The Power of Hatred

I think not

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Hard pounding, gentlemen; but we will see who can pound the longest. -The Duke of Wellington, at Waterloo.

The Islamoterrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan have shown a resilience that some have found surprising.

They have learned fast and learned much - about how to build more effective roadside bombs, for instance, and about the futility of engaging American forces directly in firefights.

They have shown an ugly ruthlessness about spilling Muslim blood.

They have demonstrated an extraordinary ability or extraordinary luck in preserving their leadership, sometimes with hairbreadth escapes.

And, although they may be scraping a barrel or two while husbanding their "finest" for later operations, they have thus far produced enough recruits (some with their hands taped to steering wheels) to continue their fight despite heavy losses.

Give them credit where credit is due. And credit them, too, for shedding light on a dark reality many Americans would prefer to ignore - the power of hatred.

It is fashionable to praise the power of an uplifting idea, but it makes us uncomfortable to admit the power of festering hatred. Yet it is pure hatred that is abroad and alive in the bomb-laden cars that ply the streets and roads of Iraq and in the calculated fury that leaves children dismembered in a market place and young policemen executed with their hands tied behind their backs.

All the efforts to comb the Koran and extol the virtues and ideals of "mainstream" Islam will not camouflage nor expiate the murderous hatred of the Islamofanatics at work in Iraq and around the globe.

Explore the radical Islamic websites. Consider their pronouncements - all they have said and written. There are no ideals there, few ideas, only impositions.

The old Saddamists, now in uneasy ad hoc alliance with the stone terrorists, don't really count. They may mouth some of the jihadist jargon and fight dirty, but they merely want a return to the grand political imposition that was Saddam's regime.

Their "vision," of a return to air-conditioned villas, rape rooms, big cars and Baghdad's best tables, will never be. They are doomed - either at the hands of coalition forces or at the hands of the true Islamofanatics - those who are at the implacable heart of the "resistance" in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The real faith of the Islamofanatics is a faith in fear. Since they have no transcending ideas or ideals, they are determined not only to kill the infidel "crusaders," but to frighten into silence or submission on pain of death those millions of Muslims and nominal Muslims who merely seek to live a quiet life and dare to believe that some freedom and democracy might not be such a bad proposition.

These hate-filled men seek to impose a way of life in which there is not the slightest element of liberty or individuality. There is only hatred.

Hatred for any who are not of the narrowly defined faith.

Hatred for any doctrine, any idea that might allow men and women to seek their own way or just be left alone.

And most of all, hatred for the world itself as it is presently constituted.

Consider these words, written by one of the apostles of Islamic hatred, the Iranian Ayatollah Muhammad Baqer al-Sadr, back in 1980:

"The world as it is today is how others shaped it. We have two choices: either to accept it with submission, which means letting Islam die, or to destroy it, so that we can construct the world as Islam requires."

As this struggle continues, the ragged gaggle of mere thugs, opportunists and murderous nuts who move within the ambit of the Islamofanatics will be roughly sorted out leaving only the hard core. These are the ones who want "the world as Islam requires."

Their Islam "requires" submission or death, conversion or extermination.

This is the terrorism of the terrorized - of minds frightened into a deadly madness by a world with competing cultures and ideas and daunting possibilities of departure from dogma.

The considerable cultural and scientific accomplishments of the civilization that evolved from Islam mean little to the fanatics. They wish to return to a "clean" Islam in a distant past, or rather, in their ill-formed imagination of the past.

The rising numbers of foreign fighters who have made their way to Iraq are not fighting "for Iraq" They are there to kill "infidels" and those Muslims who are worse than infidels for their apostasy or indifference. They are there to continue the task they feel was so gloriously joined by the murderers who flew those planes into the World Trade Center at the outset of this long, bloody struggle.

Those fatuous lawmakers who float talk of "timetables" and gibber about "quagmires" and think we can simply "come home" from this fight, are guilty at the least of a monstrous ignorance.

We are taking a hard pounding, but we have taken harder. Our troops have the stomach to take it and pound back, but if they sense that we back home have lost our nerve then the fight is lost. The majority of us, who have had to make little or no sacrifice in this war, should at the least be signaling by the millions this July 4th that we not only support our military, but also the winning of this fight.

Somehow we must make it clear - to our troops, to our lawmakers, to our president - that we have the mettle and the patience for this; that we are prepared to sacrifice and fight, not merely "for democracy," but against implacable hatred - a hatred impervious to council, to appeal, even to weariness; an exterminating hatred that must itself be exterminated.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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That hatred has deep roots, ITN. I doubt there are many in the west who can fully comprehend it, but it didn't come from nowhere. It is a reaction to history.

