The United States a Nation of Laws?

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Saint John, N.B.
A point most people miss when thety discuss the elimination of rights is thast there IS a legitimate process for doing so.

I use this as an argument with gun control advocates when they bring up the USA......."Fine. Amend the Constitution, THEN bring in gun control. Good luck with that."

The point being that the folks who wrote the Constitution did NOT cast it in stone.....in can be changed. It requires the approval of 2/3 of the state legislatures (34 states) and approval by both Houses of Congress (with a 2/3 majority, I believe) and the President's signature.........

I bring this up only to make the point that ANY violation of the Constitution is inexcuseable........the oft used sop of "necessity" is crap.....if it is so out of date, if change is so necessary, AMEND IT!

Good Luck with that.

BTW Mikey, a IPSC shooter! A disciple of Saint Jeff Cooper! Who would have thunk it!
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Curiosity

If the “tatters” came into being through the passionate debate of concepts and philosophies that contribute to the foundation upon which a nation builds its identity (assuming a constitution is a critical component of that foundation) then we should celebrate those “tatters”. Women’s rights, the rights of minorities, language rights, a governments systems of checks and balances even the construct of civil and criminal law that a society embraces are fundamentally and intimately bound to these precepts.

If the “tatters” came into being because statements or policies once enshrined as critically important to a people are changed with a view to withdrawing or “adversely” compromising the rights of some members of that society and these modifications and changes render the principles unworkable so the “tatters” signify unsuitability or inappropriateness then there is a need for even greater consideration and debate.

It’s as unrealistic to point to religious dogma from thousands of years ago as the guiding principles suitable in an age that has outgrown the parameters addressable through some ancient concept of the world. Policies that fail to address international carrier and transport rules, technology capable of altering reproductive and genetic process that weren’t even imagined a hundred years ago, synthetic materials and industrial processes employing atomic radiation, radio and television transmission and reception, the list of changes in the world that demand a review of our fundamental principles and ideas isn’t getting shorter its getting longer…..

A constitution isn’t a static mechanism, it must remain dynamic or it will fail to address inevitable changes that evolution brings.

In this era when it is possible for a single human being, equipped with a suitcase nuclear device or a bag of weaponized anthrax, or a gang of religious fanatics who regard their deaths in the commission of an act of justifiable (in their minds) mayhem, the laws rules and ideas of a time when people fought with sticks and stones are simply inadequate.

Change is inevitable and answering the demands that change presents is or at least should be of critical importance to every man woman and child.

Consider the enthusiasm that began in the United States many years ago for calling the challenges that faced various administrations “wars”. Wars on poverty wars on drugs wars on discrimination, the use of the term “war” lent urgency and implied that a preparedness to sacrifice in the name of that purpose was justifiable and called-for. How urgent the situation was or is and who exactly was expected to be doing the sacrificing are the mechanisms that a system of codified philosophies and law help to define…or at a minimum should be available to provide workable guidelines in the effort.

Today we have a world that calls the hunt for al-Qa'ida and Osam bin Laden a war. We are complacent to call the American invasion of Iraq a “war” when we all know after the fact that there was no urgency and there was no need for the deaths of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.

A person is now according to the American administration committing an act of “terrorism” and of “war” by resisting invasion and attempting to repel the invaders who are killing generations in the name of what? Of protecting some oil companies pipeline “right of way”??? For threatening the “mother of all wars” when the saber rattling begins???

No we are calling these people and their actions “war” and “terrorism” because that is the only way that the agendas of a very few manipulators at the top of an administration can prosecute an unjust and illegal invasion and ignore international law. Families wouldn’t be prepared to send their children to die in support an idea that stated… “We have to secure our future access to fossil fuels in a land that we don’t own and have no rights to which demands aerial bombardment using high explosives and incendiaries and roving teams of armed killers.”

“We have to kill every man woman and child that resists our cruise missiles and Abrams tanks attacks as we prosecute a war on the basis of wholly inaccurate and “doctored” intelligence and if we can’t kill them all then what we have to do is make sure the world understands that these people are all terrorists and evil to legitimize our aggression.”

The changes proposed to the American system of jurisprudence as it applies to the military is the leading edge of an agenda to re-write the systems of law and protocols in pursuit of protecting those guilty of committing atrocities in the name of a counterfeit war for the purposes of acquiring personal wealth and power, the current legislative body of the government of the United States.

Changes we can all only expect to be advanced as the costs of barbarism mount and an enthusiasm for abandoning freedom in the name of security becomes the strategy for engendering support for a misguided and corrupt government.


 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Colpy

I’ve been involved in IPSC since 1992 and thoroughly enjoy the competitions. I don’t quite understand why this comes as such a surprise to you.

My passion for freedom and justice as presented through contributions to this forum have been described here at Canadian Content as the ramblings of a “pacifist” a “liberal” and several other pejorative labels I’ve missed perhaps but that’s OK. From my perspective there’s an over-representation of dim-witted, ill-informed red-necked bigots far more interested in seeking affirmation of their prejudices than discussing the issues of the day here at Canadian Content.

But it takes all kinds to make a world.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Ontario
Responding to what you said above, I Think Not, Section 33 of the Constitution Act, 1982 (more intimately known as the notwithstanding clause) could, in fact, be used to legislate something to the effect of the piece of legislation now before the Congress of the United States of America.

Section 33 can override any fundamental right or freedom; the rights to life, liberty and security; the right to be free of unreasonable search or seizure; the right not to be arbitrarily imprisoned; the right to be informed of the charges against one's self and to have counsel; the writ of habeus corpus can be overridden; the right to be tried within a reasonable time limit; the right to be presumed innocent; the right not to be subjected to unusual or cruel punishments; the right of witnesses to not have their testimony used against them; the right to access a translater or interpreter in a court of law; and the right to be equal before the law.


Yes you are correct, but the "Notwithstanding Clause" like was inferred to by Mickey's remark about pencils, having erasers, can be used to remove such legislation as the illegitamacy of same sex marriages, if a Governement of the day were to make them none existant.

That clause is a double edged sword.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Minnesota: Gopher State
It's not just the liberal ACLU that opposes the overextension of Federal authority and loss of Constitutional rights. The conservative John Birch Society joins with them in this condemnation:

http://www.jbs.org/node/1442

Saving American Lives by Stripping Away our Freedoms

By David Eisenberg Published: 2006-10-18 15:43 Email this page | printer friendly version

ARTICLE SYNOPSIS:
"President Bush said he was saving lives with a stroke of his pen," reported Time magazine. The legislation protects CIA agents who employ "harsh methods" to force alleged terrorists to talk.
Follow this link to the source article: "Bush Signs Reworked Anti-Terror Bill"
COMMENTARY:
The bill signed by President Bush "allows the government to seize individuals on American soil and detain them indefinitely with no opportunity to challenge their detention in court", said Sen. Russ Feingold of Wisconsin. "And the new law would permit an individual to be convicted on the basis of coerced testimony and even allow someone convicted under these rules to be put to death." In short, the bill opens the gates for any American to be jailed at whim and denied their rights to due process, habeas corpus and a trial by jury of their peers.
The legislation states that the president can "interpret the meaning and application" of international standards for prisoner treatment. This provision allows him to authorize "aggressive interrogation methods that might otherwise be seen as illegal by international courts," noted the article.
Criticizing Democrats who voted against the law (which is called the Military Commissions Act of 2006) during campaign appearances around the country, Bush claims that voting against the bill is tantamount to not protecting the country from more terrorist attacks.
Absent from any discussion is who is going to protect Americans from the Executive branch, whether headed by President Bush or any other future president who continues to amass power in the White House.
Besides that, this question is worth entertaining as well: If Bush is protecting the American people by taking away our freedoms, then what are we supposed to be fighting for in Iraq?
http://www.jbs.org/modules/bio/bio_image.php?image=/files/images/bio/Eisenberg.jpgDavid Eisenberg

David Eisenberg is a member of the JBS Council.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
Yeah

Strangely enough, the only real printed protest I read against the Patriot Act way back when was printed in "Guns and Ammo" magazine.

Love of Liberty is NOT necessarily restricted to one side of the political spectrum.....
 

Audrey

New Member
Oct 19, 2006
1
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Judicial Hellholes and their findings

Judicial Hell holes are the most sought after places of the litigation tourists. Such places have a disproportionate impact on the civil litigation. These tourists approach such places, guided by the personal injury lawyers, in search of a positive outcome like an excessive verdict or settlement, a favorable precedent, or both.

In the year 2005, six Judicial Hell holes have been identified. These being Rio Grande Valley and Gulf Coast, Texas; Cook County, Illinois; West Virginia; Madison County, Illinois; St. Clair County, Illinois; and South Florida. There have been few which are on the watch list for the possibility of becoming Judicial Hellholes in near future. These are mainly due to the negative developments taking place in the litigation environment of these areas. Such areas include California; Eastern Kentucky; Eastern Alabama; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; New Mexico; Delaware; Oklahoma; Orleans Parish, Louisiana; and Washington, D.C.

The Judicial Hell Hole designation is attributed to a number of factors. These include prevalence of forum shopping, the willingness of courts to expand liability through novel legal theories, discovery abuse, improper certification of class actions, the proliferation of junk science, strong alliances between plaintiffs' lawyers, judges and attorneys general, and the uneven application of evidentiary rules. Abusing consumer protection acts also have led to a flood of litigation in certain jurisdictions. Such Judicial Hellholes are a shame for the entire Judiciary System and can totally destabilize the economy.

Texans for Lawsuit Reforms have been active in transforming such Judicial Hellholes through reforms which make the judicial system, equally fair and balanced to everyone in the society. Founded by Mr. Dick Weekley, the organization’s objective is to restore litigation to its traditional and appropriate role in our society.

For more info, login to
www.pacificresearch.org/press/clip/2006/clip-05-24-06tlr.html
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Minnesota: Gopher State
I am a person that has never owned a gun and personally doesn't want to have anything to do with them. But I also acknowledge the necessity of a population to be armed, particularly when we are governed by people that wish to deprive us of our rights.


During the Katrina crisis, innocent civilians were under attack from roving gangsters. They tried to arm themselves against the hoodlums but the government used the evil Black Watch group to disarm those civilians. So what's the use of having "rights" on paper if they are not worth anything?