TWU law school snub

[FiveParadox]

Wrong, it is clear that ANY sexually active person is "disadvantaged". Their sexual preference is moot.

Semantics, again.

While any sexual active persons are clearly disadvantaged, the LGBTQ* community is disproportionately disadvantaged. The covenant -- which is not only a religious statement, but a prerequisite for admission and continued attendance at an institution authorized by the B.C. Legislative Assembly to issue academic degrees -- discriminates against same-sex married couples.

Trinity Western University has two degree-issuing functions as a post-secondary institution. It is authorized to issue theological degrees, and it has separate authorization to issue non-religious academic degrees. If this "covenant" were applied to students enrolled in programs leading to theological degrees, that would be a different conversation. If the institution is going to purport to issue non-religious academic degrees, however, such as degrees to practice law, then the "covenant" should not be a requirement.

 

[BornRuff]

No, they effect everyone that attends. Tell me how they effect some and not others.,

Well, it doesn't affect people who are celibate or married, but it does affect people who are sexually active or gay.

Does that make sense?

It is like if I made a rule that no black people were allowed. I apply this rule to everyone attends. No matter what race you are, everyone is subject to this same rule, but it is only black people who are negatively affected by it.

Ahhhhhhh.... so the law society's personal beliefs trump the Christian Schools beliefs. Is that right?

That is the tricky question, isn't it. You have been going on under the assumption that the beliefs of the school automatically trump the beliefs of the people in the law society? Why it that so? Why is it ok for one group to impose their beliefs on people who want to join, but it is unfathomable for another group to do the exact same thing?

 

[petros]

Dear god. You are not even close to making sense. If you want me to respond, can you try to explain your point differently?

Why can't a married person with a degree from TWU? Their preferences and sexual activity are moot and they are being discriminated for where they went to school regardless of their qualifications. WTF is so hard to understand? Those actions are Charter violations.

 

[BornRuff]

I guess the americans are more tolerant than Canada.

Jonathan Kay: Maybe TWU’s critics should take a look at U.S. Christian law schools | National Post

If you read that article, what it actually says is that even the most conservative faith based school in the US doesn't have any explicit rules against homosexuality, and was open an accepting of a gay student.

What it makes me wonder is why this school has to have rules against being gay and policies that allow them to deny enrollment or expel people who are gay. Why do they need these when US schools get along just fine without them?

Why can't a married person with a degree from TWU?

Why can't they what?

Their preferences and sexual activity are moot and they are being discriminated for where they went to school regardless of their qualifications.

Why are you talking about this in the past tense (went to school) when this school doesn't even open for another 2 years? People going into the program will be fully aware of where their degree will and wont allow them to be called to the bar.

It has always been the case that you have to go to an accredited law school if you want to be a lawyer. It is up to them if they want to go to a non accredited law school.

WTF is so hard to understand? Those actions are Charter violations.

Well, the incomplete sentences would be a good place to start.

And yes, I agree with you, denying someone access to an institution based on their sexual preference would be a charter violation.

 

[petros]

What is the reason they'll be refused BumFluff? Quality of education that doesn't meet requirements or something in their personal life that has nothing to do with the ON Bar or anybody else for that matter?

Who is this contract between the student and faculty or the student with God?

 

[FiveParadox]

"Refrain from practices which are contrary to biblical teachings. These include, but are not limited to...homosexual behaviour." - Application of the Responsibilities of Membership to Students, Trinity Western University

The potential application of this statement of responsibility is unreasonably broad. It could include students working together in a queer students' club or alliance; it could prohibit same-sex partners from holding hands on university grounds; it could prohibit same-sex partners attending university events or dances together as a couple. Some would argue that being homosexual is, in and of itself, behaviour. The fact is that the policy is unreasonably broad when applied to a Canadian post-secondary institution that seeks to step from theological teachings to non-religious academic teachings. This would set a precedent in Canada that should be avoided.

 

[damngrumpy]

Sometimes children are somewhat forced into taking an anti gay position.
I have heard born again parents say "In this house we believe" and from
there the pressure starts. The statement is likely not always correct anyway.
I know people who have kids the parents dogmatically believe certain things
the children are silent and unfortunately the parents cut off an avenue of
discussion because children are not free to speak their mind. I was always
free to speak my mind growing up and I didn't always agree with my parents.
Parents sometimes demand belief and it does not work. There are all kinds of
young people who sign these silly pledge things and ignore the document they
didn't have attachment to in the first place.
I also know of children who couldn't wait to get to hell out of some of these homes
and be on their own. The real surprise comes for parents (I know two sets of parents)
who don't understand why their kids won't go home or have anything to do with them.
Its sad but it does happen.
On the other hand protocols and people on the other side force their beliefs on these
young people as well.

 

[BornRuff]

What is the reason they'll be refused BumFluff? Quality of education that doesn't meet requirements or something in their personal life that has nothing to do with the ON Bar or anybody else for that matter?

Who is this contract between the student and faculty or the student with God?

Again, the only people intruding in anyone's personal life are the people who run the school.

The decision of the law society has nothing to do with anyone's personal life. It has to do what this school forces students to do in order to gain access to their law program.

Moral and ethical considerations are pretty much the core of what the law society deals with.

 

[petros]

Explain how the school is but ON putzes aren't.

They go that school by choice which is Christian, the contract isn't binding which is their personal choice. They weren't forced to go there or sign a symbolic contract.

 

[BornRuff]

A major problem here seems to be that some people are acting like students are being adversely affected by this.