You are not going to win until you take an honest look at history, at least try to empathize with the people you fighting against, and at least try to keep history from repeating.
 

Said1

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Apr 18, 2005
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I think not said:
Well there is nothing wrong with looking at another point of view. How far back in history by the way?

1529, the Seige of Vienna?

or

1796 - Napoleon arrives in Egypt?
 

Ocean Breeze

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It might be an idea to examine "hatred" for what it is......and what it stems from. "hatred" works both ways. Cause and effect. What has caused the hatred to run so deep that so many are prepared to do such dastardly /desperate acts now.??? IS it "hatred" that is the motivation behind these acts.???

One could ask: Why did the USG "hate" Iraq /SH so much as to attack it militarily and ergo cause more anger and hatred??

seems easy to blame these desperados in Iraq now...... and criticize them.......without acknowledging /taking responsibility for invading and causing the anger there now. Cause and effect.

the dynamics of this are a lot more complicated , then the simplistic crap the population gets fed via the media.

Isn't "Hatred" a componant of prejudice too??? Hatred is a powerful emotion and the cause of much destruction. Isn't anger a big componant of "hatred" too.
 

Jay

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Jan 7, 2005
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Said1 said:
I think not said:
Well there is nothing wrong with looking at another point of view. How far back in history by the way?

1529, the Seige of Vienna?

or

1796 - Napoleon arrives in Egypt?


Think Crusades.
 

I think not

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Ocean Breeze said:
It might be an idea to examine "hatred" for what it is......and what it stems from. "hatred" works both ways. Cause and effect. What has caused the hatred to run so deep that so many are prepared to do such dastardly /desperate acts now.??? IS it "hatred" that is the motivation behind these acts.???

One could ask: Why did the USG "hate" Iraq /SH so much as to attack it militarily and ergo cause more anger and hatred??

seems easy to blame these desperados in Iraq now...... and criticize them.......without acknowledging /taking responsibility for invading and causing the anger there now. Cause and effect.

the dynamics of this are a lot more complicated , then the simplistic crap the population gets fed via the media.

Isn't "Hatred" a componant of prejudice too??? Hatred is a powerful emotion and the cause of much destruction. Isn't anger a big componant of "hatred" too.

They have shown an ugly ruthlessness about spilling Muslim blood.

And this is related how?
 

Ocean Breeze

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These hate-filled men seek to impose a way of life in which there is not the slightest element of liberty or individuality. There is only hatred.

that is painting it with very broad strokes.....and calls for conclusions that might not be accurate at all.

ANYONE seeking to IMPOSE a way of life on ANYONE else has hidden motives. .....and has NO RIGHT to do so.
 

gopher

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"Islamofascists" should not be credited for gaining in power and influence in Iraq.

The proper credit belongs to hatemongering imperialistic terrorist Bush :evil: for imposing al-Qaeda operatives Barzani, Talebani, and Jafiri into power in Baghdad. Bush :evil: is the best friend al-Qaeda and international terrorism has ever had. The record could not be more clear on that.
 

Ocean Breeze

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gopher said:
"Islamofascists" should not be credited for gaining in power and influence in Iraq.

The proper credit belongs to hatemongering imperialistic terrorist Bush :evil: for imposing al-Qaeda operatives Barzani, Talebani, and Jafiri into power in Baghdad. Bush :evil: is the best friend al-Qaeda and international terrorism has ever had. The record could not be more clear on that.

a truism. It was the warmongering ( "hate" filled??) bush regime that created the atmosphere for this to be taking place. It has compounded any problem that existed in Iraq under SH. Seems the dynamics involved two pathological groups. The SH group and the bush group. Both are "evil" in their own way......but offer different "Justifications" /rationalizations/spin / for their actions.
 

manda

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ITN...I have to wonder if you have lost friend or family in either Iraq or Afghanistan...I honestly believe you haven't. How else would you say that the troops must be patient and wait it out? How would you feel if you had a son, brothers or other family members there and one of them was killed in the line of duty? Be patient? I think not, you would be demanding that the rest of your family be sent home where they can be safe. There is only so much that one is willing to sacrifice for their country. I agree that this hatred must be addressed and exteminated, but I feel that there are better ways to accomplish it than sending men into a blood bath without proper armour or training and hoping that they survive. It may be juvenile, but I suggest that you find and read "Everything I need to know, I learned in Kindergarten". There are valuable lessons contained within...if you are willing to see them
 

Ocean Breeze

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I think not said:
Ocean Breeze said:
They have shown an ugly ruthlessness about spilling Muslim blood.


