U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

[MikeyDB]

#juan

What's your take on the potential out-fall with respect to changes in Canadian social ethos driven by nasty things America doesn't like...

I'm thinking; NO to missile defense shield
NO to "safeguarding" heterosexual marriage
NO to inclusion of Canada's water resources under NAFTA chptr 19 and 11
etc.

Do you think it likely that there would ever be any connection made between the penalties Canada pays for not embracing the "Amurican" vision?

 

[MikeyDB]

Toro

The US has managed to usurp the Geneva conventions so Carlyle et al can profit from invading the "evil-doers", kidnap "illegal combatants" a euphemism for those fighting the invaders army...the more common but PC incorrect name of prisoners of war...
set up kangaroo courts usurping habeus corpus and making a sham of Bush's "a nation of laws" rehetoric
the list of American interference in Canda and other nations is long and old...

So no I wouldn't want the American version of "justice" as practiced in its judicial system having anything to do with influencing international trade.

Good point!

 

[#juan]

MikeyDB

First, my thoughts on these three items:

The missile defence shield, at the moment, is beyond any known technology and is a waste of time and money.

Safeguarding heterosexual marriage is, above all else, a losing battle. The "Christian right", the American version of the Taliban, are pushing for this nonsense and will likely not succeed.

Including water resources under NAFTA chptr 19 and 11 would be effective suicide because water will become as valuable as oil in the not too distant future.

With the election of Harper, Canada will go along, at least in part, with the missile defence shield. I only hope we don't spend a lot of money on the damned thing.

I think Harper knows that same sex marriage is in in Canada but if we get any flak from Bush, he can always point to the free vote and shrug, which I think is the reason for the free vote in the first place.

Water isn't a big deal right now, but it surely will be in the future. We have to really watch our step here because everyone will be in the market for our water.

 

[Just the Facts]

Softwood lumber is a prime example of the selective enforcement of NAFTA rules.

Give us another....nevermind I'll do it for you. Canada refused to comply with beer regulations. 8O Shocking isn't it?

I believe beer was deemed exempt as a religious issue. :cheers: :canada:

 

[MikeyDB]

Missile defense and ammonium nitrate.


As long as the Timothy McVeighs of America and the Islamic version of Better Homes and Gardens don’t get their hands on large quantities of fertilizer, I think we can be fairly sure these types haven’t a hope of leasing some SCUDS or the American counterpoint to them….Patriot missile batteries…

Although there’s a good deal of historical evidence available that indicates that America will sell anything to anyone when the price is right

Before anyone gets their bowels in a knot…. yes I’m familiar with Canadian sales of DU to America and yes we’ve had weapons dealers flogging toys to undesirables as well.

Wonder what the NAFTA ruling would be on Carlyle selling (or giving in the case of Israel) arms to North Korea??? (Tongue firmly in cheek since everyone knows that Americans selling arms technology to America’s “enemies” is illegal…)

Unless there’s another Ollie North or Ronny Raygun waiting in the wings of course….

 

[Toro]

I believe beer was deemed exempt as a religious issue. :cheers: :canada:

Now that's something I can relate to!

 

[MikeyDB]

Why is it I wonder that one never reads a post from an American that says....

"A nation of laws" doesn't apply to America, we'll make the rules and break the rules whenever we like and as long as we have the economic and military advantage over some nation we'll do whatever we want and the world and the UN can kiss...."

Americans just don't seem to understand that this is exactly the message the world hears from America through observing America's behavior and reviewing its history.

Canada knows from NAFTA that American business is dishonest and prepared to lie cheat and steal...

Enron and WorldCom were business as usual for America.

The scary thing is of course that Americans keep on demonstrating they're prepared to behave with barbarism on a par with any of its enemies and they believe this justifiable "because we are America"...

 

[#juan]

Well MikeyDB

They've just told us that half of the one billion of our money that they are keeping, is going to be given to their own lumber industry. What these crooks are saying, is that "NAFTA rules notwithstanding, even though we signed them, we will do what we damn well please". "We will not only collect illegal tariffs, we will subsidise our own lumber industry".

 

[MikeyDB]

And of course Harper 'The Pathetic' will slink away back under the rock where he came from. Take George Bush, mix in a little Brian Mulroney add a dash of Pee Wee Herman and a sprinkle of Curly Larry and Moe and you've got Stephen Harper.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

Why is it I wonder that one never reads a post from an American that says....

"A nation of laws" doesn't apply to America, we'll make the rules and break the rules whenever we like and as long as we have the economic and military advantage over some nation we'll do whatever we want and the world and the UN can kiss...."

Americans just don't seem to understand that this is exactly the message the world hears from America through observing America's behavior and reviewing its history.

Canada knows from NAFTA that American business is dishonest and prepared to lie cheat and steal...

Enron and WorldCom were business as usual for America.

The scary thing is of course that Americans keep on demonstrating they're prepared to behave with barbarism on a par with any of its enemies and they believe this justifiable "because we are America"...

First of all, you are blindered. Of course America will act in its own best interests, so does every other nation on earth. Just because the last government of Canada loved to mouth self-righteous platitiudes about "Canadian values" and things like "the responsibility to protect", to say nothing of the "horrors of global warming" doesn't mean they actually DID something about any of those issues. I'm amazed by the number of people fooled by the facade erected by our leaders, they buy into it all so whole-heartedly, as long as it massages their inferiority com[plex by making then feel superior to the USA.

(And Juan, as an aside, everything you say about the technology for missle defense could have been said about flight in 1900.

Yes, the United States has not behaved fairly when it comes to NAFTA. But NAFTA has also made us very rich. I'm as pissed as anyone over softwood lumber, but I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Decapitating our trade advantages with the world greatest consumers over one issue would be NUTS! Take the best deal you can get.

