereignty claims in the 1993 Nunavut Land Claims Agreement.

The United States and others insist that while the islands belong to Canada, they are surrounded by international waters.

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The shrinking polar ice cap, as well as the fact that the Arctic ice is thinner than it once was, has opened up the prospect of the Northwest Passage becoming a major shipping route between Asia and Europe.

Such a route through the Arctic islands would be 7,000 kilometres shorter than the current passage through the Panama Canal.

University of British Columbia professor Michael Byers, who, along with University of Montreal professor Suzanne Lalonde, directs a project on Arctic sovereignty and the Northwest Passage, called Mr. Harper's rebuke to Mr. Wilkins -- over U.S. failure to recognize Canada's Arctic sovereignty --"remarkable."

Mr. Byers had been recommending that Canada install an icebreaker on each side of the northern coast well before Mr. Harper's recent campaign promise to buy icebreakers. He said Mr. Harper's plan would go a long way toward boosting Canada's sovereignty claim.

The professor said that there has yet to be a concrete international agreement dealing with the status of the waters.

"The honest answer is, it's a dispute," he said. "With sovereignty, you either use it or you lose it."

Mr. Byers noted that a Russian-flagged icebreaking cruise ship, the Kapitan Khlebnikovi, is already sailing the Northwest Passage. It charges passengers about $10,000 (U.S.) for the northern journey and visits Inuit communities during the summer.

The real threat, according to Mr. Myers, is that shipping vessels will start using the passage in violation of Canadian environmental laws if Canada is unable to patrol the region. The two Arctic experts also recommend the imposition of mandatory registration for ships entering Arctic waters, a system already used off of Canada's Atlantic coast. And they call for radar to be installed at the entrances to the Northwest Passage.

The Liberal government increased its surveillance of the Arctic, through electronic methods and northern military exercises.

Speaking in late 2004, former U.S. ambassador Paul Cellucci hinted the United States may be willing to recognize Canada's claims to the Northwest Passage if it helps U.S. security.

"We are looking at everything through the terrorism prism," he said. "Our top priority is to stop the terrorists. So perhaps when this is brought to the table again, we may have to take another look."

Mr. Byers said he viewed the comments as an invitation from the U.S. State Department to renegotiate the issue.

"I think [Mr. Harper's] position actually lines up with the long-term interests of the United States," he said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20060127/REALITY27/TPNational

 

[Curiosity]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Since yesterday....

I have been trying to find out what "international waters boundaries" are and what would constitute Canadian domain....

I found a post on another site giving some information from a Navy man...the topic was the same as it is here...the patrol of the coastal waters by Canada...

Well the de-facto recognized national waters boundary is 200 miles
You may be thinking of claimed Economic Zone.
Territorial waters extend 12 nm. [edit: nautical miles]

Thanks to NavVet for this description of "innocent passage"...


There are probably parts of the passage that Canada can claim sovreignty over, however, there is still the principal known as "innocent passage" If necessary to pass between two bodies of international waters, a foreign nation's shipping, including warships can transit as long as they are just transiting. They can't stop and do manuvers, exercises etc. It is like an international easment. If a foreign ship is doing more than "innocent passage" the nation with the territorial claim can order them to leave or take action if they don't. However, one of the fundamental principals of innocent passage is that you don't have to get permission as long as you comply with the law.

Here is a map of the Northwest Passage...http://www.athropolis.com/map9.htm

Even so, I believe the agreement (which exists) is to inform as to exploration and exercises by military.... by any country.... even though this seems to be another Canadian/U.S. item for controversy.....thanks to the U.S. Ambassador who should pry his foot out of his large mouth. No doubt that foot is keeping him from making a statement and apology to the Canadian people!

 

[DasFX]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

I was afraid that Harper would become a Bush puppet, but was pleasantly surprised by this comments against the US yesterday. I just hope he follows through and puts a bigger miliary presence up there and will show force when necessary.

The arrogance of the US to claim that it is international waters? Does this mean the waters around the north coast of Alaska is international? What about inbetwen the Aleutian Islands? Even better, what about the waters inbetween the Florida Keys?

Americans wonder why many Canadians have anti-American views, well this is why!

 

[Jay]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

It's a dirty trick by Canadians to lure American eyes to the Artic, when they make a move were going to sack Washington again....

 

[#juan]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

In the years BC, (Before Cellucci)

I rarely even knew the name of the U.S. embassador. We never heard from them. Cellucci changed all that. It seems the American president has taken to figuratively sticking his toe in the water through his embassador. The embassador says something provocative and we Canadians tend to respond like the proverbial Pavlovian pooch by salivating, barking, snapping,or howling, Is this the new diplomacy?

 

[Curiosity]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Hardly Juan

I believe diplomacy is still being conducted, however how things appear in your biased media one cannot challenge before the bell has rung. No doubt your frantically biased reaction blurs your perception at any rate.

Apparently the word on the street is David H. Wilkins - the U.S. Ambassador to Canada was a throw-away because there was little possibility of U.S. diplomacy with Canadian liberals. He will probably be recalled now that Harper is in business.

Harper needs to get to work on a military so his argument for Canadian sovreignty holds "water" meanwhile the words of defense are straw....and even Denmark has its eye again on the
northern countries above Canada, as well as the Chinese coveting your natural resources.

Don't focus continually on the U.S. or you would be playing right down the road the real antagonists against Canada may be planning.

 

[#juan]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

That post,

was written as hyperbole. I guess I should have put a sign on it.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

I've come upon an interesting take on the situation. This one's for all of you conspiracy guys, however in this day and age anything could be expected.

This is a classic scripted confrontation to make Harper look to Canadians like he's standing up to the US.

It's probably what he and Shrub were talking about on the phone.

Harper gets to justify buying military toys for the Navy, look like he's being tough, patrol the Arctic for the US so they don't have to, while granting them whatever access they want (but on OUR terms *wink,wink*).

It's perfect.

 

[#juan]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

I will be really suspicious

if we take delivery of icebreakers within three years. :wink:

 

[DasFX]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

What with the whole bolding of the first part of first sentence, did I miss something.

No matter what the reason, a stronger military in Canada will lead to a stronger Canada.

 

[zoofer]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Trudeau, Cretien and Paulie did not give two snots about the artic. They dismantled the military.
Now all the local Howard Deans are expecting Harper to fix everything overnight.

BUTT OUT

There will be some action now though the world has a case about the Northwest passage being an international passageway.

 

[pastafarian]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

I've come upon an interesting take on the situation. This one's for all of you conspiracy guys, however in this day and age anything could be expected.

Sounds like an astute take on the development. I agree completely, surprise, surprise :wink: .

Apparently these volleys from Harper were released at a press conference in response to a question that wasn't asked. In any case, Karl Rove could come up with a scenario like that with half his brain tied behind his back. Bush himself wouldn't have to stretch too far to think of it, given his campaign experience, so I don't think it's all that unlikely.

Harper's previous anti-Canada rhetoric and his support for US-Canadian integration, makes this sudden desire for sovereignty suspect --one might even say, "anti-American", since we know that the US always has only the best of intentions, is our trusted friend and ally, yadda yadda...

I think leaders do this kind of thing for each other all the time.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

it paves the way for the government to do something CONservative rather than something CONstructive, that is for sure.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat