TWU law school snub

[BornRuff]

Hmm. . . hypothetical. If it was proved that between 1990-2010, the University of Whatever Skool of Law discriminated against blacks and FNs, would it be proper to go back and disbar any Ontario lawyer who graduated from UWSL?

I'd say no. And I don't see how this is any different. If the school is discriminating, then sue the school and force it to stop doing so. Punishing its graduates is holding them accountable for the actions of someone else they couldn't control. And, as I've demonstrated above, an action founded on a flawed principle.

This is not at all what is happening. The law school doesn't even open until 2016. When people do eventually enter the school, they will go in knowing full well where they will be permitted to be called to the bar if they go to that school.

If a person can argue the law and pass the bar that should be the qualification .
Religious affiliation has no bearing .
IMHO.

Well, no, this isn't Suits. Just knowing the law and passing the bar exam are not the only things required to be a lawyer, you also have to complete an accredited law program. The bar is not supposed to replace three years of proper legal education.

 

[gerryh]

This is not at all what is happening. The law school doesn't even open until 2016. When people do eventually enter the school, they will go in knowing full well where they will be permitted to be called to the bar if they go to that school.



Well, no, this isn't Suits. Just knowing the law and passing the bar exam are not the only things required to be a lawyer, you also have to complete an accredited law program. The bar is not supposed to replace three years of proper legal education.

and the different law society's are not saying no based on curriculum. They are saying no based on the institution and members Faith/Religion.

 

[BornRuff]

Remember, this is a private Christian University. The students going in know this and the vast majority of them are Christian themselves.

It seems like you are trying to impose your beliefs on the LSUC.

If this school is allowed to take personal beliefs into consideration when deciding who is fit for their law program, why can't the LSUC do the same when choosing which school to accredit?

It isn't like moral and ethical issues are a minor part of being a lawyer. It is at the core of everything they do.

and the different law society's are not saying no based on curriculum. They are saying no based on the institution and members Faith/Religion.

That is not correct. They are not doing anything to anyone because of what religion they subscribe to. They have taken issue with the policies put in place by the school.

Again, moral and ethical issues are of huge importance in the legal profession.

 

[gerryh]

It seems like you are trying to impose your beliefs on the LSUC.

If this school is allowed to take personal beliefs into consideration when deciding who is fit for their law program, why can't the LSUC do the same when choosing which school to accredit?

It isn't like moral and ethical issues are a minor part of being a lawyer. It is at the core of everything they do.

The school doesn't. Everyone wishing to attend TWU must sign the covenant. Regardless of what they are going there for. This includes teachers, faculty, administration, and support staff. This is a PRIVATE CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY.

 

[BornRuff]

The school doesn't. Everyone wishing to attend TWU must sign the covenant. Regardless of what they are going there for. This includes teachers, faculty, administration, and support staff. This is a PRIVATE CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY.

Lol, what? How does it make it any better or different if they also discriminate against people in other programs or employment?

Is your position that only Christians should be allowed to discriminate against people?

 

[petros]

No.

But if you are trained at an institution that teaches you, as a part of its academic or non-academic program, that you ought to discriminate against the LGBTQ* community, or any other groups, then you should not -- as a Roman Catholic post-secondary institution -- expect to be accredited to generate law graduates.

I went through Catholic school and I go to Church. Not once has anyone ever spoken out against anyone. None, zero, squat, nada, SFA.

Why?

 

[gerryh]

let methis straight. You and paradox seem to be of the opinion that if some one is "taught" that gay's shouldn't be married and the only REAL marriage was between a man and a woman then they shouldn't be allowed to practice law in Canada. Is that right?

 

[petros]

I was never taught that and I doubt you were either gerryh. Where do these people come up with this crap?

 

[BornRuff]

let methis straight. You and paradox seem to be of the opinion that if some one is "taught" that gay's shouldn't be married and the only REAL marriage was between a man and a woman then they shouldn't be allowed to practice law in Canada. Is that right?

Lol, can you show me exactly where anyone said anything close to this?

What you believe in your own head is your own business and nobody can do anything about it. When you transfer those beliefs into real world policies that discriminate against people, that is a different issue.

If you are so fond of tolerance, why are you supporting an institution that requires people to live strictly by their interpretation of what is right and wrong, upon punishment of expulsion? That doesn't sound very tolerant to me.

 

[gerryh]

I was never taught that and I doubt you were either gerryh. Where do these people come up with this crap?

The Catholic Church does not condone nor does it recognize SSM. As far as I know, it never has. The Catholic Church also does not condone pre marital sex and considers it a sin. This is also something that has not changed over the years. These are basic tenets of the Catholic Church that all Catholics are expected to support. It is no different than what TWU expects from it's students.

Now, all of that being said, do all Catholics support the above? No, even though they may have received at least 5 of the 7 sacraments. Just like not all members of TWU may live their lives to the letter of the covenant they have signed. The covenant is an expression of Faith, and that is all it is.

As an example, there are many teachers that have gone through TWU and now teach in non sectarian schools. They don't teach a slanted outlook on life just because they signed a "covenant" with the School they attended.

 

[petros]

If you are so fond of tolerance, why are you supporting an institution that requires people to live strictly by their interpretation of what is right and wrong, upon punishment of expulsion? That doesn't sound very tolerant to me.

They made the choice to live by what they believe and choose to do or not do in their PERSONAL life.

If my assoc told me what I can or can't do in my personal life, they'd be standing in front of judge before lunch and cutting me cheque shortly after lunch before turning in resignation letters.

 

[eh1eh]

and the different law society's are not saying no based on curriculum. They are saying no based on the institution and members Faith/Religion.

Actually they are saying no based on the discriminatory policies of the school. The discrimination is being put forth as part of the religious doctrines of the administration of the school.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

No.

But if you are trained at an institution that teaches you, as a part of its academic or non-academic program, that you ought to discriminate against the LGBTQ* community, or any other groups, then you should not -- as a Roman Catholic post-secondary institution -- expect to be accredited to generate law graduates.

When did you join the Gay Mafia?

Inclusion means everyone, including those you don't agree with. Shall we start targeting Muslims for attending Mosques [they're not particularly hip] to LGBTQ* community or maybe Jewish Lawyers. Man that ought to be a real treat disbarring all those Jewish lawyers.

 

[gerryh]

Lol, can you show me exactly where anyone said anything close to this?

Then why not allow the Law program at TWU?

If you are so fond of tolerance, why are you supporting an institution that requires people to live strictly by their interpretation of what is right and wrong, upon punishment of expulsion? That doesn't sound very tolerant to me.

Because TWU, as a private Christian institution, has the right to request that anyone that attends sign the covenant. If you don't want to sign the covenant, then don't and go to a different school.

Actually they are saying no based on the discriminatory policies of the school. The discrimination is being put forth as part of the religious doctrines of the administration of the school.

What discriminatory policies? Are they saying Gays can't attend?

 

[petros]

The Catholic Church does not condone nor does it recognize SSM. As far as I know, it never has. The Catholic Church also does not condone pre marital sex and considers it a sin. This is also something that has not changed over the years. These are basic tenets of the Catholic Church that all Catholics are expected to support. It is no different than what TWU expects from it's students.

Now, all of that being said, do all Catholics support the above? No, even though they may have received at least 5 of the 7 sacraments. Just like not all members of TWU may live their lives to the letter of the covenant they have signed. The covenant is an expression of Faith, and that is all it is.

As an example, there are many teachers that have gone through TWU and now teach in non sectarian schools. They don't teach a slanted outlook on life just because they signed a "covenant" with the School they attended.

SSM is not recognized as legitimate in the eyes of the Vatican but I have never heard anything that gay couple can't be gay couples and when it came to sex we were instructed to make wise choices never to avoid it because it's a sin. Plenty of instructing on what is right or wrong and to expect circumstances of your actions and to be sincere in asking for forgiveness.

Nobody mentioned lightning bolts and wrath, just good advice. I guess some people take the advice as a demand?

 

[gerryh]

SSM is not recognized as legitimate in the eyes of the Vatican but I have never heard anything that gay couple can't be gay couples and when it came to sex we were instructed to make wise choices never to avoid it because it's a sin. Plenty of instructing on what is right or wrong and to expect circumstances of your actions and to be sincere in asking for forgiveness.

Nobody mentioned lightning bolts and wrath, just good advice. I guess some people take the advice as a demand?

Wow, I'm stating doctrine and your arguing the rank and file.

 

[damngrumpy]

If it wasn't so sad it would be laughable. Imagine having people sign such a document
in the first place. These people are adults in university and what they do and who they
do it with is no ones business. Besides many of them will sign anything because the
religion is so repressive its easier to sign and just dow what they're going to do and
yes it happens all the time. If parents and the church think that is a preventative measure
they are dreaming
Now for the second part it is equal nonsense to deny someone to practice because they
signed a religious document, unless the person entering the profession discriminates
against people who don't follow their particular brand of religion.
I think both sides should get with the twenty first century Besides Trudeau once said
the government has no place in the bedrooms of the nation and that should go for the legal
system and the church for that matter. It is none of anyone's business what two consenting
adults do in their private time

 

[BornRuff]

They made the choice to live by what they believe and choose to do or not do in their PERSONAL life.

If my assoc told me what I can or can't do in my personal life, they'd be standing in front of judge before lunch and cutting me cheque shortly after lunch before turning in resignation letters.

Why don't you use this same logic when thinking about the school? If a school tells you what you can or can't do in your personal life, why is that ok?

The decision has nothing to do with telling potential future graduates what they can and can't do in their personal life. It is about accrediting a school that tells people what they can and can't do in their personal life.

 

[petros]

Wow, I'm stating doctrine and your arguing the rank and file.

Yeah. Were you ever FORCED into being anti-gay? Were you ever forced to not have sex? Were you ever FORCED to be Catholic? Have you ever heard a Priest insist you do anything?

Read through some of the posts. They think it's a demand to follow doctrine or no more bisquits and wine for you.

 

[BornRuff]

Then why not allow the Law program at TWU?

Because they impose discriminatory policies on people who want to become lawyers.

Because TWU, as a private Christian institution, has the right to request that anyone that attends sign the covenant. If you don't want to sign the covenant, then don't and go to a different school.

Why is that ok with you, but you don't seem to think it is ok to say that the law society has the right to require that schools they accredit don't discriminate against prospective lawyers and if schools want to discriminate, they can try to get accredited somewhere else?

What discriminatory policies? Are they saying Gays can't attend?

They are saying that people who are sexually active can be expelled from the school. They say that people who are gay have to effectively stop being gay if they want to attend. Beyond being discriminatory, it is just stupid. Why should anyone try to control what anyone else does in their bedroom?