The War in avganistan is about hypocrisy and deceit.

[Socrates the Greek]

RE: The War in avganistan

Unfortunately jimmoyer in today’s world Democracy is the name and Hypocrisy is the game.
Unfortunately in a world like to day money talks and bullshit walks.
Wars are about strategic positioning and self interest. There will always be an ulterior motive, and to defend that secretive motive lies are born, to justify wrong. And that my good Canadian pals is wrong.

 

[jimmoyer]

Your position on the matter is not without hypocrisy
and contradiction either.

There is no purity in your motive to leave Afghanistan
nor is their purity if you wish to stay out of Dafur
without killing a few of the perpertrators.

Yours is a self interest all of its own.

And quite myopic as it seeks to ignore any other
plight but Canadian.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

RE: The War in avganistan

jimmoyer, I am sure that this life will never be perfect even though many strive every day towards perfection. But how not liking war makes me a hypocrite? Not wanting to see 19 year old sons die and come back in body bags makes me a contradiction? How am I a contradiction when in fact I do not do to others what I don’t want done to me? How dose that make a man a contradiction and a hypocrite?

 

[jimmoyer]

No man or woman is without contradiction or hypocritical
moral purity, my friend.

Doing nothing poses the same moral thicket of
dilemna as doing something poses.

For example:

Dafur. The act of doing nothing allows the carnage
to continue. It is what you wish. To do nothing.
You could infer that your passivity is abominable in
its myopic self-righteousness.

Yugoslavia.
That war began in 1990-1. The slaughter and ethnic
cleansing began first in Slovenia, then Croatia. No
intervention. In fact, the abomination here is that
Europe promised NEVER AGAIN. And here it is happening
in their own continental backyard. AGAIN.

It wasn't until 1998 Europe acted only because of
Tony Blair asking for years to do something. Clinton
had many state department resignations over his doing
nothing. Finally intervention stopped it, minimalized it.

To do nothing causes as much death if not more.

So I resent the false purity.

Hotel Rwanda has a place for you.

 

[Jersay]

Jersey. You're a communist? Are you being sarcastic?

Socrates, you're not worth punching a keyboard over. What a disgrace.

Retired Canadian soldier, what am I being sarcastic about.

I am a socialist, leaning to communist some times, as ITN claims, can't I be a soldier and worry about my comrades??

 

[Toro]

I personally like the Canadian Military to be a force of diplomatic achievement

You mean like Neville Chamberlain? That type of "diplomatic achievement"?

Too bad "diplomatic achievement" isn't always attainable.

The US asked for Osama from the Taliban. The Taliban said "no". That's why we're in Afghanistan.

 

[Curiosity]

Re: RE: The War in avganistan is about hypocrisy and deceit.

Johnny Utah, I would urge you not to attempt to question the judgement of any of the Administrators or Moderators on the open forum, you are only going to get yourself into trouble — send a private message to one of them it you would like to take issue with one or more of their decisions, in private.

Thanks, I sent a message to view my opinion, sorry for posting what I did but to me posting something like that on the day Four Canadian Soldiers died was over the line.

Johnny

I have your back - I agree and would repost your words which were removed. Never apologize for your feelings. If that happens here, we have become a group of melons playing computer games and exchanging jokes with each other.

This is life and death and there are no "pretty words" to dress the stuff in.

 

[Curiosity]

post deleted - it isn't worth the anger.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: The War in avganistan

Diplomacy can make the enemy stay at bay, brown noosing is the red blanket that gets the bulls coming your way.
Where do you want to be in front of the bull or behind?

As Clauswitz said "War is diplomacy by other means"

They tried diplomacy with the Taliban, they got nowhere.

That is why they invaded the place.

 

[jimmoyer]

Doing nothing poses the same moral thicket of
dilemna as doing something poses.

For example:

Dafur. The act of doing nothing allows the carnage
to continue. It is what you wish. To do nothing.
You could infer that your passivity is abominable in
its myopic self-righteousness.

Yugoslavia.
That war began in 1990-1. The slaughter and ethnic
cleansing began first in Slovenia, then Croatia. No
intervention. In fact, the abomination here is that
Europe promised NEVER AGAIN. And here it is happening
in their own continental backyard. AGAIN.

It wasn't until 1998 Europe acted only because of
Tony Blair asking for years to do something. Clinton
had many state department resignations over his doing
nothing. Finally intervention stopped it, minimalized it.

To do nothing causes as much death if not more.

So I resent the false purity.

Hotel Rwanda has a place for THOSE who think
doing nothing costs no lives.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

RE: The War in avganistan

Hey Retired Canadian soldier, even though you deeply believe that I am a disgrace because I don’t fight wars that bring nothing but distraction, I still have respect for a soldier. I feel sending my son to fight a domestic attack from a foreign enemy is justified. To send my son to fight in a faraway land is not what will insure peace here at home. Years ago it was necessary to go and fight wars in foreign soils.
Today things have changed so drastically that any one who thinks by going to Afghanistan and fight will change the anger that exists with the anti American Muslims they got another think coming. The anti west fanatics are many in the millions, dose Canada have millions of soldier to sacrifice so we can be good friend with Bush? American imperialism is what has brought this angry global mess, why is Canada bunched up with imperialism when in fact the American economic machine doesn’t give two shits about the Canadian economic well being? The soft wood lumber is the closest example which has been going on for years. The reason it has been going on for years is because the imperialistic attitude that has been the order of the day with the Bush economic thugs. The bombs will devastate Canadian cities when they start going off. To kill half of the world population in order to secure a better life for the killers is wrong. Democracy and Diplomacy are two inseparable brothers. Hypocrisy and self serving righteousness are brothers that will kill one another to take each others wealth.
Unfortunately we are in the killing stage my good Canadian Retired soldier.
Wars are about the sale of weapons and a strategic position and nothing else. If oil was not anywhere to be found in the Middle East the war would be at the place where oil existed. The moral of the story, money talks and bullshit walks.