As for Enron et al, Did you not realize the CIBC was in the scandal up to its gilded arse? They paid what, 1 1/2 BILLION dollars in penalties to avoid prosecution. Now, last time I looked CIBC stood for CANADIAN Imperial Bank of Commerce. Still feel superior?

BTW, I suspect if those acts of perfidy performed by Enron and Wiorldcom had happened in CANADA, they'd been even MORE seen as business as usual.

Oh yeah. Saddam Hussein murdered an average of 136 people a DAY in Iraq and in his wars with his neighbours. I think the USA has a LONG way to go to meet that particular requirement.

The United States is STILL a force for good in the world.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

Why is it I wonder that one never reads a post from an American that says....

"A nation of laws" doesn't apply to America, we'll make the rules and break the rules whenever we like and as long as we have the economic and military advantage over some nation we'll do whatever we want and the world and the UN can kiss...."

Americans just don't seem to understand that this is exactly the message the world hears from America through observing America's behavior and reviewing its history.

Canada knows from NAFTA that American business is dishonest and prepared to lie cheat and steal...

Enron and WorldCom were business as usual for America.

The scary thing is of course that Americans keep on demonstrating they're prepared to behave with barbarism on a par with any of its enemies and they believe this justifiable "because we are America"...

This is silly.

 

[Toro]

<cough>Bre-X<cough>

 

[MikeyDB]

Look it up Toro

The largest corruption scams ever are found in what country......?

Care to take a guess?

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

Why is it I wonder that one never reads a post from an American that says....

"A nation of laws" doesn't apply to America, we'll make the rules and break the rules whenever we like and as long as we have the economic and military advantage over some nation we'll do whatever we want and the world and the UN can kiss...."

Americans just don't seem to understand that this is exactly the message the world hears from America through observing America's behavior and reviewing its history.

Canada knows from NAFTA that American business is dishonest and prepared to lie cheat and steal...

Enron and WorldCom were business as usual for America.

The scary thing is of course that Americans keep on demonstrating they're prepared to behave with barbarism on a par with any of its enemies and they believe this justifiable "because we are America"...

This is silly.

Didn't I just say that?

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

Look it up Toro

The largest corruption scams ever are found in what country......?

Care to take a guess?

No kidding! 8O 8O

Being 30% of the world's economy and having the largest capital markets and with more than half the world's largest corporations, d'ya think that's probable?

To use scandals in the US as an example of it "not being a nation of laws" while ignoring the same types of scandals in Canada merely demonstrates the Pavlovian anti-Americanism of those occupying The Un-serious Left in Canada

I'll use your logic: Surrey is the car theft capital of North America. Therefore Canada is the biggest thieving nation in the world!

 

[MikeyDB]

Scandal part and parcel of freedom and democracy in America


Enron….WorldCom….nothing compared to the scam that America is perpetrating on the world.

http://montages.blogspot.com/2005/03/iraq-reconstruction-biggest-corruption.html

Of course, Iraq is just one of a long list of international scams that American’s don’t seem to terribly interested in acknowledging never mind admitting…

This is Canada’s biggest trading partner!

I’ve often said I wouldn’t leave a Canadian politician alone in my house because I know and we all know that they’re not to be trusted.

Brian Mulroney and the “big wheels” like Paul Martin and Maurice Strong have learned their lessons well at the knee of American champions of business….

 

[#juan]

(And Juan, as an aside, everything you say about the technology for missle defense could have been said about flight in 1900.

Yes, the United States has not behaved fairly when it comes to NAFTA. But NAFTA has also made us very rich. I'm as pissed as anyone over softwood lumber, but I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Decapitating our trade advantages with the world greatest consumers over one issue would be NUTS! Take the best deal you can get.

Horse feathers

Given the right materials Leanardo Da Vinci probably would have built a working airplane. The Materials and the technology were coming together all over the world and flight was achieved, for all intents and purposes, by a half dozen people at about the same time. The top scientists and engineers from all over, including the U.S., have stated catagorically that hitting one 17,000 mph missile with another 17,000 mph missile is just not feasible within the forseeable future. It would be better for the whole world if the U.S. just stopped pissing people off.



NAFTA has not made us "very rich". Every resource based economy has experienced the same boom as Canada. The U.S. buys our products because they need them. They don't buy from us because they are "good guys". If they could save a nickel somewhere else, that is where they would buy. As I said earlier, special relationships between countries would be nice but mostly, they are pipe dreams.

 

[MikeyDB]

Toro

Like most Americans you think bigger is better!

An enormous economy riddled with corruption doesn't make you better Toro...it just clarifies how much everyone else should trust in America...

It's "business" and its "government" are simply showing what America is really all about.

And it ain't "Truth and Justice" although it is the "American Way".

You people have the hubris to preach to the world about "democracy" and "freedom" and think the world doesn't know you for what you are.

Abu Ghraib may have startled some, but anyone whose watched America for any length of time undestands exactly the nature and character of the "American Dream".

 

[MikeyDB]

Let’s suppose the technology to hit a bullet with a bullet is actually made workable…

If I launch two hundred (pick a number) missiles of which 2 were actually nukes, how might anyone know which two they were?

Let’s suppose I build a suitcase atom bomb and mail it to my pal in California…. How effective do you think your missile defense system would be in interdicting that little scenario?

If you want an effective missile shield, begin by ameliorating the causes that contribute to hatred in the world. This is a process that America doesn’t want to even consider since of course there’s more money for defense industry contractors building weapons.

And if anything can be said to be true about America it’s that when money talks America listens.

 

[Toro]

Mikey

There are so many tangents there, I'm going to have to go review my advanced calculus just to follow what you're saying!