These guys must be learning from Mulroney

[#juan]

Hear, hear, juan. Now will you be asking your favourite Liberal MP why he was willing to topple a Gov't that wasn't going to spend this amount on bailout packages?

Believe it or not , I voted for the tories last time around. I thought there was a chance they would get a thin majority and the conservative in our riding is a pretty good man. As it turned out I was wrong. I've never been in favour of huge cash bailouts that solve nothing.

 

[Avro]

Complete with the bags of taxpayers cash I imagine.

No, but Cretein and Martin had nothing to do with that.

....actually, for prosperity and keeping us out of Iraq I'd let them take it.

 

[Avro]

You still haven't obtained the cognitive skills to figure out that I'm not a con eh?

You are a con, perhaps a few cleverly placed posts to point to when someone tries to accuse you of being biased but you don't fool me.

Absolutely not. I suspect though, that the spending would have been far lower. Since they were balking at any great stimulus packages, until the opposition threatened to topple the Gov't over their much more fiscally prudent package. Seems pretty clear to me how the ball was bouncing, but then again, I don't view events with politically selective blinders on.

So, the cons abandoned principle to keep power?

They shifted to the center to keep power?

They created Canadian friendly policy to keep power?

Let me guess....they did it to save Canada......:lol:

The government chose to get in the red, nobody forced them. Wishfull thinking by the right who think cons can never do wrong.

Quite true. Who knew you were this much of an asshat.

Name calling?

Not sure why that is called for...I think I'll report it.

No, it should be credited to all the blue collar workers, whose taxes out pace the lower class and the higher classes ten fold.

Blue Collar? Really? So some guy making 70 grand in a office dosen't count?

 

[AnnaG]

What price did we pay?

Jobs, low interest rates, growth, trade surplus....etc etc.

Taxes were not raised other than bracket creep,which was fixed and 1 cent for a liter of gas. The Libs also began to reduce taxes in their final years.

In a few short years the Tories have reversed what had been accomplished.

I'd take the Cretien years back any day of the week.

Wearing your rosy red blinders again huh?

For about the 50th time:

Canada's level of spending on Early Childhood Education and Child Care was the lowest in the industrialized world, at about one half of one percent of GDP, according to OECD figures after Martin stated "First, early childhood development should be an essential part of any economic stimulus package," he said to raucous applause. "More than anything else, it's the gift that keeps giving.";

spending 161 million of Canada's dollars on "contracts" with his shipping company while changing the registration of his ships to foreign ports to avoid paying Canadian taxes;

reforming unemployment insurance didn't happen as promised;

as a result of this Liberal broken promises from their budget - Canada Student Debt student debt skyrocketed;

"As Finance Minister, I cut all federal funding for affordable housing back in ‘96. In 2000, we were forced by popular pressure to toss a few token budget lines at the problem. ";

After Martin promises a open and responsible government there's the thing about millions of $ being moved hours ahead of a statement on market-lifting in income trusts;

putting the provinces out on a limb by cutting transfer payments for healthcare;

canceling almost all seniors programs;

there are dozens more sacrifices.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Why don't we all....drop the reciprocal terms (Labels?) of "Con" & "AssHat" as
both are (or can be construed as) a means to attempt to "Pigeon Hole" each
other into neat little box's which may very well not reflect the contents of these
neat little box's????

Both people using these terms are very capable debaters who do not need to
use these Labels to attempt to Pigeon Hole each other in order to get their
points across.

 

[CDNBear]

Believe it or not , I voted for the tories last time around. I thought there was a chance they would get a thin majority and the conservative in our riding is a pretty good man. As it turned out I was wrong. I've never been in favour of huge cash bailouts that solve nothing.

Neither have I, which is why I will not support Harpo's policies on the economy, and quite frankly, he's done nothing worth supporting thus far. But I certainly wouldn't pin the whole of the debt on them either. The facts just don't support it.

You are a con, perhaps a few cleverly placed posts to point to when someone tries to accuse you of being biased but you don't fool me.

Your posts lack the insight into the nuances of politics espoused by a 12 year old, it's no wonder you haven't the ability to see beyond party ideologies. As for your conspiracy theory there. There are a multitude of threads in which my political ideology is highlighted, from battling priests over same sex marriage and homosexuality, to prochoice debates, Native affiars, my dislike of organized religion and many more. None of which fit the Conservative profile.

I think what is confusing you, and I can see why that would be so easy to do, is my loathing of the Liberal party and the left in general. For being morally bankrupt. Not that the right is any better.

So, the cons abandoned principle to keep power?

