Two Women’s Fight For Power In Redneck Country

[L Gilbert]

Well I gotta say, my kids and neices/nephews are all in and around that age. I hear more talk from them about having DDs than I do from folks in my own age bracket. So the message is getting through to many of them at least as far as not getting behind the wheel after they've been drinking.

As to the binge-drinking though, I'd say you're right on. Lasts a year or two at most where if they have one drink, then they have several. At least from my observation with those that I know.

I think it's getting better, too. Still, with population increasing I doubt there's any less D&D than there was in my days. The ratio of responsible kids and idiot kids is just different.
Our kids started drinking booze (an occasional sip) when they were about 6, yet neither would ever D&D, and I doubt either have been drunk more than a couple times. There's a few other aspects we refused to inflict bans on, too. And I also think it had a lot to do with the fact that we recognized early that kids learn by example. So when kids see their parents partying it up and drinking loads of booze, they want to try it, too. lol


Lol. Yes, I know. But you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]Yeah, attention to driving instead of everything else but.

 

[gerryh]

And I also think it had a lot to do with the fact that we recognized early that kids learn by example. So when kids see their parents partying it up and drinking loads of booze, they want to try it, too. lol

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.... that would be the main and only reason kids drink or don't drink.....because they see their parents do it or not......

 

[L Gilbert]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.... that would be the main and only reason kids drink or don't drink

If that's what you think I said, go ahead and think it, but you'd be wrong......

because they see their parents do it or not......

It's one reason. Did I say there was only one reason? Nope.

 

[gerryh]

...It's one reason. Did I say there was only one reason? Nope.

The implication of what you wrote is that it is the main reason. reread what and how you wrote it. If that is not what you meant then you should endeavor to make yourself clearer.

 

[SLM]

I think it's getting better, too. Still, with population increasing I doubt there's any less D&D than there was in my days. The ratio of responsible kids and idiot kids is just different.

You'll never legislate bad or criminal behaviour out of existence. We've had laws against murder since the dawn of time (an expression, don't correct me on my history) and people still kill other people. And while I'd certainly never say this applies to all young adults across the nation, it's just been my observation that my kids, their friends, or children of my friends and acquaintances do seem to take the 'don't drink and drive' message to heart a lot more than adults do. Certainly, there are still many young adults that do get tanked and get behind the wheel. But for the most part, I'm under the impression that most of the news stories I hear about involving drunk driving concern adults who should know better. And I think it's directly related to what JLM was speaking of earlier, people who say "well I've driven for years, I know what I'm doing, I'm sure I can handle it". And maybe for the most part they can handle it, but they never seem to take into account that it only takes a second to cause serious harm and alcohol does impact your ability to react. Plain and simple.

Our kids started drinking booze (an occasional sip) when they were about 6, yet neither would ever D&D, and I doubt either have been drunk more than a couple times. There's a few other aspects we refused to inflict bans on, too. And I also think it had a lot to do with the fact that we recognized early that kids learn by example. So when kids see their parents partying it up and drinking loads of booze, they want to try it, too. lol

We never really had booze in the house when my kids were little, my ex just simply didn't drink so it would be rare that I'd drink at home myself. No reason why not, we just didn't. Our kids maybe would have half a glass of wine at Christmas dinner perhaps when they were in their early teens but they never seemed all that interested. They both did some moderate partying when they became of age but nothing extreme.

When my son was little he used to lick the last drop (and it really was a drop) out of my father in laws glass of rye and ginger. I'm sure it was mostly melted ice and gingerale at that point, but he did lick his chops when he was done, lol. To this day, my son still drinks gingerale with his rye. Blech!

 

[L Gilbert]

The implication of what you wrote is that it is the main reason. reread what and how you wrote it. If that is not what you meant then you should endeavor to make yourself clearer.

People see what they want to see.

 

[gerryh]

The fact is, I have 7 kids and they don't all follow your little rule of thumb. I could also expand out to my brothers and sisters compared to my Mom and Dad and even further to cousins and their parents. Not one family follows your "do as they saw their parents do".