That is impossible since there are no students. The school doesn't open for 2 years, at which time everyone will be well aware of what that degree will allow you to do, and they can make choices accordingly.

What this decision targets is the law school. Obviously the law school will be less attractive if it allows you to be called to the bar in fewer places than other law schools.

 

[petros]

WTU has been running for few decades, the contract is symbolic and after meeting set national standards and getting a degree they are no longer affiliated with the school.

It's descriminating.

 

[BornRuff]

Explain how the school is but ON putzes aren't.

Seriously, does anyone else understand what this guy is saying?

They go that school by choice which is Christian, the contract isn't binding which is their personal choice. They weren't forced to go there or sign a symbolic contract.

It isn't symbolic, they can face disciplinary action for violating the covenant.

The problem isn't that the school is christian, it is the things that they force students to do in order to attend.

 

[gerryh]

"Refrain from practices which are contrary to biblical teachings. These include, but are not limited to...homosexual behaviour." - Application of the Responsibilities of Membership to Students, Trinity Western University

The potential application of this statement of responsibility is unreasonably broad. It could include students working together in a queer students' club or alliance; it could prohibit same-sex partners from holding hands on university grounds; it could prohibit same-sex partners attending university events or dances together as a couple. Some would argue that being homosexual is, in and of itself, behaviour. The fact is that the policy is unreasonably broad when applied to a Canadian post-secondary institution that seeks to step from theological teachings to non-religious academic teachings. This would set a precedent in Canada that should be avoided.

This school has been in existence since 1962 and has been handing out non theologian degrees for as long. Now, people are pushing their agenda down the schools throat. Considering how long this school has been operating and the fact that everyone in Langley knows and has known what this private schools policies are I have a problem with the push back now. If a student isn't willing to abide by the schools rules, they don't have to go to that school. There are plenty of non faith based university's available.

and that's the other thing. Students are not being "forced" to sign anything. Students go to TWU BECAUSE they are a faith based school.

 

[PoliticalNick]

This is an obvious win for TWU. They can place anything they like in their code of conduct that doesn't discriminate against anyone. Requiring a student to agree to adhere to this code is no different than any other school requiring students to adhere to whatever code of conduct they may have. This part of the agreement is not hidden or discriminatory in any way. The students are aware of it and agree to it freely or are free to find another school more to their liking. As much as I despise organized religions as a whole this school has done nothing wrong and the students will meet the academic requirements to pass the bar upon graduation so should rightfully be allowed to practice anywhere. The law society is going against the constitutional rights of the students and I hope, especially considering they are a LAW society, they will be severely punished.

 

[BornRuff]

This school has been in existence since 1962 and has been handing out non theologian degrees for as long. Now, people are pushing their agenda down the schools throat. Considering how long this school has been operating and the fact that everyone in Langley knows and has known what this private schools policies are I have a problem with the push back now. If a student isn't willing to abide by the schools rules, they don't have to go to that school. There are plenty of non faith based university's available.

and that's the other thing. Students are not being "forced" to sign anything. Students go to TWU BECAUSE they are a faith based school.

This is factually incorrect. This is not the first time this has become an issue.

They went through the same thing with their faculty of education back in the 90's.

It is not like people are attacking them now out of nowhere. This is an issue now because they are applying for accreditation from law societies.

If they want to stick to themselves and do what they do, few people will worry about them. It is when they try to associate themselves with other groups that they get push back, and rightfully so.

 

[petros]

Seriously, does anyone else understand what this guy is saying?



It isn't symbolic, they can face disciplinary action for violating the covenant.

The problem isn't that the school is christian, it is the things that they force students to do in order to attend.

What does that have to do with their qualifications BumF-ck?

 

[BornRuff]

This is an obvious win for TWU. They can place anything they like in their code of conduct that doesn't discriminate against anyone. Requiring a student to agree to adhere to this code is no different than any other school requiring students to adhere to whatever code of conduct they may have. This part of the agreement is not hidden or discriminatory in any way. The students are aware of it and agree to it freely or are free to find another school more to their liking. As much as I despise organized religions as a whole this school has done nothing wrong and the students will meet the academic requirements to pass the bar upon graduation so should rightfully be allowed to practice anywhere. The law society is going against the constitutional rights of the students and I hope, especially considering they are a LAW society, they will be severely punished.

Would you feel the same way if they had a rule against being black?

You know, everyone who goes there will know that black people are not allowed before they go. If black people want to go to law school, they can go somewhere else.

If you don't think this is ok, how do you think it is different?

 

[gerryh]

This is factually incorrect. This is not the first time this has become an issue.

They went through the same thing with their faculty of education back in the 90's.

It is not like people are attacking them now out of nowhere. This is an issue now because they are applying for accreditation from law societies.

If they want to stick to themselves and do what they do, few people will worry about them. It is when they try to associate themselves with other groups that they get push back, and rightfully so.

and TWU and their students won at the SC level. What you, and paradox, and the Law society's are doing is forcing your own morality code on the students of TWU. It means that a Christian student that has chosen to attend TWU is limited in what degree they can earn because someone else has decided they are not allowed to earn that degree in a Christian based school. They are FORCED to attend a public University.

 

[BornRuff]

What does that have to do with their qualifications BumF-ck?

It has to do with the schools stability to be accredited. If you read anything about what the law society does, it is filled with references to ethics. If they don't think that the school is acting in an ethical way, that is a serious issue.

All we are talking about here is a disagreement between the law society and the school. There are no students to worry about, since there are no students.

 

[petros]

https://twu.ca/studenthandbook/university-policies/community-covenant-agreement.html