Yep

They shifted to the center to keep power?

Yep

They created Canadian friendly policy to keep power?

Yep

Let me guess....they did it to save Canada......:lol:

Nope, to save their collective asses.

The government chose to get in the red, nobody forced them. Wishfull thinking by the right who think cons can never do wrong.

And if you go back and read what is written, if at all possible, even the most challenged of reading levels would be able to ascertain that no one absolved the Conservative party of culpability.

Name calling?

It's what you do best when you haven't the ability to accurately assess the facts presented.

Not sure why that is called for...I think I'll report it.

Feel free.

Blue Collar?

Yes, it has always been the middle class, which is essentially made up of blue collar workers, that have supported the tax base. While the wealthy avoid taxation, and the lower classes enjoy tax exemptions.

Really?

Yes, really.

So some guy making 70 grand in a office dosen't count?

Can't see where I said that. But the fact that you would feel the need to make that up, doesn't surprise me.

 

[relic]

I'm pretty much concerned with what is happening now and the near future.The current governing party is incompetent.Now I'm going to get the same personal attacks and nonsensical arguments I got in the "bye bye Iggy"thing. You torys are like clones of{pick a tory minister}oh lets say john baird,yell a bunch of gibberish and blame smebody,anybody else. I know this will get me burned at the stake,but talking to you people is like a discussion with a woman on pms.

 

[CDNBear]

I'm pretty much concerned with what is happening now and the near future.The current governing party is incompetent.

You forgot unethical, hypocritical and petty.

Now I'm going to get the same personal attacks and nonsensical arguments I got in the "bye bye Iggy"thing.

Not yet.

You torys are like clones of{pick a tory minister}oh lets say john baird,yell a bunch of gibberish and blame smebody,anybody else. I know this will get me burned at the stake,but talking to you people is like a discussion with a woman on pms.

Now you deserve it.

Nothing like asking for abuse eh? If you don't like personal attacks, don't start them.

 

[relic]

What ? Why? I never said I minded the attacks and why should that invite one,facts is facts.

 

[CDNBear]

What ? Why? I never said I minded the attacks and why should that invite one,facts is facts.

If you don't mind them, stop whining about it.

 

[Liberalman]

Thank God we don’t have a fascist government where the MPs are muzzled and can’t make statements to the press and can only read approved statements and where the Prime Minister is just a puppet and the inner circle of non-elected people who control the government.

In fascist governments in other countries they have high deficits and massive unemployment.

I support our freely elected Conservative government and their Conservative values to make this country better and free from fascism.

 

[CDNBear]

Thank God we don’t have a fascist government where the MPs are muzzled and can’t make statements to the press and can only read approved statements and where the Prime Minister is just a puppet and the inner circle of non-elected people who control the government.

In fascist governments in other countries they have high deficits and massive unemployment.

I support our freely elected Conservative government and their Conservative values to make this country better and free from fascism.

 

[relic]

Whining!? I mention it once and thats whining !? meby your pmsing

 

[CDNBear]

Whining!? I mention it once and thats whining !? meby your pmsing

:roll:

Ya that must be it...

 

[barney]

I think what is confusing you, and I can see why that would be so easy to do, is my loathing of the Liberal party and the left in general. For being morally bankrupt. Not that the right is any better.

You see the Liberal Party as "left"...and there I thought for a moment you weren't ideological. Hate to break it to you but bundling NDP and Liberals together into a generic "left" category is typical of...wait for it...the right. Just thought I might point that out to you before you continue with your neutralist spiel.

(Btw, calling the NDP "morally bankrupt" just shows you really haven't a clue about that party's history. But I'll assume that's all the blind hatred of...whatever...talking and not ignorance bordering on stupidity.)

For those who are non-ideologues (clearly very few among you), let it be clear that the Liberal Party shares very similar private and political interests with the Conservative Party. They sometimes shift their policies, fiscal and otherwise, to take in larger voter share, but the bottom line is they are the mainstream and will never deviate in any significant manner from the status quo. The NDP is still at its heart very much the deviant, even with all the mainstream-like image-enhancement attempts by Layton's people at the federal level.

As far as the topic is concerned, the NDP opposed a no-stings bail-out. The "support" was in exchange for a say in the EI bill. Comprende? It's called politics people.

 

[L Gilbert]

(Btw, calling the NDP "morally bankrupt" just shows you really haven't a clue about that party's history. But I'll assume that's all the blind hatred of...whatever...talking and not ignorance bordering on stupidity.)

Why? That's what I called them after Lameton caved in to aPAULing Martin's desperate bribe to help him cling to the PMO.

