The Viet Nam War by Ken Burns
- Thread starter Mowich
- Start date
It seems to me that the only thing that keeps American's together is their divisiveness. They were divided over the Civil War. Divided over Viet Nam and most certainly haven't found much common ground in their latest choice for President. Yet somehow they make it work. No one knows what this latest administration will deliver to them in the form of surprises but after what they have been through, I am sure just like all the other crises they've faced, this will weather this one too.
Yeah, like you'd turn down Liberty.
Yeah, like you'd turn down Liberty.
Woodrow Wilson started it for allowing the French to hold on to their Indo-Chinese Empire during the talks at Versailles.
That's what drew the Americans into their first "Vietnam" here in Upper Canada when they went to bat for their buddy Napoleon by opening up a second front against the British..
Look at all of the tired, hungry huddled masses that settled around its base. They'll never get rid of them.
At no point did he say ALL were involved in these atrocities. He stated that he was quoting allegations from 150 others during their meeting in Detroit and requested Congressional investigations as he and the Vets Against the War did not trust the president to do so. Congress believed him. This is why the vets said he was a valid spokesman for them.
And yes there were honorable American soldiers including three cousins of mine (one of whom was killed there) and several buddies that I grew up with (one of whom was also killed).
Funny that you got three greenies even though you are wrong.
As we have discussed on this forum previously, it was Republican Eisenhower who got the USA started in a combat role there:
https://thevietnamwar.info/us-presidents-during-the-vietnam-war/
Google Richard B Fitzgibbons, Jr. JFK wasn't president when his name was in the news.
All the same, gopher his statements were taken by the press and magnified in the public eye to the point that all vets were branded baby killers and the grief they and their families went through because of that is truly shameful. Kerry was already showing the political astuteness that would later propel him to the Senate.
I am sorry for your loss, gopher.
Have you ever been to the Viet Nam War Memorial, gopher?
I don't honestly recall anyone saying that all were baby killers. When my cousins returned home we had dinner and had church services celebrating their safe return.
Nope, never went to Washington DC but did attend college student meetings in NYC with vets on the GI Bill. All were treated with great respect by my classmates.
The indeterminate nature of the conflict ... the lack of conclusion and "closure" must be very frustrating for a Vietnam Vet. I suppose that the Afghan veterans must feel it, also. My father"s generation mostly carried the pride of successful conclusion despite the enormous bloodletting that they had witnessed.
Why did everyone call the American soldiers baby killers?
Everyone? We sure as hell didn't. Note how that is posed in the form of a leading question. But where is the proof that "everyone" did so? I was actively involved in the anti war effort, spoke to hundreds of people both pro and anti war in NYC and later in the Twin Cities. I have never encountered one person, not even one who ever called Vietnam vets baby killers.
Ask these people whether there is any truth to that myth that was made up by the pro war draft dodging right wing: Vietnam Veterans Against the War
Oh, by the way, as I have previously pointed out on this forum, J Edgar Hoover created a terrorist organization named COINTELPRO which spread terror and violence in order to discredit the peaceful anti war effort. If these is any truth to the myth that "all" vets were called 'baby killers' it is likely that these federally paid terrorists called them that, again in order to discredit peaceful anti war advocates.
Everyone? We sure as hell didn't. Note how that is posed in the form of a leading question. But where is the proof that "everyone" did so? I was actively involved in the anti war effort, spoke to hundreds of people both pro and anti war in NYC and later in the Twin Cities. I have never encountered one person, not even one who ever called Vietnam vets baby killers.
Ask these people whether there is any truth to that myth that was made up by the pro war draft dodging right wing: Vietnam Veterans Against the War
Oh, by the way, as I have previously pointed out on this forum, J Edgar Hoover created a terrorist organization named COINTELPRO which spread terror and violence in order to discredit the peaceful anti war effort. If these is any truth to the myth that "all" vets were called 'baby killers' it is likely that these federally paid terrorists called them that, again in order to discredit peaceful anti war advocates.
We read of the term in the papers, back then but I don't recall hearing anybody speak t. Granted, I was in another country but the Vietnam war affected us a great deal in Montreal,too.
From "The War Prayer" by Mark Twain
“You have heard your servant’s prayer — the uttered part of it. I am commissioned by God to put into words the other part of it — that part which the pastor — and also you in your hearts — fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard the words ‘Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!’ That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory — must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words.
Listen!“
Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth into battle — be Thou near them! With them — in spirit — we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it —
For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimmage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!
We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
“You have heard your servant’s prayer — the uttered part of it. I am commissioned by God to put into words the other part of it — that part which the pastor — and also you in your hearts — fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard the words ‘Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!’ That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory — must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words.
Listen!“
Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth into battle — be Thou near them! With them — in spirit — we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it —
For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimmage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!
We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
I remember at that time living in Belleville Ontario, there were a few Americans in town who were keeping their sons from facing the draft.
I can't say that I blame them.
I can't say that I blame them.
It means I hit the question mark key 2 times. What comes before the 1st on is the important part, sorry if that surprises you.
Can you put your mom on for a few minutes???
You post looks more like a answer than a question. Are you trying to confuse Walnut because you might as well give up as he has been there for some time now. I think he likes it there.
Q: How many Vietnam Vets does it take to change a light bulb?
A: You don't know? You don't know because YOU WEREN'T THERE, MAN!! YOU WEREN'T THERE!!!
A: You don't know? You don't know because YOU WEREN'T THERE, MAN!! YOU WEREN'T THERE!!!
"For those that claim that the Ken Burns Americentric documentary presented a "balanced" perspective on the Vietnam war:
“There is just one thing you need to know about Vietnam….The Vietnam Memorial is 175 yards long, if the Vietnamese constructed the same type of memorial it would be 9 MILES long.”
- Phillip Jones Griffiths (Vietnam war photographer)
American troops killed numbered just under 58,000 while the total number of Vietnamese casualties (both sides including civilians) has been estimated at between one and two MILLION.
"It’s time our nation found the courage to face those twenty (or fifty) walls of Vietnamese dead. It’s time we faced them with the same sorrow and same regret we reserve for our own wall of dead. Only after we do so can our nation stop glorifying war. Only after we do so can our nation fully heal."
- USAF Col William J. Astore - Ret
A nation built on war is doomed to repeat itself until it effects its own destruction.
“There is just one thing you need to know about Vietnam….The Vietnam Memorial is 175 yards long, if the Vietnamese constructed the same type of memorial it would be 9 MILES long.”
- Phillip Jones Griffiths (Vietnam war photographer)
American troops killed numbered just under 58,000 while the total number of Vietnamese casualties (both sides including civilians) has been estimated at between one and two MILLION.
"It’s time our nation found the courage to face those twenty (or fifty) walls of Vietnamese dead. It’s time we faced them with the same sorrow and same regret we reserve for our own wall of dead. Only after we do so can our nation stop glorifying war. Only after we do so can our nation fully heal."
- USAF Col William J. Astore - Ret
A nation built on war is doomed to repeat itself until it effects its own destruction.