 

[jimmoyer]

Our war in Afghanistan doesn't hope to change
the Taliban or al Qaeda or the opinion in the street.

It is there to offer the security of a soccer field
not being used for the weekly beheadings, and women
made more into chattel than they are now.

You see little difference? That's typical of outsider
snobbery.

Weekly beheadings sanctioned is a big difference.

And still there is a lot of sick notions regarding the
women and children and education there. But you
now have children congregating in a blown-up building
ecstatic to learn something, something that is too
blase and boring for our own comfortable white children.

Oh the warlords and the opium you say?

All or nothing, eh ?

Microwave generation wants the food all perfect
and NOW.

What sin are you absolved of when the Retreat you
order is done ?

 

[Socrates the Greek]

RE: The War in avganistan

Hey jim_moyer, when you take a look across the board to day as we speak on the surface of this planet there is approximately 60 different wars going on. The moral of the story is someone is out to insure that their way will prevail. The Super powers of the world are hypocrites at best, Ethiopia has for many years been fitting an internal war that will never stop, the US doesn’t give two shits about the killing of innocent people there. The war lords take in foreign aid and keep it for them self’s, where is the American machine along with the Canadian Machine to help this poor starving souls? The truth is, there in no oil in Ethiopia. The Kosovo experience took for ever for the Americans to get involved and clean up the mess there, millions of people had their life’s destroyed in former Yugoslavia. The examples are there which prove American Imperialism works only when there is self interest at the other end. If you want to defend the rights of innocent people start from areas where there is no oil to be found. Anything else is self-serving to boot.

 

[jimmoyer]

Overall your point is quite correct, Socrates, except
for one thing.

Don't look to the States to police the entire world.
If we did, we certainly would engender more hostility from you. Make up your mind on that score.


Your argument is very much like the Noble Causes
that press their case for funding against all Diseases.
You're a cad if you don't pony up.

If we prioritize an attack against one disease, we
are hypocritical for not keeping the same level of
attack ON ALL DISEASES at THE SAME TIME ???

This is a child's standard on hypocrisy.

You prioritize in your own world. So do others.

The rest of the world is even more hypocritical
in its smug comfort.


Was it not Europe's responsibility to make good
on their promise NEVER AGAIN especially with
the ethnic cleansing going on for 8 years in their
own continental backyard ?

They only got their act together once America
took the lead to stop it.

You want us to do the dirty work for you in the Sudan
and Ethiopia ???

Why don't other countries have the balls to take
the lead as they tut tut about American hypocritical
selectivity ?

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Re: RE: The War in avganistan is about hypocrisy and deceit.

Overall your point is quite correct, Socrates, except
for one thing.

Don't look to the States to police the entire world.
If we did, we certainly would engender more hostility from you. Make up your mind on that score.


Your argument is very much like the Noble Causes
that press their case for funding against all Diseases.
You're a cad if you don't pony up.
se, we
are hypocritical for not keeping the same level of
attack ON ALL DISEAS
If we prioritize an attack against one diseaES at THE SAME TIME ???

This is a child's standard on hypocrisy.

You prioritize in your own world. So do others.

The rest of the world is even more hypocritical
in its smug comfort.


Was it not Europe's responsibility to make good
on their promise NEVER AGAIN especially with
the ethnic cleansing going on for 8 years in their
own continental backyard ?

They only got their act together once America
took the lead to stop it.

You want us to do the dirty work for you in the Sudan
and Ethiopia ???

Why don't other countries have the balls to take
the lead as they tut tut about American hypocritical
selectivity ?

My great Canadian pal the only reason the Americans got off their ass and got involved in former Yugoslavia was because of the world opinion which criticised the Americans about acting only if the American interest was in jeopardy. And even there the Americans benefited in the sale of arms. Look we can dance around reality for so long but there come the time the song is over and to keep on dancing after the song is over is a sign of deafness.
If there was infinite oil deposits in Sudan and Ethiopia for sure my great Canadian pal it would have not been dirty work, it would have been protecting imperialistic interests.
And that way we see Hypocrisy born once again.

 

[jimmoyer]

You look at everything through the American Prism.

That Yugoslavia thing should have been handled
by the European powers.

That seems to miss your ken.

That's a more deadly angle than trying to spin
an accurative motive to America that fits your rigid narrative.

 

[zoofer]

Re: RE: The War in avganistan

Johnny Utah, my post is my respect for the dead shoulders of not only today, in the past and future; I mentioned here that the shoulders do not have to die. I respect democracy and killing on either side is the cost of war that no one can justify. “But to support 5 billion dollars wasted fighting the hills of Afghanistan at the loss of Canadian shoulders and tax payer money I am not going to waist my time to be some one I don’t want to be”.
To see Harper change the traditional lowering of the flag at a time of morning of the dead shoulders is not a move which represents respect. It is a personal ideologue which doesn’t see eye to eye with the general populous.
Socrates is not a bad guy, he hates war!

Rubbish.
You could not convince me in a 100 years you have any respect.
Or receive any.

 

[Johnny Utah]

The War in avganistan is about hypocrisy and deceit.

:roll: