Too snotty?

[Tonington]

Yeah, I do have the momma bear instinct. I've taken more than one issue to the principal regarding my kids, and if I think my kid needs something, I don't hesitate to push for it. I've had more than one person at their schools comment on it. With my son, the most notable was my push to get him seen by a counselor and have him assessed, so that i didn't have to do the 'something's wrong with your kid' dance all year long with his teacher. She hinted ONCE about behavioral disorder, and I had him STRAIGHT into the school counselor, and got the teacher straightened out. lol. It gave me and the teacher peace of mind to know that nothing was wrong, and it brought a third party in to make sure the teacher and I were on the same page about how the issues (social issues like I've never seen at any other school) would best be handled.

I'm not sure how things are in Alberta, but in NS for instance, they don't have enough psychologists employed by the school board, and they are trying to get the teachers now to administrate the tests. My mother has a masters degree, and theoretically could do the testing, but that would put even more work on her shoulders. As is, she teaches primary education, does reading recovery which requires many extra hours of her own free time, and she has to be in the meetings between parents, principal and psychologist for these meetings. Most times the psychologist simply will echo the teachers initial findings, and then there is horrendous amounts of beurocratic BS. My mom says she would do the testing, since she was trained for this in her masters, but not without extra pay, and a different job title. There is no way she can do all of these things that people expect, without neglecting her job as a primary educator.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

I know i'd sure as hell be insulted if someone said "All conference Marketers are morons." Wrong. A few conference Marketers you've come in contact with (and heard stories from your friends, etc...) were bad and as such, you've labeled the entire group. pretty lame.

No, no -- not morons -- a-ssholes. Please get it right.

 

[karrie]

I'm not sure how things are in Alberta, but in NS for instance, they don't have enough psychologists employed by the school board, and they are trying to get the teachers now to administrate the tests. My mother has a masters degree, and theoretically could do the testing, but that would put even more work on her shoulders. As is, she teaches primary education, does reading recovery which requires many extra hours of her own free time, and she has to be in the meetings between parents, principal and psychologist for these meetings. Most times the psychologist simply will echo the teachers initial findings, and then there is horrendous amounts of beurocratic BS. My mom says she would do the testing, since she was trained for this in her masters, but not without extra pay, and a different job title. There is no way she can do all of these things that people expect, without neglecting her job as a primary educator.

Ah, it's going to sound bad I know, but I lucked out due to the high first nations population at that school. There were a LOT of kids in Fort St John with FAS and family abuse issues needing continual counselling. Because of their need, I had quick access to a dedicated school counselor, who was more than happy to help out a mom who brought her kid in voluntarily to nip an issue BEFORE it became a problem, rather than waiting until a full blown social dysfunction had formed.

My son had the misfortune of ending up in a class room where 15 out of the 20 kids had been friends since their moms all took lamaz class together. And those 15 kids came from predominantly snotty moms, and acted accordingly. To have your kindergarten kid come home and repeat how many times that day he got told to stay away from them, he wasn't their friend, was just unbelievable. Cliques in Kindergarten! All of his friends that year ended up being from the other class, kids we'd get together with outside of school. Once we moved to Edmonton, he fit in almost seamlessly with his class, and only got in one school yard tussle.

 

[Tonington]

That's sad that the kids are already acting out against those who don't fit into their groups at such a young age. My family moved around, by grade two I had been in four different schools. I was lucky I guess that there was no cliques to speak of, and I fit right in everywhere I went, being a good athlete helps

 

[karrie]

That's sad that the kids are already acting out against those who don't fit into their groups at such a young age. My family moved around, by grade two I had been in four different schools. I was lucky I guess that there was no cliques to speak of, and I fit right in everywhere I went, being a good athlete helps

Their new school isn't like that Tonington. And I've never seen it on such a grand scale as that, especially at such a young age.

 

[Tonington]

Yeah, that's really bewildering....

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Their new school isn't like that Tonington. And I've never seen it on such a grand scale as that, especially at such a young age.