 

[L Gilbert]

You'll never legislate bad or criminal behaviour out of existence. We've had laws against murder since the dawn of time (an expression, don't correct me on my history) and people still kill other people. And while I'd certainly never say this applies to all young adults across the nation, it's just been my observation that my kids, their friends, or children of my friends and acquaintances do seem to take the 'don't drink and drive' message to heart a lot more than adults do. Certainly, there are still many young adults that do get tanked and get behind the wheel. But for the most part, I'm under the impression that most of the news stories I hear about involving drunk driving concern adults who should know better. And I think it's directly related to what JLM was speaking of earlier, people who say "well I've driven for years, I know what I'm doing, I'm sure I can handle it". And maybe for the most part they can handle it, but they never seem to take into account that it only takes a second to cause serious harm and alcohol does impact your ability to react. Plain and simple.

yep. Another thing that's pretty plain and simple is that habits learned young are hard to break the longer they are allowed to continue.
Stress doesn't help out any either.

We never really had booze in the house when my kids were little, my ex just simply didn't drink so it would be rare that I'd drink at home myself. No reason why not, we just didn't. Our kids maybe would have half a glass of wine at Christmas dinner perhaps when they were in their early teens but they never seemed all that interested. They both did some moderate partying when they became of age but nothing extreme.

Cool

When my son was little he used to lick the last drop (and it really was a drop) out of my father in laws glass of rye and ginger. I'm sure it was mostly melted ice and gingerale at that point, but he did lick his chops when he was done, lol. To this day, my son still drinks gingerale with his rye. Blech!

lol Our youngest loved a sip or two of dry wine to go with her dill pickles. She made the funniest faces when she had wine and pickles but she loved it. lol

The fact is, I have 7 kids and they don't all follow your little rule of thumb. I could also expand out to my brothers and sisters compared to my Mom and Dad and even further to cousins and their parents. Not one family follows your "do as they saw their parents do".

So? There's bound to be all kinds of exceptions. And like I said, I didn't claim that there was any "main" way kids learn. Are you implying that the "do as I do, not as I say" instruction is the main reason kids learn?

 

[JLM]

Gez, I was born and raised in Alberta and have, for all but about 14 years, lived here. Please, tell me what is the meaning of redneck so that when I meet one I'll know.

Thanks so much!

That is a guy (or gal) with no collar who has spent too much time in the sun.

 

[gerryh]

Are you implying that the "do as I do, not as I say" instruction is the main reason kids learn?

Quote where I stated OR implied any such thing.

 

[JLM]

Kids are great imitators (the problem at times is who they imitate).

 

[gerryh]

Kids are great imitators (the problem at times is who they imitate).

That's right, and really, parents have very little control over who those kids choose to imitate.

 

[L Gilbert]

Quote where I stated OR implied any such thing.

Yet you assumed that I made a claim about a "main" way kids learn. lol Lighten up, Gerry, that question was just me retaliating for your assumption that I claimed something.

That's right, and really, parents have very little control over who those kids choose to imitate.

Quite true, but kids tend to look up to their parents more than others.

 

[relic]

Simple fact is,young people like to try stuff on,the what happens when I do this syndrome,and if nothing bad happens,they'll push it 'till they get bored or find a better game.Some people just don't seem to grow out of it.

 

[wulfie68]

I was being rhetorical.

The underlying spirit was that car accidents will occur regardless of what nany statism we impose... Let's face facts, take a look at the sheer number of (small) accidents there are in a parking lot. The root problem stems from so many different causes that eliminating one (albeit one that causes catastrophic results) won't change a thing.

I have to disagree. Impaired driving and distracted driving (whether it is reading, texting, talking on the phone, messing with the radio or whatever) have very direct links to accidents, thus outlawing the behaviours is logical and should have a positive impact on the number of accidents.

As for the constitutionality, I think its a sticky issue, as the Alberta government (as BC before them) is seeking to revoke a privilege without having to prove it in court. Licensing drivers is a provincial perogative, so I imagine if the law was ammended to not come into effect until after a conviction (even at a lower rate of blood alcohol content), they could get around the issue.

Personally, I don't drink at all and drive anymore. I like my ales and my whiskey but its easier to keep things uncomplicated and not do it. Its also not a big deal for me because my wife is a horrible passenger and wants to drive, so I can have a beer/drink pretty much whenever I feel a desire to do so

 

[captain morgan]

I have to disagree. Impaired driving and distracted driving (whether it is reading, texting, talking on the phone, messing with the radio or whatever) have very direct links to accidents, thus outlawing the behaviours is logical and should have a positive impact on the number of accidents.

I fully agree with you Wulfie. The point i was trying to make was that the consequences of the variation in actions (that may result in similar consequences) have dramatically different fines/charges involved... My position is that there should be parallel penalties for any action that may have a similar result.

As for the constitutionality, I think its a sticky issue, as the Alberta government (as BC before them) is seeking to revoke a privilege without having to prove it in court. Licensing drivers is a provincial perogative, so I imagine if the law was ammended to not come into effect until after a conviction (even at a lower rate of blood alcohol content), they could get around the issue.

To my knowledge, i understand that the 'constitutionality' of the legislation is founded more on a 'guilty until proven innocent' basis... But that's just my belief/opinion.

Personally, I don't drink at all and drive anymore. I like my ales and my whiskey but its easier to keep things uncomplicated and not do it. Its also not a big deal for me because my wife is a horrible passenger and wants to drive, so I can have a beer/drink pretty much whenever I feel a desire to do so

I'm right there with you on that!

the solution in taking a cab or designated driver is just far too easy... There is no excuse for getting behind the wheel after drinking.

 

[JLM]

To my knowledge, i understand that the 'constitutionality' of the legislation is founded more on a 'guilty until proven innocent' basis... But that's just my belief/opinion.




.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a nice sentiment and I don't question the propriety of the philosophy. But there is one ingredient that comes into it...........................MONEY. There are so many laws on the books now and so many people breaking them, that the money simply isn't available to formally process every breach, by the book. We want to make sure the murders, kidnappings, rapes, child molestations, assaults and drug trade is properly prosecuted and find another way of dealing with lesser offenses. I think the way to do that is to set a default penalty less than the customary one if the guy wants to plead guilty (out of court), but if he doesn't and is in fact proven guilty (in court) then he should suffer the severest penalty..........................If all that makes sense. :smile:

 

[Bar Sinister]

I read somewhere.........I can't find it, that the accident among all drivers rate statistically does not start to go up until the BAC hits .11.

I am unaware of your source, but recent studies have shown that drivers show signs of serious impairment at levels far below .08. The .08 level is really quite arbitrary and to my knowledge was not based on any actual study of impairment. You might be comfortable with .08, but the person you run into at that level might have a different opinion.

Impaired Driving - Why You Should Never Drink and Drive

I note that in Alberta the strongest opposition to lowering the level below .08 did not come from any scientific body, but the restaurant and bar industry. To hell with the fact that drinking a driving kills and injures thousands of people a year so long as restaurants and bars can maintain their sales levels. Capitalism at its best.

Restaurants fear losses if drunk driving laws toughened - Calgary - CBC News

 

[JLM]

I am unaware of your source, but recent studies have shown that drivers show signs of serious impairment at levels far below .08. The .08 level is really quite arbitrary and to my knowledge was not based on any actual study of impairment. You might be comfortable with .08, but the person you run into at that level might have a different opinion.

Impaired Driving - Why You Should Never Drink and Drive

I note that in Alberta the strongest opposition to lowering the level below .08 did not come from any scientific body, but the restaurant and bar industry. To hell with the fact that drinking a driving kills and injures thousands of people a year so long as restaurants and bars can maintain their sales levels. Capitalism at its best.

Restaurants fear losses if drunk driving laws toughened - Calgary - CBC News

You can quote all the figures and statistics you want, but it's not going to change much, people who are determined to drink and drive are going to because by nature they do what THEY want to do!

 

[Colpy]

Under their liberal leader, Alison Redford, the Progressives have tried something new this election. They’ve run against Alberta.

That has worked for political leaders before. But they’ve usually been federal Liberals running against those scary western rednecks. It was safe for Jean Chretien and Paul Martin to run against Alberta when they knew they wouldn’t get seats in the province anyways. It’s novel for an Alberta politician to do the same.

Political suicide, Alberta-style - Bashing western rednecks will cost Alison Redford dearly - Ezra Levant