They hate our freedom....

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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This was written about the U.S. by an American but it certainly applies to Canada as well.

Whenever I hear “they hate us because of our freedom” or "because they hate our way of life" or some other such drivel, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. If real people didn’t suffer the consequences of it, such ignorance would be amusing. But another annoying thing about statements like these is that they perpetuate the myth that we live in a land of freedom. The sad fact is, we are not free, and haven't been for a long, long time.

In They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45, Milton Mayer wrote about how the German people kept believing they were still free while the Nazis were tightening their control and extending their power over every facet of life. At first people refused to see the obvious, because the infringements on their freedom were coming in small steps. Each of those small steps, on its own, seemed to be no big deal, nothing to rebel against. But by the time you could no longer ignore the big picture, it was too late. “Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing) . . . You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.” Remember, all the people had to do for all that to happen was--nothing. The same phenomenon is happening right here, right now, in the U.S. of A. It had been proceeding at a slower rate than 70 years ago in Germany , but now the pace quickens.

I know there are some who will say, “Wait a minute, fella. You’re going too far. The U.S. of A. is still a free country.” O.K., then. If you’re free, you should have no trouble doing something that people have done for time immemorial. Buy a cow, shelter and feed and care for it, milk it, and sell the milk. Go ahead, try it and see what happens. Come back and let us know how free you are to do such a simple thing, which has been done since the dawn of civilization.

You need government permission to make your home, travel, earn a living, defend yourself, obtain medical treatment, and educate your children. You will never get government approval for many of those things in many places. You will never get government permission to entertain your mind and body in unapproved ways. At certain times, you cannot criticize those who decide who and what gets approved. You must sell your property to the government if they want it, and you must kill and die for them if they tell you to. And you have no choice but to pay for it all anyway, whether you like it or not.

And still, we think we are free.

http://tinyurl.com/2kp5h
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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While Al Hambidge has written an amusing article, most, but not all of the "freedoms" he mourns about losing, we lost for completely reasonable motives. I don't think any of us would want to go back to unpasteurized milk, or having houses built with no rules to ensure their safety. The laws that bother me the most are those that effect my wealth{joke) and well being. For instance, some politician can decide to redirect a street and force me to give up my home at what someone else decides is a fair price. This has never happened to me but I have seen it happen.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I don't nesseccarily agree with the whole propoganda that goes with the "they hate our freedom" idea. But do the fundamentalist, both Christian and Islamic not find the sins we can commit with the freedoms we have to be so hanous, that they would wish for nothing more then to strip us of most of our freedoms?

Both religions have their fringe groups that would want to inspect our closets and bedrooms before we were allowed to procreate. Only one of them is willing to murder on mass to enslave the planet though.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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"People" believe that wealth and prosperity are "freedom". We are a consumer society that has been conditioned to apply the metric of ownership as "prosperity" measured through the metric of consumption regardless of consequence. Our "freedom" is to consume at a level that keeps the wealthy in power and the quality of life of the great unwashed at as close to a subsistance level as they will tolerate. Our principles and "values" as a society have been refined and sculpted by the artificial gestalt erected through consumption-programming by the "marketplace". We objectify values through brand-name associations and regard our fundamental "freedom" as the freedom to consume. Environmental damage doesn't matter, disproportion of lifes necessities doesn't matter and the value of human life is defined by the individuals facility to exhibit or demonstrate conspicuous consumption without regard for or consideration of any other factor.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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"People" believe that wealth and prosperity are "freedom". We are a consumer society that has been conditioned to apply the metric of ownership as "prosperity" measured through the metric of consumption regardless of consequence. Our "freedom" is to consume at a level that keeps the wealthy in power and the quality of life of the great unwashed at as close to a subsistance level as they will tolerate. Our principles and "values" as a society have been refined and sculpted by the artificial gestalt erected through consumption-programming by the "marketplace". We objectify values through brand-name associations and regard our fundamental "freedom" as the freedom to consume. Environmental damage doesn't matter, disproportion of lifes necessities doesn't matter and the value of human life is defined by the individuals facility to exhibit or demonstrate conspicuous consumption without regard for or consideration of any other factor.

Ah, but we do have liberty. And a distinction should be drawn between the two. Freedom does not have parameters, it is a concept quite separate from liberty.

Mikey DB, you can rant all you wish about the inequalities and injustice that exist in this society, but you can not be prosecuted for that. You are at liberty to speak, you are at liberty to organize and work for change, you are at liberty to seize political power............if you can command a majority in the House.

Go for it.:)
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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Our "freedom" is to consume at a level that keeps the wealthy in power and the quality of life of the great unwashed at as close to a subsistance level as they will tolerate.

This is enormously silly.