Thats very odd. At my son's school everybody is a 'friend'. I don't think he even understands the concept of another kid his age not being a friend.

 

[karrie]

I have to tell you, my son, other than being a bit rammy as little boys are, had never had trouble making friends. And then all of a sudden I'm being hauled into the principal's office and being told by his teacher he's beating up other kids and has a social dysfunction disorder. I talked to some of the moms from the English program about him, getting their take on what he's like, and all their kids got along so well with him at after school stuff that they all just scratched their heads in confusion over the whole thing.

It took a lot of coaxing to get him to start talking about why he was having troubles. And once he started, and the teacher knew what to look for, the whole thing became abundantly clear. I would volunteer in that class, and it was like children of the freaking corn. One little boy, another outside the group like my son, leaned over and whispered to a little girl, just loud enough for me to hear, that he thought her coloring was beautiful. The little girl screeched and ran to the teacher... "teacher, ____ is being rude!!". The teacher scolded the poor boy, and I had to step in and explain what was said. Needless to say, I was ecstatic to get my kid out of that environment. The 'you don't belong', 'you're not invited to my party because my mom says you're awful', 'we don't like you, go away' mentality was too bizarre for me. I was terrified of what it would do to my son in the long term.

 

[Curiosity]

Tonington

Students enrolled in the Masters' Psych programs do evaluations and testing for free as part of their coursework down here - they have to do these to learn - why doesn't the school system utilize them with an overseer practitioner for consult.

Some of the computerized testing can even be handled by the four-year students - they are all mapped out as to Q&A...they just can't evaluate results.

 

[Philo Cojones]

No, no -- not morons -- a-ssholes. Please get it right.

Oh Doug. I missed you most of all. :smile:

 

[Tonington]

Tonington

Students enrolled in the Masters' Psych programs do evaluations and testing for free as part of their coursework down here - they have to do these to learn - why doesn't the school system utilize them with an overseer practitioner for consult.

Some of the computerized testing can even be handled by the four-year students - they are all mapped out as to Q&A...they just can't evaluate results.

Well, in my mothers School district, there is no University institution. There are a number of teachers back in my hometown with the education to perform these tests, but the resources needed would dictate that they lose time or teaching hours somewhere, which is not what that Masters program is intended for. My mother took the program to become a better teacher, not a psychologist or counselor. If that is what the school board wanted, they certainly didn't make their intentions clear to their employees, which has many of them rather upset. Pushing things like crafting individual program protocols, or individual modified program protocols isn't an easy task to do. In my opinion these things should be done with consultation from the teachers, but not laid solely on the laps of already overworked teachers.

 

[Curiosity]

Tonington

I understand your mother's thoughts and difficulties - there are many small towns in California who have no direct access to university programs either but the students are sent on outreach programs for a week here and a week there as part of their training -

No teacher should have to be responsible for anything but the willing and ready to learn children as a group, whose parents will support the teaching effort at home.

Any deviation from this group should receive special attention other than classroom time.

If there is followup testing and/or counselling - the matter is brought to the school district and the family - not the individual teacher.

 

[Ariadne]

Kind of concerned about the lack of respect for teachers around here. most are worthless? they're all idiots? Generalizing is a dangerous game kids. I'm probably closer to a school headin age then most of you (just guessing here)...never had a problem with most of my teachers. only ever one....and we, as students, complained, and fixed the problem. Logic like your peoples is akin to "all cops are dirty" and "all lawyers are crooked". This kind of thinking isn't going to help anything. just because you've had a few bad experiences doesn't make it so everywhere and anywhere.

and no, I'm not a cop, teacher, or lawyer.

in any case, Karrie: why the christ does it matter to this school what size binder your kid has? I'd tell them where to stick it. I commend your letter....I would have been far more scathing and difficult.

I speak from experience - and not a child's perspective. Too many teachers are bullies, idiots, arrogant, condescending, intimidated by bright or clever children, unfair, rude and much more. More often than not, teachers go from high school to university and back to school. They have no opportunity to develop normal professional adult experiences. They quickly gravitate towards cliques and other high school social practices that are still fresh in their minds when they begin teaching. Teachers quickly realize that if they break the rules, they become the favourite teacher so ... they break the rules for some students, but not all. I have nothing but disgust and disrespect for the profession.

 

[Ariadne]

I think kids are far less critical of the quality of their teacher than their parents are philo. We are, admittedly, THE toughest customers around. I wouldn't say all teachers are idiots, but the idiots sure stand out in the crowd, and it all gets judged accordingly. Especially when you're dealing with teachers at an elementary level, who haven't the slightest clue how to deal with elementary aged children.

As for the binder, appaerntly there is a specific purpose for this binder, which is, get this, to carry around their coiled notebook. Ha! So, because the 2" is so big, the coiled note book won't open and lie flat in it. Thus, they need a smaller one. Personally, I have no clue why they could carry the coil notebook around loose in their pack in grade one, and now need it in a binder (do they get more destructive as they age? not in my experience!), but I hope to find out when my daughter returns today.

Teachers with low marks and no specialization have no choice but to teach in an elementary school. Teachers with higher marks and some sort of specialization teach in secondary school.

 

[Ariadne]

no kids. just opinions. ;-)

What i do know, and what is at issue here, is that judging the many by the inept few is detrimental to change. how is anything going to be fixed if the good teachers are not recognized? and they're all painted with the same brush?

I know i'd sure as hell be insulted if someone said "All conference Marketers are morons." Wrong. A few conference Marketers you've come in contact with (and heard stories from your friends, etc...) were bad and as such, you've labeled the entire group. pretty lame.

it's like those people who get a bad waiter/waitress at one restaurant and tell everyone they know that the "service is terrible there" and they're "never eating there again." also lame.

too much hate and nitpicking in this world kids..... let's try and tone it down a little.

The first step for good teachers to be recognized is for their colleagues to recognize them. Teachers often prefer to step on each other's heads to get ahead. For example, they frequently plagiarize other's work, put their own names on it and claim that it is their work. The school system condones this behavior ... claiming that it is sharing resources; regardless of whether the author prefers not to share. They penalize students for plagiarizing, but it is rampant in the profession.

Generalizations are frequently wrong but, with teachers, generalizations and stereotypes seem to be fairly accurate.

 

[Ariadne]

I'm not sure how things are in Alberta, but in NS for instance, they don't have enough psychologists employed by the school board, and they are trying to get the teachers now to administrate the tests. My mother has a masters degree, and theoretically could do the testing, but that would put even more work on her shoulders. As is, she teaches primary education, does reading recovery which requires many extra hours of her own free time, and she has to be in the meetings between parents, principal and psychologist for these meetings. Most times the psychologist simply will echo the teachers initial findings, and then there is horrendous amounts of beurocratic BS. My mom says she would do the testing, since she was trained for this in her masters, but not without extra pay, and a different job title. There is no way she can do all of these things that people expect, without neglecting her job as a primary educator.

Exactly. Even in Alberta, specialists complain that they have too much work so now teachers, that are completely unqualified to assess learning and behavioral problems, are required to develop learning programs for coded children. The attitude is that teachers can do everything, even develop a program of study for learning and behavioral needs children without any training.

Another good point - teachers not only exploit each other's time and abilities, but if they come across a student that is particularly skilled in, say, computers, they will not hesitate to exploit the student as well.

 

[Curiosity]

One more issue on this topic from me..... I am disappointed that the topic of psychological evaluation and testing has become an open topic even within the school staffing.

Confidentiality has always been the anchor stone for success in helping - in order to feel free to self-express without future recrimination from others.

That teachers should be part of this 'teamwork' is unfair to them - the child - and the family. The
school administration should understand and appreciate it goes against all the proven mandates of therapeutic evaluation and hopefully relief and redirection - without privacy it is useless experiment and a waste of time.

 

[karrie]

One more issue on this topic from me..... I am disappointed that the topic of psychological evaluation and testing has become an open topic even within the school staffing.

Confidentiality has always been the anchor stone for success in helping - in order to feel free to self-express without future recrimination from others.

That teachers should be part of this 'teamwork' is unfair to them - the child - and the family. The
school administration should understand and appreciate it goes against all the proven mandates of therapeutic evaluation and hopefully relief and redirection - without privacy it is useless experiment and a waste of time.

Hmm. Confidentiality is important in creating a trusting environment yes. But I think part of how much confidentiality is required, is dictated by what sort of problem there is. At my son's age (he's just now 6), when you're dealing with behavioral redirection it seems, to me at least, to be more pressing for his overall development, to have all his caregivers on the same page in how such redirection should take place. If a teacher hasn't been told what conclusions a therapist has come to, and what she feels should be happening within the classroom setting to facilitate, then you may as well have not taken him for the help in the first place.

Teachers play such a hugely critical role in children's day to day lives. They have the power to completely undermine any advances a parent has made, or to help speed them along.

 

[Tonington]

I can honestly say I've only had one bad teacher in my entire time spent in school, 2 if I include university studies. The average person has absolutely no comprehension whatsoever what the position entails. There are curriculum changes almost every year. Good teachers don't take the entire summer off. They plan for the next year, catch up on curriculum changes, and in the case of my mother as a primary teacher, plan orientation for the kids and even do some of the cleaning that her lousy school janitor doesn't keep up on. How horrible would it be on your first day of school to walk into a dirty disgusting classroom.

When a child misbehaves, 9/10 the parents side with their kids, which isn't unusual. But the hostility definitely is, and frankly it sometimes is an indicator of possible root causes of the bad behaviour some kids show in class.

Ariadne, I'm not sure where your views originate, but primary educators are not the ones who make poor marks. In B.Ed programs, primary education is a major. The issues teachers are trained for differ greatly between say a primary school teacher and a high school math teacher.

My mother frequently runs into past students and every single one of them loved her. She could be walking through the mall, and a young kid will scream her name and run to give her a hug with open arms.

I agree that there are some bad apples out there, for instance the university kids who go into education because it pays allright, and they get decent vacations. Those who love the job are invaluable as both mentors and the people who help our children grow. To tar them all is completely ignorant of all the good teachers out there, and I think the majority of them are.

 

[Ariadne]

I can honestly say I've only had one bad teacher in my entire time spent in school, 2 if I include university studies. The average person has absolutely no comprehension whatsoever what the position entails. There are curriculum changes almost every year. Good teachers don't take the entire summer off. They plan for the next year, catch up on curriculum changes, and in the case of my mother as a primary teacher, plan orientation for the kids and even do some of the cleaning that her lousy school janitor doesn't keep up on. How horrible would it be on your first day of school to walk into a dirty disgusting classroom.

When a child misbehaves, 9/10 the parents side with their kids, which isn't unusual. But the hostility definitely is, and frankly it sometimes is an indicator of possible root causes of the bad behaviour some kids show in class.

Ariadne, I'm not sure where your views originate, but primary educators are not the ones who make poor marks. In B.Ed programs, primary education is a major. The issues teachers are trained for differ greatly between say a primary school teacher and a high school math teacher.

My mother frequently runs into past students and every single one of them loved her. She could be walking through the mall, and a young kid will scream her name and run to give her a hug with open arms.

I agree that there are some bad apples out there, for instance the university kids who go into education because it pays allright, and they get decent vacations. Those who love the job are invaluable as both mentors and the people who help our children grow. To tar them all is completely ignorant of all the good teachers out there, and I think the majority of them are.

At universities that offer 1 or 2 year teaching degrees, higher grades and core course specializations (math, english, history, science, etc.) are required for secondary teaching positions whereas lower grades and non-core course based degrees can only teach elementary school.