"The west wants out": Separatist sentiments growing in Alberta

[Tecumsehsbones]

I see you are not willing to have a genuine discussion of the topic at hand.
Instead, you'd rather attack me when in fact your attack on me - even if it is successful - can not make your wild accusations valid.

Sure, why not? Let's see how far it goes. I'm betting less than a half-dozen posts.

So, let's say Alberta and Saskatchewan secede and form the Republic of Western Canada, or whatever you want to call it.

I'm presuming. . .

1. Independent domestic economy, presumably with reasonable trade with Canada, the U.S., and other countries.

2. No tax money going out of or into the RWC to or from Canada.

3. A small, domestic, land and air only military, without contribution to North American defense as the U.S. and Canada see it. More of a national guard than a true army, and little or no offensive capability.

Now here's some questions. . .

1. How will you handle commerce between BC, Yukon, the NWT, and Canada? Will there be free movement for Canadians across RWC? If not, what rules?

2. Same question for materiel. Will you allow free passage of goods from Canada to, say, BC? Or will you charge tolls for maintenance of the roads and rails of RWC?

3. What form of government will you have, and will Alberta and Saskatchewan remain semi-sovereign provinces? Will they be broken up into more provinces? Unified into a single country with only administrative districts?

4. Will people who want no part of RWC be free to leave? What about their property and jobs? Will RWC recognize dual citizenship with Canada? If so, how will it tax dual citizens or allow them to vote?

That'll do for a start.

 

[JamesBondo]

Sure, why not? Let's see how far it goes. I'm betting less than a half-dozen posts.

So, let's say Alberta and Saskatchewan secede and form the Republic of Western Canada, or whatever you want to call it.

I'm presuming. . .

1. Independent domestic economy, presumably with reasonable trade with Canada, the U.S., and other countries.

2. No tax money going out of or into the RWC to or from Canada.

3. A small, domestic, land and air only military, without contribution to North American defense as the U.S. and Canada see it. More of a national guard than a true army, and little or no offensive capability.

Now here's some questions. . .

1. How will you handle commerce between BC, Yukon, the NWT, and Canada? Will there be free movement for Canadians across RWC? If not, what rules?

2. Same question for materiel. Will you allow free passage of goods from Canada to, say, BC? Or will you charge tolls for maintenance of the roads and rails of RWC?

3. What form of government will you have, and will Alberta and Saskatchewan remain semi-sovereign provinces? Will they be broken up into more provinces? Unified into a single country with only administrative districts?

4. Will people who want no part of RWC be free to leave? What about their property and jobs? Will RWC recognize dual citizenship with Canada? If so, how will it tax dual citizens or allow them to vote?

That'll do for a start.

All of your post presumes that Alberta doesn't have the talent, resources, and experience to handle this sort of thing. What of I were to tell you that the talent is already there and functioning. They just happen to be working in a system that favors Ottawa.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

All of your post presumes that Alberta doesn't have the talent, resources, and experience to handle this sort of thing. What of I were to tell you that the talent is already there and functioning. They just happen to be working in a system that favors Ottawa.

I would say you have nothing to offer, no answers, no opinions, no ideas.

Prove me wrong, or in the future spare me your lectures. If you're mad about transfer payments, then do something about transfer payments, instead of mad fantasizing about firing on Ft. Sumter.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Sure, why not? Let's see how far it goes. I'm betting less than a half-dozen posts.
So, let's say Alberta and Saskatchewan secede and form the Republic of Western Canada, or whatever you want to call it.
I'm presuming. . .
1. Independent domestic economy, presumably with reasonable trade with Canada, the U.S., and other countries.
2. No tax money going out of or into the RWC to or from Canada.
3. A small, domestic, land and air only military, without contribution to North American defense as the U.S. and Canada see it. More of a national guard than a true army, and little or no offensive capability.
Now here's some questions. . .
1. How will you handle commerce between BC, Yukon, the NWT, and Canada? Will there be free movement for Canadians across RWC? If not, what rules?
2. Same question for materiel. Will you allow free passage of goods from Canada to, say, BC? Or will you charge tolls for maintenance of the roads and rails of RWC?
3. What form of government will you have, and will Alberta and Saskatchewan remain semi-sovereign provinces? Will they be broken up into more provinces? Unified into a single country with only administrative districts?
4. Will people who want no part of RWC be free to leave? What about their property and jobs? Will RWC recognize dual citizenship with Canada? If so, how will it tax dual citizens or allow them to vote?
That'll do for a start.

All those things are pretty much in place,1) provinces already have trade agreements with the other provinces with tariffs in place, will just be some tweaking. 2)Infrastructure already has cost sharing in place on inter provincial facilities, Trans Canada and the Yellowhead I believe are 60/40 split Prov/Fed, RR maintain their own. 3) Provinces are already split up in Municipal Governments in place so little tweaking needed here. 4) Need more negotiation on this, but healthcards already define residents of individual provinces, wanna go back to your home province? Here's the door

 

[spilledthebeer]

I would say you have nothing to offer, no answers, no opinions, no ideas.

Prove me wrong, or in the future spare me your lectures. If you're mad about transfer payments, then do something about transfer payments, instead of mad fantasizing about firing on Ft. Sumter.

WELL GOSH T-bonesforbrains................................................


if what you say is true then Bondo has all the style, grace and political acumen....................................


that YOU BRING to most debates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But as it happens........................................


I DO BELIEVE talk of western separatism is wild NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In other words - designed merely to provoke and annoy...............................


without any real or practical goal in mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Rather as you and hemerHOID enjoy doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pgs]

WELL GOSH T-bonesforbrains................................................


if what you say is true then Bondo has all the style, grace and political acumen....................................


that YOU BRING to most debates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But as it happens........................................


I DO BELIEVE talk of western separatism is wild NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In other words - designed merely to provoke and annoy...............................


without any real or practical goal in mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Rather as you and hemerHOID enjoy doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may have your finger on the pulse of Ontario politics , but the scene out west is vastly different. You maybe correct that Albexit is going nowhere fast . But don’t be surprised if like the little engine that could it picks up speed and momentum.

 

[spilledthebeer]

You may have your finger on the pulse of Ontario politics , but the scene out west is vastly different. You maybe correct that Albexit is going nowhere fast . But don’t be surprised if like the little engine that could it picks up speed and momentum.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOOK - I get it......................................


Alberta has very sound reasons for HATING Our idiot Boy Justin and his loser LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I do not argue against that VERY JUSTIFIED ANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But your little engine THAT CANNOT................................


is picking up speed as you say........................................


as it rushes headlong at a BRICK WALL NAMED REALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


For one thing - the just launched oil price war between the Saudis and the Russians and Iranians............................


just WRECKED ALL THE PLANS Kenny has made to bail out Alberta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Alberta will no more be able to separate than Quebec could!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Alberta had a debt load of $64 Billion dollars at the beginning of January 2020.....................................


and by the ned of this year you will be LUCKY if it aint WELL OVER $70 Billion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If things go as bad as some are predicting................................


then the Alberta debt IS STRANDED and the province will be essentially BANKRUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Alberta WILL REQUIRE AID from the rest of Canada..................................


if the oil war and Wuhan Virus have the effect that some cynics expect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


On the plus side - if Wuhan Virus takes a BIG BITE out of Cdn economy..................................


it will ADD to the pressure to get Our idiot Boy OFF THE POLITICAL STAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The idiot Boy will be replaced by others who want Alberta to SELL EVERY POSSIBLE DROP OF OIL IT CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So that Ottawa can get a cut of sales tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


An actual legal Separation would be harder to achieve than BREXIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Alberta DOES NOT HAVE YEARS in which to play stupid political games.........................................


the crisis will be over and the idiot Boy GONE..............................


long before a Separation could be achieved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


To deny my statement about this subject is to be FOOLISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[petros]

You may have your finger on the pulse of Ontario politics , but the scene out west is vastly different. You maybe correct that Albexit is going nowhere fast . But don’t be surprised if like the little engine that could it picks up speed and momentum.

WexitSK applied for party status.

 

[pgs]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOOK - I get it......................................


Alberta has very sound reasons for HATING Our idiot Boy Justin and his loser LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I do not argue against that VERY JUSTIFIED ANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But your little engine THAT CANNOT................................


is picking up speed as you say........................................


as it rushes headlong at a BRICK WALL NAMED REALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


For one thing - the just launched oil price war between the Saudis and the Russians and Iranians............................


just WRECKED ALL THE PLANS Kenny has made to bail out Alberta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Alberta will no more be able to separate than Quebec could!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Alberta had a debt load of $64 Billion dollars at the beginning of January 2020.....................................


and by the ned of this year you will be LUCKY if it aint WELL OVER $70 Billion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If things go as bad as some are predicting................................


then the Alberta debt IS STRANDED and the province will be essentially BANKRUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Alberta WILL REQUIRE AID from the rest of Canada..................................


if the oil war and Wuhan Virus have the effect that some cynics expect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


On the plus side - if Wuhan Virus takes a BIG BITE out of Cdn economy..................................


it will ADD to the pressure to get Our idiot Boy OFF THE POLITICAL STAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The idiot Boy will be replaced by others who want Alberta to SELL EVERY POSSIBLE DROP OF OIL IT CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So that Ottawa can get a cut of sales tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


An actual legal Separation would be harder to achieve than BREXIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Alberta DOES NOT HAVE YEARS in which to play stupid political games.........................................


the crisis will be over and the idiot Boy GONE..............................


long before a Separation could be achieved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


To deny my statement about this subject is to be FOOLISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The problems in Alberta started pre 1867 and continue to this day . They did not start with Justine Trudeau and his liberals . Not one federal government has sought to repair the inequities ( conservative or liberal ) as they like the status quo . Reckoning is coming , it may take another hundred years , but one can only bend over so far .

 

[JamesBondo]

I would say you have nothing to offer, no answers, no opinions, no ideas.

I'd say you are jumping forward into a debate that you built on hasty generalizations about the credentials of the west. You based four questions on a conclusion that is not logically justified by sufficient or unbiased evidence. If you want answers, opinions, ideas, I give you just one for now: You need to back up and make your case.

Prove me wrong,

I do not need to disprove something that was not proven.

or in the future spare me your lectures. If you're mad about transfer payments, then do something about transfer payments, instead of mad fantasizing about firing on Ft. Sumter.

A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

I don't recall speaking of transfer payments, or firing on Ft. Sumter. So, Tecumsehsbones, Nice Strawman arguement!

Sure, why not? Let's see how far it goes. I'm betting less than a half-dozen posts.

I asked for a reasonable discussion. Don't start counting the posts until you are actually reasonable.

 

[petros]

The problems in Alberta started pre 1867 and continue to this day . They did not start with Justine Trudeau and his liberals . Not one federal government has sought to repair the inequities ( conservative or liberal ) as they like the status quo . Reckoning is coming , it may take another hundred years , but one can only bend over so far .

There was no Alberta until 1905.

 

[pgs]

There was no Alberta until 1905.

That is true , however the idea of Canada and it’s Confederation started prior to 1867 and the terms of Alberta and Saskatchewan entering the Confederation were stacked against them from the beginning. The fact that Britain was in financial difficulty at the time did not help the western cause .

 

[spilledthebeer]

That is true , however the idea of Canada and it’s Confederation started prior to 1867 and the terms of Alberta and Saskatchewan entering the Confederation were stacked against them from the beginning. The fact that Britain was in financial difficulty at the time did not help the western cause .

Oh - you have such a remarkable DELUSION OPERATING THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Jason Kenny himself just said it::::::::::


With this latest oil price drop "Alberta has entered UNKNOWN territory"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you think Alberta has problems with natives now.................................


just think how well it will go after Alberta separates.....................................


and native welfare IS CUT OFF because the New Republic is BANKRUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And here is a FUN QUESTION............................


Will Alberta RETAIN the Queen as head of state????????????????????????


Or replace her with a President??????????????????????


And if you go with a President...................................


then WHERE will the Presidential Palace be built???????????????????


Edmonton????????????????????????????????


Calgary????????????????????????????????


Bassano?????????????????????????????????


Drumheller???????????????????????


Should we expect the New Republic will immediately plunge into CIVIL WAR............................


fighting over possession of those good govt jobs??????????????????????????????????


Yes........................Alberta will follow the road to Wexit..............................


straight over a social and economic CLIFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[taxme]

You do not speak for BC. You were not even born here.
There are many in BC that are looking at alternatives, some good some not so good. The Cascadiia ( Pacifica) idea has merit but Washington and Oregon are now so infested with leftys that it would just become a giant Greece.

They do not call the western Pacific states and BC the left coast for nothing. They all have become infested with liberals, socialists and communists and full of crazy in the head environ"mental"ists. BC needs to join up with Alberta if we really want to see our full potential. BC and Alberta joined at the hip can make us all wealthy as hell and can make us all be able to live the lifestyles of the rich and famous. I like that. Smile.

This cannot happen as long as those two provinces remain in Canada. Freedom from french controlled Ottawa is what the west really needs. All the french in Ottawa keep doing and has being doing for decades now is to continue to rob the west of their wealth and money and give it all to the east for them to blow on all of their pet peeve leftist liberal and socialist programs and agendas that does not do a dam thing to try and help make Canada great again. As long as the french are allowed to keep running and and trying to ruin and rule over Western Canada we will never get rich.

How can the West win when approx.70% of the employees working for the federal government are french. They do run this country and have created the many problems that Canada has today. If we wait for Quebec to separate we will be waiting forever. They cannot afford to separate. That is why the West needs to separate from Quebec. The only way to get our freedom and keep our money to ourselves. Trying to negotiate with french controlled Ottawa will never work. It will only truly become an exercise in futility. Works for me.

 

[B00Mer]

That is true , however the idea of Canada and it’s Confederation started prior to 1867 and the terms of Alberta and Saskatchewan entering the Confederation were stacked against them from the beginning. The fact that Britain was in financial difficulty at the time did not help the western cause .

With what just happened regarding Covid-19 and oil prices.. all you hear is separate from Canada.

 

[taxme]

With what just happened regarding Covid-19 and oil prices.. all you hear is separate from Canada.

With a separate Alberta, the price for gas could possibly go a lot lower than what they are today. Lower than what we have seen for decades. But we must first separate and then see what happens.

This Covid 19 virus is just another virus that comes around every year. Thousands die every year from the flu. No one makes a big deal out of it. It is the media that is trying to make a big deal out of it. Who knows that maybe most of those people who they say caught the virus may have the flu instead but is now lumped in there with the virus.

I was in Walmart the other day and all the shelves holding toilet paper were gone. I asked a clerk as to where did all the toilet paper go and he pretty much said the virus is the reason why. For some reason people are stocking up on toilet paper. I wonder why? Does this virus make you take that many trips to the bathroom? Just wondering.

I think that the economy and separation of Alberta is just as important to talk about as the virus. Why should this virus take away the discussion about Alberta separation. Both are important to talk about.

 

[captain morgan]

With what just happened regarding Covid-19 and oil prices.. all you hear is separate from Canada.

I haven't heard nearly enough about it since CV-19 came about, but with a smidgen of luck, it will foster more discussion in the coming months.

 

[spilledthebeer]

I haven't heard nearly enough about it since CV-19 came about, but with a smidgen of luck, it will foster more discussion in the coming months.

Sadly- the ONLY people who think "wexit" is a sensible solution to anything - have the same level of maturity and logic as an ANGRY 5 year old who threatens to run away and join the circus or become a pirate?


Alberta HAS LEGIT complaints but putting on a fright wig and squeezing into a clown car WILL NOT FIX ANYTHING!


The WISE AND MATURE response is to ASSURE Our idiot Boy that the West WILL STAY - and HOUND TRUDOPE at every turn!

 

[pgs]

Sadly- the ONLY people who think "wexit" is a sensible solution to anything - have the same level of maturity and logic as an ANGRY 5 year old who threatens to run away and join the circus or become a pirate?


Alberta HAS LEGIT complaints but putting on a fright wig and squeezing into a clown car WILL NOT FIX ANYTHING!


The WISE AND MATURE response is to ASSURE Our idiot Boy that the West WILL STAY - and HOUND TRUDOPE at every turn!

The only way to control the bureaucracy is to start over . Alberta and Saskatchewan have the opportunity to do just that .

 

[taxslave]

Sadly- the ONLY people who think "wexit" is a sensible solution to anything - have the same level of maturity and logic as an ANGRY 5 year old who threatens to run away and join the circus or become a pirate?
Alberta HAS LEGIT complaints but putting on a fright wig and squeezing into a clown car WILL NOT FIX ANYTHING!
The WISE AND MATURE response is to ASSURE Our idiot Boy that the West WILL STAY - and HOUND TRUDOPE at every turn!

The pirates all run the circus in Ottawa.