The Official Canadian Electoral Reform Thread

[Mowich]

Canadabuster ‏@Canadabuster

Watch as Trudeau is reduced to a stuttering mess after Mulcair grills him on #ERRE #cdnpoli

https://twitter.com/Canadabuster/status/806584470392475648

He finally decides to turn up for question period and this is what we get..........uh, er, huh, blah, blah, blah.............no wonder he ducks out as often as he can. Sheesh.

 

[Bar Sinister]

But some more than others such as Trudeau compared to Harper.

Actually you've got it backwards. Harper's record deficit of over $61 billion in 2009-2010 is unrivaled by any government. The projected deficit of $34 billion for 2016 is small by comparison.

 

[Mowich]

Globe editorial: Take The Globe’s electoral-reform survey! Welcome to MyDemocracy.con

MyDemocracy.con is an innovative way to take part in the conversation on electoral reform that you didn’t know you were having. By answering a few questions, you can draw a picture of your democratic values based on a list of false equivalencies, fake alternatives and malevolent subliminal messages. You can share your results with friends, who will think you were an idiot for having take part in such a facile exercise.

As you answer the questions, remember that there are no wrong answers, because we don’t care what you say. This is a different way of consulting Canadians – in the sense that we’re not actually consulting anyone. We’re just collecting data on our imposed preferences and sorting it by your demographic profile for unclear purposes. Thank you for participating.

Note: If you are under 16, don’t worry – just pretend you are over 16. Be a 89-year-old man with a PhD who makes between $500,000-$999,999 a year as a stay-at-home parent, for all we care.

(a selection of the questions)

START

When Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in his victory speech last year that the election he had just won would be the last under the first-past-the-post system, did you:

a) Wonder what the hell first-past-the-post is?
b) Cheer wildly knowing that Mr. Trudeau had just given himself an absolute mandate to change a fundamental aspect of our democracy based on election results he himself believes to be illegitimate?
c) See anything weird about that at all?

Please select the answer that most reflects your feelings about the following statement: Justin Trudeau only supported electoral reform in order to steal votes from the NDP in the 2015 election.

Hell yes!
And?
Now I get it.


Please select the answer that most reflects your feelings about the following statement: Proportional representation will lead to all kinds of extremist parties in Parliament (think: Nazis!) so let’s just not go there, all right?

Since you put it like that...
Neutral
That seems like a suggestive statement to make in a survey that is supposed to consult Canadians in a neutral fashion and not lead them to make conclusions about one electoral system versus another.

Which would you prefer: A government where one daring, inclusive party led by the hunky scion of a famous political family can make brilliant, groundbreaking decisions on its own OR Are you really going to make us keep that stupid promise about electoral reform and ruin everything? On second thought, don’t answer that.

Which would you prefer: A) One party governs and is solely accountable for policy outcomes OR B) The current system where one party governs and everything is the fault of the previous government, unforeseeable economic headwinds and the media?

You’re joking, right?
Neutral
I’ll take A and settle for B. Again

Please complete the following sentence: Eligible voters who do not vote in elections should be

Expected
Neutralized
Forced to attend a three-day lecture by Democratic Institutions Minister Maryam Monsef on the impact of the Gallagher Index on federal election results from 1867-2015. In Hull.


CONGRATULATIONS! You have now completed the survey.

Your views most align with: Confused Canadians

Confused Canadians are people who are aware there are other voting systems available but are happy with Canada’s and have never been presented with a compelling reason why it suddenly needs to be changed. They do believe that voting is important and would like to see higher turnouts, but don’t want to implement a wholesale change that might bring its own problems.

Confused Canadians are also skeptical about Prime Minister Trudeau’s motives and wonder why he got himself in this situation in the first place. And they don’t understand what compelled him to give an outgunned rookie minister the task of stickhandling epochal reform through Parliament.

Confused Canadians are confused.

Globe editorial: Take The Globe’s electoral-reform survey! Welcome to MyDemocracy.con - The Globe and Mail

 

[JLM]

Globe editorial: Take The Globe’s electoral-reform survey! Welcome to MyDemocracy.con

MyDemocracy.con is an innovative way to take part in the conversation on electoral reform that you didn’t know you were having. By answering a few questions, you can draw a picture of your democratic values based on a list of false equivalencies, fake alternatives and malevolent subliminal messages. You can share your results with friends, who will think you were an idiot for having take part in such a facile exercise.

As you answer the questions, remember that there are no wrong answers, because we don’t care what you say. This is a different way of consulting Canadians – in the sense that we’re not actually consulting anyone. We’re just collecting data on our imposed preferences and sorting it by your demographic profile for unclear purposes. Thank you for participating.

Note: If you are under 16, don’t worry – just pretend you are over 16. Be a 89-year-old man with a PhD who makes between $500,000-$999,999 a year as a stay-at-home parent, for all we care.

(a selection of the questions)

START

When Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in his victory speech last year that the election he had just won would be the last under the first-past-the-post system, did you:

a) Wonder what the hell first-past-the-post is?
b) Cheer wildly knowing that Mr. Trudeau had just given himself an absolute mandate to change a fundamental aspect of our democracy based on election results he himself believes to be illegitimate?
c) See anything weird about that at all?

Please select the answer that most reflects your feelings about the following statement: Justin Trudeau only supported electoral reform in order to steal votes from the NDP in the 2015 election.

Hell yes!
And?
Now I get it.


Please select the answer that most reflects your feelings about the following statement: Proportional representation will lead to all kinds of extremist parties in Parliament (think: Nazis!) so let’s just not go there, all right?

Since you put it like that...
Neutral
That seems like a suggestive statement to make in a survey that is supposed to consult Canadians in a neutral fashion and not lead them to make conclusions about one electoral system versus another.

Which would you prefer: A government where one daring, inclusive party led by the hunky scion of a famous political family can make brilliant, groundbreaking decisions on its own OR Are you really going to make us keep that stupid promise about electoral reform and ruin everything? On second thought, don’t answer that.

Which would you prefer: A) One party governs and is solely accountable for policy outcomes OR B) The current system where one party governs and everything is the fault of the previous government, unforeseeable economic headwinds and the media?

You’re joking, right?
Neutral
I’ll take A and settle for B. Again

Please complete the following sentence: Eligible voters who do not vote in elections should be

Expected
Neutralized
Forced to attend a three-day lecture by Democratic Institutions Minister Maryam Monsef on the impact of the Gallagher Index on federal election results from 1867-2015. In Hull.


CONGRATULATIONS! You have now completed the survey.

Your views most align with: Confused Canadians

Confused Canadians are people who are aware there are other voting systems available but are happy with Canada’s and have never been presented with a compelling reason why it suddenly needs to be changed. They do believe that voting is important and would like to see higher turnouts, but don’t want to implement a wholesale change that might bring its own problems.

Confused Canadians are also skeptical about Prime Minister Trudeau’s motives and wonder why he got himself in this situation in the first place. And they don’t understand what compelled him to give an outgunned rookie minister the task of stickhandling epochal reform through Parliament.

Confused Canadians are confused.

Globe editorial: Take The Globe’s electoral-reform survey! Welcome to MyDemocracy.con - The Globe and Mail

One of the stupidest things I saw was a suggestion that everyone should be required to vote or be punished! How does that fit in with a democracy. How do you elect the best people if the votes being counted are not based on any knowledge of the matter? Democracy (I thought) was supposed to be about choices and freedoms, so how does forcing people to vote fit in with that philosophy?

 

[tay]

 

[Mowich]

Don Martin of CTV's Power Play has a segment called 'The Last Word' wherein he voices his opinion on various issues. Today he talked about the death electoral reform. I decided to excerpt a couple of his comments and post them here as I know many of my fellow forum members will find them of interest.

"This week's release of a much ridiculed public opinion survey coupled with post card responses and the uncertain consensus of summer consultation blitz create a paint by numbers portrait of an escape hatch for the PM. Layer after layer of contradictory opinions, uncertain directions for change and partisan motivations behind each alternative, give Mr Trudeau all the cover he needs to break his vow.

That's why in the next week or two, probably late on a Friday, the government will deliver last rites to electoral reform."

~~~~~~~~~
​

"But what Canadians said most clearly in all the noise is that the current system was flawed but not fatal to a fair and functional democracy.

And so, thousands of hours of listening, surveying, testifying, travelling, and report writing are about to be shelved under dust That's demoralizing for the participants but surely they knew they were pawns in a liberal government scheme to kill their promise through excessive consultations. The government set out to create confusion over consensus succeeded brilliantly in their mission and will soon deliver a compelling rationale for sheepishly breaking their promise.

The public they'll say, made them do it."

Full comments available here: Power Play: The Last Word | CTV News

Could not have put it better myself.

 

[Curious Cdn]

First Passed the Post is the worst method of counting votes, ever ... except for all of the other methods.

 

[Mowich]

First Passed the Post is the worst method of counting votes, ever ... except for all of the other methods.

As Don also mentioned in his comments, only 4 out of 10 people voted for the current government and it was still enough to give them a majority. I agree that the current systems has it flaws and that Canadians when presented with a coherent plan to change it might possibly be open to the idea. Justin never intended to change our system of voting. It was a comment thoughtlessly thrown out in a campaign that at the time, he didn't expect to win. Once in power, he did all he could to make sure that nothing would change beginning with his appointment of a flighty neophyte to handle the portfolio who subsequently proved herself incapable of dealing with the truth of the situation - that Canadians were not all that het up about electoral reform and most especially not as presented to us by a government whose agenda was crystal clear.

So far, I see a lot of time and money being spent on committee after committee studying issue after issue but little if any real action. Having lived through previous liberal governments, I am in no way surprised to find that this one is no different then previous incarnations.

 

[JLM]

First Passed the Post is the worst method of counting votes, ever ... except for all of the other methods.

Now you are finally talking some sense!

 

[tay]

Trudeau's promise of electoral reform: From 'we can do better' to betrayal

Justin Trudeau once seemed very interested in changing the way federal elections are conducted in this country.

"I believe fundamentally that we can do better," he said during a forum at the University of Ottawa last April, 10 months after he first vowed that a Liberal government would move past the current federal electoral system. "We can have an electoral system that does a better job of reflecting the concerns, the voices of Canadians from coast to coast to coast, and give us a better level of governance."

It was, he said, a priority for him and for a lot of Canadians who believe, "we need to make sure that going forward we have the best possible electoral system."

Less than a year later, he stands accused of deceit, cynicism and betrayal, after a new mandate letter issued to Minister of Democratic Institutions Karina Gould announced the government would not be pursuing electoral reform.

"What Trudeau proved himself today was to be a liar, was to be of the most cynical variety of politician," the NDP's Nathan Cullen said on Wednesday.

Proportional representation, in which seats are allotted in proportion to the national popular vote, could result in smaller parties gaining representation. Canada is, as noted by a senior Liberal this week, a large and regionally diverse country. The implications for the federal party system deserve careful consideration.

Unfortunately, this debate was not openly held. Except within the testimony of academics at the special committee, the political and public discourse never got to that point, the Liberals preferring to keep the discussion focused on values.

Not until Wednesday afternoon, an hour after his commitment was declared null and void, did Trudeau categorically assert his preference for preferential voting and publicly pit it against the NDP's desire for proportional representation.

Early on, the basic idea of preferential voting was criticized in some circles for its design and identified as a system that might favour the Liberals. And the prime minister is said to have kept an open mind about proportional representation.

Trudeau's promise of electoral reform: From 'we can do better' to accusations of betrayal - Politics - CBC News

 

[Mowich]

​

 

[Curious Cdn]

The news that Trudeau said whatever to get himself and his party elected doesn't surprise me in the least. I am relieved, however, of having the bad idea of ending first-past-the-post put to rest. We really don't need the political anarchy of constantly shifting coalitions consisting of the first, second, third, fourth, fifth place finishers re-jigging themselves for advantage rather than providing steady, stable governments. We could end up like Israel or Italy ... easily.

 

[DaSleeper]

First flossy was all for Trudeau's promise


Now that trudeau back pedaled, he thinks that's a good idea


A real Liberal lemming ..


or maybe a....

 

[Cannuck]

First flossy was all for Trudeau's promise


Now that trudeau back pedaled, he thinks that's a good idea


A real Liberal lemming ...

You're getting to be as big a liar as Flossy

 

[DaSleeper]

 

[davesmom]

I don't think most Canadians cared about changing the electoral system, Just my opinion.
But to hear Trudeau absolutely promising and then backing away is disgusting. Not a surprise though. Of all his outlandish promises how many has he kept? He's too busy funding foreign interests with out borrowed money.
Nothing a Liberal promises in campaign mode ever happens. Just like '......abolish the GST'.
They don't even have the guts to face the public and say that after rethinking it doesn't seem like a good idea. They try to justify their lies with a bunch of gobbledegook.

 

[JLM]

I don't think most Canadians cared about changing the electoral system, Just my opinion.
But to hear Trudeau absolutely promising and then backing away is disgusting. Not a surprise though. Of all his outlandish promises how many has he kept? He's too busy funding foreign interests with out borrowed money.
Nothing a Liberal promises in campaign mode ever happens. Just like '......abolish the GST'.
They don't even have the guts to face the public and say that after rethinking it doesn't seem like a good idea. They try to justify their lies with a bunch of gobbledegook.

Speaking just for myself you are right. Who's really interested in someone's 2nd choice? A lot of people are confused about their first choice!

 

[tay]

Christopher Majka highlights how Justin Trudeau's choice to break a core promise on electoral reform can only be explained by his taking Canadian voters for fools, while Scott Baker and Mark Dance write that it's bound to fuel voter cynicism.


Tom Parkin discusses Trudeau's dishonesty on the issue, while Lawrence Martin emphasizes the damage the decision will do to Trudeau's core brand.


Karl Nerenberg points out how the retention of first-past-the-post is a gift to the right wing.



Meanwhile, Michael Taube rightly observes that the Liberals' choice to nix electoral reform doesn't mean the issue will disappear.


Michael Morden and Michael Crawford Urban comment on the need for improved voter turnout as a means of ensuring better governance.

 

[Locutus]

Oh, Shiny hoof in mouth.

By lance on February 10, 2017 1:00 AM | 8 Comments

You mean like the NDP? Or Reform? Or the BQ? The Greens? The CCF was certainly a disruptive force in Canadian Politics.

Shorter hair: "How dare Canadians make choices for themselves. After all, we are the Naturally Governing Party, n'est-ce pas?"


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau pointed to Conservative leadership candidate Kellie Leitch Thursday to argue that one of the reasons he abandoned his electoral reform promise was to prevent politicians with "fringe" views from gaining the balance of power in Parliament.

"Do you think that Kellie Leitch should have her own party?" Trudeau said Thursday in Iqaluit. "Because if you have a party that represents the fringe voices … or the periphery of our perspectives and they hold 10, 15, 20 seats in the House, they end up holding the balance of power."

The prime minister was walking through a crowd when a woman approached him to ask why he killed a campaign promise made during the 2015 election, when he said that vote would be the last decided by the first-past-the-post system.

"Proportional representation in any form would be bad for Canada," Trudeau responded.

The woman, visibly taken aback, she said she "very respectfully" disagreed.

'Do you think Kellie Leitch should have her own party?' Trudeau asks woman upset over electoral reform - Politics - CBC News

 

[tay]

Trudeau blames opposition for electoral reform failure

PM Trudeau blames opposition for electoral reform failure, budget deficit | CTV News