U.N. panel slams Canada for treatment of aboriginals

snfu73

disturber of the peace
Would it? I don't know if self government has resulted in a lot of improvement. I almost think they should just take the money that goes to Indian Affairs and simply give it directly to each Aboriginal person. Individuals could use it for education, to start businesses, etc. without any possibility of it being hijacked by corrupt beaurocrats.
Well....native self government isn't really a reality at the moment, so, I don't know. I mean there is not higher level for a band to account to, really. Indian affairs I believe watches over things...but, each band is pretty much a world unto itself. It needs a cohesion (sp?)...under a premier and the ministries under a premier. Right now, there is the assembly of first nations...but it doesn't have the power. So, ya, I think native self goverrnment is the best way to go. It isn't there yet. And there is no doubt, in some bands there is alot of corruption. In others, things are run very well. Under a premier like figure, hopefully things can be cleaned up for the betterment of all aboriginals...if not all Canadians.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
72
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
I do think social services are important...they are important to my life. If I didn't have access to good health care...I'd be screwed...I wouldn't be at work at all. If I didn't have access to clean water...I'd be screwed...my body is 90 percent water. If I didn't have good roads to go to work on, well, i probably wouldn't make it to work. If I didn't have start up money to get a business going, I probably wouldn't start a business...not that I have started a business. If I didn't have a decent school to go to where I felt understood and not bullied for being who I am, I probably wouldn't learn a whole lot and wouldn't make it far in life. I mean, these are social services. Without them, things WON'T progress.
You are implying that aboriginals in Canada don't have access to those things? Nuts. Take a tour through a couple Okanagan reservations sometime. There are businesses, clinics, schools, nice houses, etc.
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
You are implying that aboriginals in Canada don't have access to those things? Nuts. Take a tour through a couple Okanagan reservations sometime. There are businesses, clinics, schools, nice houses, etc.
That's GOOD. But that's not all reserves. Go to a Northwestern Ontario reserve...in the middle of nowhere...where there are not these resources, and the resources they HAVE are being torn down in a hurry by forestry companies. Not all reserves DO have these services...in fact many don't. The town of geraldton, which services many reserves, only had one doctor...she left...the result...no health care. What do these folks do with no health care?? There was a big problem in NWO with schooling because for many kids on reserves, to go to highschool, they had to leave home and go to Thunder Bay and board to go to highschool....and too often aboriginal kids would end up dropping out because that was stressful for some....I mean, at 14, to leave home, to go into a larger city, to be in a culture that isn't yours, to face racism (Thunder Bay was terribly racist), to go to a school where you are in the minority and people just don't get you. It didn't work half the time. So, not all reserves have it so good. It's like comparing some tiny town in Saskatchewan to Toronto.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
72
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
So obviously providing social services isn't enough. The folks in the Okanagan decided it was time they took advantage of what Canada was giving them in the first place and did something with it. They helped themselves. It worked there it can work in other places in Cnada.
BTW, I would take small town SK over Tranna, anytime.
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
So obviously providing social services isn't enough. The folks in the Okanagan decided it was time they took advantage of what Canada was giving them in the first place and did something with it. They helped themselves. It worked there it can work in other places in Cnada.
BTW, I would take small town SK over Tranna, anytime.
Well, this is what is going on in Grassy Narrows, like one the articles I posted earlier states. The problem is not what Canada is giving...the problem is with what Canada is taking away. In northwestern ontario, part of what helped so many reserves survive is the ability to sustain themselves off of the land. Problem is, they don't have much of it of their own. So, they hunt, fish, get wood, etc from crown land...something that has been gauranteed in treaties. Well, then the government comes along and doesn't honour these treaties, and allows companies like Abitibi to come in and clearcut the area, thus destroying any of the resources that helped to provide any sense of self sustainability to this area. So, now, they are fighting to try and stop clearcutting and create a situation where they can survive.

I wonder what you are implying? That native peoples are lazy, they live off of the system, they are nothing but mooches? Some of the hardest working folks I know are native. I used to work with this cameraman...he was amazing....he worked long hours...he was dedicated. My dad works in NWO and meets with alot of native groups, and loves it. He has met great people...proud people...hard working people.

This isn't a black and white deal. There are many sides to the coin. I look at what is happening in Caledonia and see so many white people pissed off...but I side with the natives. All of sudden, while a land claim is going on, a land claim that will help shape their future, the government goes and sells the land! That was low...very low. There should be a moritoriam on any activity for both parties on disputed lands. Land claims MUST be processed faster to allow people to get on with their lives quicker. Self government must become a reality. Education, health care, clean water (something like 180 reserves don't even have clean water) THESE are needed in order for advancement. But, if a reserve does not have the resources to obtain these things...what the heck do they do? They are stuck in an endless cycle. And self government will HOPEFULLY help in proper distribution of funds to areas where help is needed the most. I think many complain that Indian Affairs is out of touch...it's a bunch of white guys in ottawa who don't really get what is happening on reserves...and unfortunatly, money gets funneled into unproductive areas. Of course, as mentioned before, there are some reserves where their is corruption within the band office, and this needs to be addressed...it HAS to be addressed, and again, I think the best way to address this is through self governance...government bodies above the band office keeping closer track of what is going on and where money is going...but are still in native hands.

There are some very successful reserves...there are many that aren't. Alot of the time it comes down to location, location, location. The Fort William Reserve just on the edge of Thunder Bay, is relatively successful. But that's because of it's location, and the access to resources and social services that are needed. Other reserves aren't so lucky...they are distance from resources and services and that causes some issues.

Overall, it is a complicated subject. It's not black and white. Many things need to be done, new directions taken, chances taken, new relationships forged, etc.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
53
Das Kapital
You have misread my intent Said - but of course I can never write clearly enough for you eh? I believe the last time you addressed me was to tell me to "DIE"....


Exucse me? I most certainly did NOT tell YOU, or anyone on any board to DIE. I will admit to confusing you with another poster from another board in a thread here where I DID address you with some 'tude, but I NEVER told you die or drop dead etc. And quite frankly, I'm too angry at YOUR false accusation to continue addressing you further.
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
[/b]Exucse me? I most certainly did NOT tell YOU, or anyone on any board to DIE. I will admit to confusing you with another poster from another board in a thread here where I DID address you with some 'tude, but I NEVER told you die or drop dead etc. And quite frankly, I'm too angry at YOUR false accusation to continue addressing you further.
<snip>
 
Last edited by a moderator:

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
1,230
21
38
not in Kansas anymore
Does anyone out there even know what native self-government means? It gives the band the same gov't money,if not more,but with no strings attached. The band spends it as they seem fit without audit controls. This will not improve the life of the average reserve dweller,but should improve the councils morale and lifestyle. The only way the natives are going to improve thier life is to put thier culture and tradition on the back-burner and educate thier children to the ways of modern society. It is possible to respect your past and live in the present,but you can not live in the past.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
72
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Well, this is what is going on in Grassy Narrows, like one the articles I posted earlier states. The problem is not what Canada is giving...the problem is with what Canada is taking away. In northwestern ontario, part of what helped so many reserves survive is the ability to sustain themselves off of the land. Problem is, they don't have much of it of their own. So, they hunt, fish, get wood, etc from crown land...something that has been gauranteed in treaties. Well, then the government comes along and doesn't honour these treaties, and allows companies like Abitibi to come in and clearcut the area, thus destroying any of the resources that helped to provide any sense of self sustainability to this area. So, now, they are fighting to try and stop clearcutting and create a situation where they can survive.
That's unfortunate and what I would suggest is that the aboriginals should look into lawsuits. Gov'ts don't like lawsuits.

I wonder what you are implying? That native peoples are lazy, they live off of the system, they are nothing but mooches? Some of the hardest working folks I know are native. I used to work with this cameraman...he was amazing....he worked long hours...he was dedicated. My dad works in NWO and meets with alot of native groups, and loves it. He has met great people...proud people...hard working people.
I wasn't implying anything. I was stating outright that the Okanagan bands decided to get themselves organized and instead of working off the reserves develop their own stuff.

This isn't a black and white deal. There are many sides to the coin. I look at what is happening in Caledonia and see so many white people pissed off...but I side with the natives. All of sudden, while a land claim is going on, a land claim that will help shape their future, the government goes and sells the land! That was low...very low. There should be a moritoriam on any activity for both parties on disputed lands. Land claims MUST be processed faster to allow people to get on with their lives quicker. Self government must become a reality. Education, health care, clean water (something like 180 reserves don't even have clean water) THESE are needed in order for advancement. But, if a reserve does not have the resources to obtain these things...what the heck do they do? They are stuck in an endless cycle. And self government will HOPEFULLY help in proper distribution of funds to areas where help is needed the most. I think many complain that Indian Affairs is out of touch...it's a bunch of white guys in ottawa who don't really get what is happening on reserves...and unfortunatly, money gets funneled into unproductive areas. Of course, as mentioned before, there are some reserves where their is corruption within the band office, and this needs to be addressed...it HAS to be addressed, and again, I think the best way to address this is through self governance...government bodies above the band office keeping closer track of what is going on and where money is going...but are still in native hands.
Dastardly deeds deserve to have a couple lawsuits thrown into the fray.

There are some very successful reserves...there are many that aren't. Alot of the time it comes down to location, location, location. The Fort William Reserve just on the edge of Thunder Bay, is relatively successful. But that's because of it's location, and the access to resources and social services that are needed. Other reserves aren't so lucky...they are distance from resources and services and that causes some issues.
CDN Bear posted a thing About Chief Louie from Osoyoos. They have a thriving thing going. Do you know where Osoyoos is? It's in the south Okanagan. The Okanagan in general is semi arid. Around Oliver and Osoyoos where the reserve is located, it is desert. LAst I heard deserts are pretty hostile places to develop. The Inuit have done their thing in one of the coldest deserts on the planet and did quite well for a lotta years.

Overall, it is a complicated subject. It's not black and white. Many things need to be done, new directions taken, chances taken, new relationships forged, etc.
Yup. But sitting back waiting for the gov't to throw more money at the problem won't work.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
WC most certainly is a true woman, the issues she has with people are, reading way to far into her posts, hypocracy, bigots, asshats, and so on.

It's odd that I have taken great big Bear swings at things WC holds dear, yet we have maintained a friendship.

Perhaps it's in the apporoach.
Does anyone out there even know what native self-government means?
I do, I do!!!
It gives the band the same gov't money,if not more,but with no strings attached. The band spends it as they seem fit without audit controls.
The very reason I am against it.

This will not improve the life of the average reserve dweller,but should improve the councils morale and lifestyle.
Not that their lifestyle is hurting at the moment either.

The only way the natives are going to improve thier life is to put thier culture and tradition on the back-burner and educate thier children to the ways of modern society.
Eek, that sounds to close to residential schools for me Wally. But I will agree that education must become a priority and fast.

It is possible to respect your past and live in the present,but you can not live in the past.
Absolutely!!!

I wasn't implying anything. I was stating outright that the Okanagan bands decided to get themselves organized and instead of working off the reserves develop their own stuff.
If you weren't implying it, I will...

Far to many First Nations and Metis have found that their status is great for getting access to things such as harvesting cards, free money, lucrative contracts with family, etc., but refuse to see the future of their actions. Then there are many that sit and wallow in self pity and a racist loathing of all things Non Native. Now that is not to say that some of that was formulated by external forces, but to allow the actions of others to dictate you existance, is absolutely ridiculous.

Stand and Deliver, get up, move forword, grow, get with the program. Stop the cycle and become a mechanism for positivity and not negativity.

CDN Bear posted a thing About Chief Louie from Osoyoos. They have a thriving thing going.
And why is his res thriving? Because he refuses to accept the status quo! He refuses to be the stereotype, he refuses to let external forces dictate who he is and by extention, who his people are.

Yup. But sitting back waiting for the gov't to throw more money at the problem won't work.
Couldn't agree more.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Bear

I'm ok with being called a fool, or stupid or whatever people deem me to be.....as long as they change my mind, teach me something new, or show me a better way....

Until that happens, I'll stand my ground and keep my own opinions ... as I expect all of us will do.
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
3,197
22
38
Oshawa ON
When will the endless debate on aboriginals cease? I think all the key points have already been made. Native communities must become more cohesive, its leaders more responsible, its membership more focused. There is money coming in like nobody's business but as long as First Nations are reliant on a checkerboard of parasitical professionals, special interest supervisaries-cum-consultants and human resource personnel ad nauseum the great sucking sound will only intensify. It's time for native leadership. Lead and the rest will follow.