"they " are not the only ones. this has taken on a cycle /life of its own now.

And THAT, doesn't make it right now does it?

the question of "right" no longer exists. It is the process /dynamic /cycle that has evolved that must be addressed now.
 

I think not

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Re: RE: The Power of Hatred

manda said:
ITN...I have to wonder if you have lost friend or family in either Iraq or Afghanistan...I honestly believe you haven't. How else would you say that the troops must be patient and wait it out? How would you feel if you had a son, brothers or other family members there and one of them was killed in the line of duty? Be patient? I think not, you would be demanding that the rest of your family be sent home where they can be safe. There is only so much that one is willing to sacrifice for their country. I agree that this hatred must be addressed and exteminated, but I feel that there are better ways to accomplish it than sending men into a blood bath without proper armour or training and hoping that they survive. It may be juvenile, but I suggest that you find and read "Everything I need to know, I learned in Kindergarten". There are valuable lessons contained within...if you are willing to see them

First of all, that is not my article, and just because I am posting it doesn't mean I agree with it either. We can still post different views last time I checked. Nodding yes to all posts is getting boring, to me anyway.

And for your FYI, I lost a friend on September 11th. And I don't believe they should come home until the countries are stable again. And I also believe terrorists killing Iraqi citizens is a point that is always missed. They are no angels. They are ruthless killers that have no value on life, not even their own.
 

I think not

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Ocean Breeze said:
I think not said:
Ocean Breeze said:
They have shown an ugly ruthlessness about spilling Muslim blood.


"they " are not the only ones. this has taken on a cycle /life of its own now.

And THAT, doesn't make it right now does it?

the question of "right" no longer exists. It is the process /dynamic /cycle that has evolved that must be addressed now.

That cycle/process/dynamic can end if they stopped blowing up their fellow citizens and muslims.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Re: RE: The Power of Hatred

manda said:
ITN...I have to wonder if you have lost friend or family in either Iraq or Afghanistan...I honestly believe you haven't. How else would you say that the troops must be patient and wait it out? How would you feel if you had a son, brothers or other family members there and one of them was killed in the line of duty? Be patient? I think not, you would be demanding that the rest of your family be sent home where they can be safe. There is only so much that one is willing to sacrifice for their country. I agree that this hatred must be addressed and exteminated, but I feel that there are better ways to accomplish it than sending men into a blood bath without proper armour or training and hoping that they survive. It may be juvenile, but I suggest that you find and read "Everything I need to know, I learned in Kindergarten". There are valuable lessons contained within...if you are willing to see them

good post. bravo.

"hatred" is bred by many things. It is part of the human equation......if allowed to fester and grow. It is more than about just the troops loosing their lives and limbs.......it is about the Iraqis who were so aggressively invaded militarily , by choice. They had no choice in this, they were powerless.......and it is powerlessness that yields anger......which in turn fosters hatred too.

Seems very few human lessons were learned in the US as a result of 9-11. what it feels like to be attacked , and the emotions this brings forth. Imagine how the Iraqis must have felt.......KNOWING their country was going to be attacked. Hearing all those promises of "freedom" etc......while having to cope with daily deaths and destruction. Wonder how they feel about the lies that were told in order to invade??? How would any nation feel??
 

Ocean Breeze

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I think not said:
Ocean Breeze said:
I think not said:
Ocean Breeze said:
They have shown an ugly ruthlessness about spilling Muslim blood.


"they " are not the only ones. this has taken on a cycle /life of its own now.

And THAT, doesn't make it right now does it?

the question of "right" no longer exists. It is the process /dynamic /cycle that has evolved that must be addressed now.

That cycle/process/dynamic can end if they stopped blowing up their fellow citizens and muslims.


seems this misses a crucial point. If one wants the cycle of violence to stop........it starts with not "them" , but "us". It is easy to project the problem onto others without factoring in the fact that one is a big part of the issue.

hypothetically: IF the violence would end. ( from their end) what would happen??? Would the US go home?? Would the US stop building it military bases ??? Would the contracts (US) in place now.......be aborted??? Would Iraq be free of the US and independant again???
 

I think not

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Ocean Breeze said:
seems this misses a crucial point. If one wants the cycle of violence to stop........it starts with not "them" , but "us". It is easy to project the problem onto others without factoring in the fact that one is a big part of the issue.

hypothetically: IF the violence would end. ( from their end) what would happen??? Would the US go home?? YES Would the US stop building it military bases ??? NO Would the contracts (US) in place now.......be aborted??? NO Would Iraq be free of the US and independant again??? YES