thats not what he said. he said we werent reponsible for them if they happened before we were born and that makes sense. kinda like saying if my grandmother was a theif means its my fault too.
The New Paganism and the Culture of Death
- Thread starter sanctus
- Start date
thats not what he said. he said we werent reponsible for them if they happened before we were born and that makes sense. kinda like saying if my grandmother was a theif means its my fault too.
i read the whole thing like you suggested. didnt help, alls i get is people on each side of the issue being rude to each other and making fun of each others beliefs. also spent time last night researching pagans on the net, but that only made it more confusing so i gave up. pagans seems like protestant in that there are as many kinds of pagans as their are protestant churches. i think ill focus instead on the path i have chosen and not worry about this for now.
Hold on there honey...
Isn't the whole notion regarding the sinful nature of man coming from the Garden...
Once again....look at this THIS way but don't look at this THIS way.... Forget about it, when it's convenient for Christians to make a point about something they're willing to stand truth on its head just like any other political party or ideological zealot.
Isn't the whole notion regarding the sinful nature of man coming from the Garden...
Once again....look at this THIS way but don't look at this THIS way.... Forget about it, when it's convenient for Christians to make a point about something they're willing to stand truth on its head just like any other political party or ideological zealot.
i dont think that has anything to do with it. im not informed enough of the faith yet to know, but sanctus probably does. alls i know is that he said we are not responsible for things that were done by others. it makes sense to me. so like, your sins are not my sins. know what i mean?
That's not what the Christian faith says...
Man's sinful nature comes from Adam listening to a woman...(bad move....{just joking} and eating of the forbidden fruit.
The lesson here is that human beings are all accountable for the sins of their past committed by other sinful human beings...
There's no escaping your human nature according to the good Christian church...
Fear mongers and contortionists of logic and reason.
Man's sinful nature comes from Adam listening to a woman...(bad move....{just joking} and eating of the forbidden fruit.
The lesson here is that human beings are all accountable for the sins of their past committed by other sinful human beings...
There's no escaping your human nature according to the good Christian church...
Fear mongers and contortionists of logic and reason.
Sorry, I mis-spoke there...
If you acknowledge that what the Christian faith says is your responsibility because of your sinful nature (created by god dontcha know...) you can lay claim to forty acres in Nirvana...
Dngle the carrot threaten with the stick.... Same story as terrorists and thugs...
If you acknowledge that what the Christian faith says is your responsibility because of your sinful nature (created by god dontcha know...) you can lay claim to forty acres in Nirvana...
Dngle the carrot threaten with the stick.... Same story as terrorists and thugs...
How do you square that with the notion of original sin and the pain and death god makes us all suffer for it?
Original sin dosen't mean we are responsible for the sins of other people. It simply means that we are born into the stain of our first parents and have to amend for this, not that we are personally responsible for the behaviour of every person that has ever lived.
you're right about that. It's perfectly normal. What i do when i read a debate like this is take all the views into consideration but mark people down mentally when they start to be rude. If people get rude it lowers the value of their opinion in my mind. The same is true of hypocrasy. An apology scores more points and an admission of wrongness scores quite a lot.
It helps that I don't have a "side" here, since i don't believe in catholicism OR paganism, but i think they're both possibly true. maybe not at the same time as each other. I won't know till i die, and even then, maybe not.
Yes I know what original sin means. It means we're born guilty of a sin for which we have to atone, committed by fictional people in an allegorical tale invented by desert nomads thousands of years ago in an attempt to explain why there's so much suffering in the world, and if that's not holding us responsible for the behaviour of somebody else I don't know what would be.
God does not make us suffer anything. We are free to do as we please, and most of our suffering comes as a result of our own doing.
No, the point, more accurately, is that each person born is born with the stain of original sin upon them. This means they are people of free will who must make their own choices.
Furthermore, this is off-topic from the main point, for I am certainly not in a position to answer for God. BUT I do know that I personally am not responsbile for anything done by other humans in the past anymore than I am for those living around me.
Your suggestion otherwise would make both you and I guilty of what the chap in Pickton is now on trial for.
Yes, we have a sinful nature, but we are also expected to be accountable for our own actions.
Not once have I suggested we forget anything. I clearly stated we learn from the past to help us today. However, I am not responsible for the Holocaust anymore then you are. Nor was I the cause of it.
It won't do, this PC mindset that would have us all running about the country feeling contrite over every action performed by our ancestors. We are only responsible for our own actions, always.
You know Sanctus, I believe you can believe embrace or subscribe to any ideological construct just so long as you're not hurting anyone...its fine with me.
That can't be said of the Roman Catholic Church and it sure as hell isn't reflected in the RC's hiding pedophiles and protecting criminals from due process. All that original sin stuff is hawgwash; existence has to "be" for any convoluted rationalization to take place. If our existence is delivered by some entity that makes life a crap shoot...."Hey your a sinful creature...but I the creator who made you a sinful creature can help you with that..."
Hawgwash.
That can't be said of the Roman Catholic Church and it sure as hell isn't reflected in the RC's hiding pedophiles and protecting criminals from due process. All that original sin stuff is hawgwash; existence has to "be" for any convoluted rationalization to take place. If our existence is delivered by some entity that makes life a crap shoot...."Hey your a sinful creature...but I the creator who made you a sinful creature can help you with that..."
Hawgwash.
Yes, some areas of any organization is never perfect, yet it does not nullify the organization as a whole.
And to be frank, this is a media created issue more so than anything else. The proportion of actual priests out of the total is quite small.
As did most elements of society, not that long ago. I'm not protecting the image of the Church, believe it or not, I'm only saying that, despite its errors, it is still Holy and interested in the Glory of God.
Yall talk so much better than I do. I just see red and fume. If people are gonna call names then they better make sure their spotless. Take false idols for example. Whats all those statues in the church? They worship gods, christ, god and the holy spirit. I worship a trinity too. In fact they took the idea from MY ancesters. I dont care what you call me but you better look in the mirror as you do it.
I have to go to PT I'll be back *she says in her best Arnold voice*