For those who are non-ideologues (clearly very few among you), let it be clear that the Liberal Party shares very similar private and political interests with the Conservative Party. They sometimes shift their policies, fiscal and otherwise, to take in larger voter share, but the bottom line is they are the mainstream and will never deviate in any significant manner from the status quo.

As well as being fickle and flip-flopping every time they think public opinion changes.

The NDP is still at its heart very much the deviant, even with all the mainstream-like image-enhancement attempts by Layton's people at the federal level.

As far as the topic is concerned, the NDP opposed a no-stings bail-out. The "support" was in exchange for a say in the EI bill. Comprende? It's called politics people.

The Dippers usually oppose anything the others propose just on what they think is their principle and which of the others is in gov't. Big deal. It's what opposition is about. In terms of whether they'd be any good in gov't or not; I would say "not".

Harpy is a doorknob. Kind of neat that the Chinese gave him a come-uppance. Maybe he learned something about other countries.

 

[CDNBear]

You see the Liberal Party as "left"...and there I thought for a moment you weren't ideological.

We all are, some of us don't filter fact through it though.

Hate to break it to you but bundling NDP and Liberals together into a generic "left" category is typical of...wait for it...the right.

You forgot the Green party as well. As I lump them in the same category, even though I voted for them in the last election.

Just thought I might point that out to you before you continue with your neutralist spiel.

Thanx, your confusion is duly noted.

(Btw, calling the NDP "morally bankrupt" just shows you really haven't a clue about that party's history. But I'll assume that's all the blind hatred of...whatever...talking and not ignorance bordering on stupidity.)

:roll:...No, the left in general are morally bankrupt, and as you seemed to have missed it, I stated that the right aren't much better. I could care less about the NDP's history, its present incarnation is as morally bankrupt as any other political party. Only you won't find to many pandering to the likes of the Taliban...;-)

For those who are non-ideologues (clearly very few among you), let it be clear that the Liberal Party shares very similar private and political interests with the Conservative Party. They sometimes shift their policies, fiscal and otherwise, to take in larger voter share, but the bottom line is they are the mainstream and will never deviate in any significant manner from the status quo. The NDP is still at its heart very much the deviant, even with all the mainstream-like image-enhancement attempts by Layton's people at the federal level.

This is very true Barney, and my point exactly.

As far as the topic is concerned, the NDP opposed a no-stings bail-out. The "support" was in exchange for a say in the EI bill. Comprende? It's called politics people.

Again, my point exactly. Funny how your ideology forced you to pigeon hole me and defend the indefencible before you said anything worth while.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

1984-85, Prime Minister Mulroney's first full year in power, the annual federal deficit stood at $3 7.1 billion. It looks like Harper is going to beat that.. Do they still think that cutting the GST and corporate taxes was a good idea? Ask the people who are unemployed.

Juan, in old days (in ancient days, in fact), conservatism used to be associated with fiscal responsibility. Their recipe for economic success was, spending cuts; balance the budget and tax cuts, if possible.

Along came the supply siders, with the Republican Messiah, Reagan. He changed the traditional conservative philosophy slightly. Spending cuts, tax cuts, balance the budget if possible.

Then came neo cons, they changed it even further. Tax cuts, period, hang the rest. That indeed is the conservative philosophy these days, has been for a long time now, both in USA and Canada. They only know how to cut taxes, they know precious little as to how to run the economy.

Indeed, tax cuts is the easy way out. It hands out goodies to the people, there is no price to pay that one can see. Sure there may be budget deficit, debt etc., but that is for the next generation to worry about. People really don’t worry about deficit and debt unless it impacts upon their prosperity.

During Mulroney days, people were not really worried about the deficit; they were worried about the economy, unemployment. Today, the deficit is sky high; the worst ever, we are storing up disaster for the next generation. But people seem quite happy, our economy isn’t doing too badly, certainly we are doing much better than Americans.

I doubt if most Canadians are even aware that we are running an astronomical deficit. Conservatives seem to be doing quite well in the polls. So it is quite possible that Canadians may decide to continue their march towards the cliff (and fall off the cliff) with conservatives yet again, as they did with Mulroney.

I think with tax cuts and huge, astronomical deficits, conservatives may have found the recipe of electoral success.

 

[taxslave]

Mulroney learned it from Trudeau and inherited his debt as well as the long term program spending trudeau foisted upon us.

 

[L Gilbert]

Yup, conservatism has changed. But then so has liberalism.
Modern liberalism includes big government, intrusive tendencies (nannyism), and graft. Quite the opposite of classical liberalism.