The 'two founding races', the 'four founding churches', and our place in Canada

gerryh

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For those who deny the residential school system, read up on Kevin Annett:

Hidden from History: The Canadian Holocaust

He is an ex-minister of the United Church who was defrocked when he started to expose more recent crimes of the United Church and eventually even got kicked out of the Church. But make no mistake about it, he's just as critical of all of the four founding churches and the government of Canada.


a lot of hearsay, whining, and paranoia. I see he screwed up 2 marriages and by 2005 the ndn's didn't even want him on their side.
 

captain morgan

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Hmmm... I guess genocide was a small price to pay for that privilege. Am I supposed to say 'Amen' to that?

You sound like a holocaust denier. A hell of a lot of indigenous people were killed. Heck, there were still Jews left in Germany after WWII. Does that mean the Nazi holocaust never occurred?

Don't confuse the four founding churches with all religions. IN fact, many Christian churches never participated in the residential school system. You don't even have to look outside the Christian Faith to find religious communities that did not participate.

And even within the four founding churches, many sincere members have likely never even heard of the residential school system, very much like many German officers after WWII were themselves shocked to learn of the Nazi death camps.

This is not about individuals, but about the four founding churches at the institutional level. If they have money for expensive law suits, then they have money to help rebuild indigenous cultures, and actually put the teachings of the Gospel into practice?


If it's so myopic, then certainly you could come up with a brilliant defence of holding on to privileges gained by colonialism and attempted genocide, no?

What a joke.... No form of any intelligent rebuttal so all that's left is to accuse me being a Nazi and Holocaust denier.

You really are a loser
 

gerryh

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No contradiction at all. You're confusing the Gospels with the four founding churches. Big difference. The reason I quoted the Gospels was precisely our of respect for the Gospels so as to show that they are not to blame for this attempted cultural genocide.

and here is where you blame the Gospels.


Also, it's odd within the context of this thread when one considers the role the four churches played in the residential school system as part of a systematic process of attempted cultural genocide, all in the name of the said Gospels.
 

Machjo

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gerryh

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Then forget him.

Oh? He's no longer good enough for you to hang your hat on? Did you not properly vet him before deciding to use him as your example?

Heck, Gerryh, you can even hear Harper's voice agreeing with me on this one, bearing in mind of course that there has been no follow up since his apology, but still.


That's right, he has done NOTHING since the apology. It was hollow, meant nothing. It was done in hopes of shutting the complainers up and that was all.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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What will it take?

I'm speaking of the U.S., not Canada. I have no say in how you solve your problems, nor want any. Just friendly interest and good wishes.

Speaking for myself alone, and not for any nation, tribe, band, or organisation, what it will take is full legal equality and non-discrimination.

Including no "favourable" discrimination.

We were horribly abused. Tough ****. Many have been. We were slaughtered in our millions. Tough ****. Many have been. Our cultures and ways were overwhelmed and debased. Tough ****. Many have been.

The "sovereign" reservations, the special programs, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Indian Health Service, the Indian Gaming Act, &c. all serve only to set us apart. Most programs are ridiculously underfunded, and eligibility for them excludes us from eligibility for equivalent programs for Shemanese that are much better funded.

Do away with the reservations. Break 'em up and allocate the land, once and for all. Do away with all Indian programs. Do away with the sick dependency of Indians on the charity of the Shemanese.

Then we will either die off, or get a grip, get education, get jobs, build wealth and power. Then, if we want, we can take over a county and pass Indian-friendly county ordinances (within the confines of state law). Maybe we can even take over a state and pass Indian-friendly state laws (within the confines of the Constitution and Federal laws). Then we'll be Indian because we choose to be, not because the Shemanese have decided (again!) "what's good for us."
 

gerryh

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What I have said in the past is, buy out ALL the treaties. Those that have not been settled, lump sum payment. No more payments till the sun stops rising.

For those that want to be/stay independent nations and not join Canada, fine, but when they fail Canada has the option of taking over.... we hold the "option" on the land.
 

Machjo

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What I have said in the past is, buy out ALL the treaties. Those that have not been settled, lump sum payment. No more payments till the sun stops rising.

For those that want to be/stay independent nations and not join Canada, fine, but when they fail Canada has the option of taking over.... we hold the "option" on the land.

Blessed are the poor in spirit.
 

Machjo

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Easier said than done. Normally to buy out a contract, both parties have to agree to it. What you're suggesting is the same attitude as those who founded the residential schools: we'll decide the amount and the terms and conditions and they'll take it or else. Amen.
 

gerryh

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Easier said than done. Normally to buy out a contract, both parties have to agree to it. What you're suggesting is the same attitude as those who founded the residential schools: we'll decide the amount and the terms and conditions and they'll take it or else. Amen.


Like I said, I know, you prefer the status quo where they are kept down....... keep em down and dirty on the reserve.
 

Machjo

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Like I said, I know, you prefer the status quo where they are kept down....... keep em down and dirty on the reserve.

Not at all. If they want to be bought out, they would have made an offer long ago, and had they made an offer, I'd say accept it. However, if you read the document titled Citizens Plus (aka the Red Paper), published in 1969 by the Indian Association of Alberta (predecessor of the Assembly of Frist Nations) in response to the Chretien White Paper at the height of the residential school era, you'll see that they do not want forced assimilation. They want us to respect the treaties we'd signed in good faith. You know though, if we did offer a new constitution based on just relations between our nations, they probably would happily accept integration, bearing in mind it would involve integration into a new Canada into which we'd all have to integrate into since it would no longer be based on stuff like this:

'We should point out here that the Commission will not examine cultures the question of the Indians and the Eskimos . Our terms of reference contain no allusion to Canada's native populations. They speak of "two founding races," namely Canadians of British and French origin, and "other ethnic groups," but mention neither the Indians nor the Eskimos. Since it is obvious that these two groups do not form part of the "founding races," as the phrase is used in the terms of reference, it would logically be necessary to include them under the heading "other ethnic groups ." Yet it is clear that the term "other ethnic groups" means those peoples of diverse origins who came to Canada during or after the founding of the Canadian state and that it does not include the first inhabitants of this country.'
 

gerryh

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You show me ONE First Nation that is doing well and standing on their own feet based on their treaties with whitey only. Show me one where the treaty helps in any way.
 

captain morgan

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Ya, I know. You prefer the status quo where they are kept down.

Of course he does.. The Machjo's of the world absolutely rely on pretending that they are the White Knight riding to the rescue of some damsel in distress.

It's entirely outside his cognitive abilities that these peoples have any self-worth, perseverance or capability of their own.

Easier said than done. Normally to buy out a contract, both parties have to agree to it. What you're suggesting is the same attitude as those who founded the residential schools: we'll decide the amount and the terms and conditions and they'll take it or else. Amen.

You fool!.. Read the agreement(s). They are crappy, but are agreements/contracts all the same.

Careful what you wish for.. You'll find that your pie-in-the-sky ideals don't hold up to reality
 

Machjo

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You show me ONE First Nation that is doing well and standing on their own feet based on their treaties with whitey only. Show me one where the treaty helps in any way.

Of course there aren't many, if any, because our laws are stacked in our favour. Therefore those who assimilate benefit, those who wish to maintain their traditions suffer. It's a kind of blackmail, essentially.

I figure imported diseases killed more than guns or lousy treatment ever did

Knowingly tainted blankets being given as gifts didn't help either.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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Wow....... You really don't have a clue about your subject matter.

West Bank First Nations.
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