Does your "subsistence" lifestyle require Internet bandwidth?

The last 200 years have created wealth at a rate that is unmatched in human history. It has nothing to do with antiquated neo-Marxist, class-baiting rhetoric.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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I don't nesseccarily agree with the whole propoganda that goes with the "they hate our freedom" idea. But do the fundamentalist, both Christian and Islamic not find the sins we can commit with the freedoms we have to be so hanous, that they would wish for nothing more then to strip us of most of our freedoms?

Both religions have their fringe groups that would want to inspect our closets and bedrooms before we were allowed to procreate. Only one of them is willing to murder on mass to enslave the planet though.

If you read what this topic was about, you would know that it had nothing to do with Christianity or Islam.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Toro

Why don't you prove your point Toro?

Why don't you find links on the Internet or if you prefer from books that illustrate the great wealth that's enjoyed by everyone in the world today.....

I anticipate a flood of statistics and observations that will satisfy those who claim there exists a great imbalance between the wealthy and the poor in the world. Surely you can prove that poverty has been defeated all over the globe in the past 200 years right?
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Colpy

We have as you say a degree of liberty, a degree of liberty far in excess of that "enjoyed" by many other cultures and societies. Where you and I will undoubtedly part company is where the great myth of "equality" under this pervasive myth of "prosperity" is confronted. And If I were Jean Chretein or Paul Martin or George Bush or among the number of multi-millionaires who've bought their way into power then yes I might consider buying Colpy's vote....like it's be bought before I'm sure.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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Colpy

We have as you say a degree of liberty, a degree of liberty far in excess of that "enjoyed" by many other cultures and societies. Where you and I will undoubtedly part company is where the great myth of "equality" under this pervasive myth of "prosperity" is confronted. And If I were Jean Chretein or Paul Martin or George Bush or among the number of multi-millionaires who've bought their way into power then yes I might consider buying Colpy's vote....like it's be bought before I'm sure.

I take it you don't vote then MikeyDB?
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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No I haven't voted for a very long time. At the collapse of the Liberal party under the stress of being exposed as theives and charlatans I did however vote. I don't have any faith that my single vote did much to keep these scoundrels out of office but given the caliber of scoundrels who are now in office I regard my misstep in voting on that ocasion as a mistake. We had Paul Martin multi-milionaire demonstrate his real colors by flagging his ships off-shore (CSL) to escape paying taxes....we have Stephe Hapless refunding a billion dollars to the theiving lumber barons in the United States....big difference...NOT!
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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If I'm wrong about the hypocrisy in Paul Martin's moves as principle mover with CSL and I'm wrong that it wasn't the lumber lobby in the U.S. who were responsible for the theft at our borders..please enlighten me.

Until then I'm sorry but the "right" of voting in this nation is a myth and will always be a myth so long as the corruption and malfeseance we see repeated time and time again by every wealthy politician who's bought their way into office continues. You don't live in a "free society" or a "democracy" when the government you've elected can ignore some very grave issues that should have been addressed. Should have been addressed by preventing fouled water supplies that kill people, should have been addressed by funding our military properly, should have been addressed by putting these theives and liars behind bars just like any other individual would be.... unless of course they're the wealthy elite.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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Paul Martin is a hypocrite, that I agree and I agree mostly with what you said about being ripped off on the lumber issue.

As for the politicians, I am not so cynical to think that all they all are corrupt. The on'es that are, deserve what you suggest; jail time.

If you don't think the government is addressing "grave issue, you have a choice. Be bitter about or try and change it by voting for a different party.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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What party Durka?

If you examine the history of all political party's they're are skeletons in everyones closet.

The "system" is flawed and so long as the "system" itself is flawed then voting for any "party" will do nothing more than give another bunch of crooks a shot at destroying the lives of the majority for the enjoyment of the few.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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It's never mattered what the majority of people in any nation thought or wanted. The dicatator the monarch, the sheik the goon with the most money and therefore the best opportunity to buy weapons and arm his goons has always taken the best for himself and squandered the wealth of nations. It is a great injustice that the people of wealthy nations have been funding (foreign aid) regimes that oppress the masses and watched as money intended for food medicine clothing and shelter is squandered at the arms bazzars and goes directly into the pockets of peole whose motivation for involvement is making money on the suffering of millions.

"Democracy" (as can be witnessed in Canada and the United States when people like Bush or Martin are given control) and the voting ritual perpetuate the myth that a nations preparedness to extend a helping hand to others in dire need becomes a fools errand because there is this fundamental chasm between the wealthy and the poor in every nation.

No, everyone can't be filthy rich and not every wealthy person is an inherently evil or bad person, but the notion that we can simply ignore the way these cards are played leads to more difficulties not less.