The new 'math' in Manitoba is dying slowly

[Zipperfish]

That isn't the point of education, at least it's not supposed to be. And I can't agree with accepting that as "well that's just how it is". We're paying to educate children, we should get educated children.

I agree that it's not what it's supposed to be, but that's what it is.

I'm overstating the case though--we do, for the most part, graduate people who can read, write and understand basic arithmetric (althuogh the jury is stil out on spleling). But kids don't spend much time on the Three Rs. Most of it is inculcation of important societal values. They spend a good chunk of the day learning about sharing and the environment. For instance, it's part of teh science curriculum in BC to "recognize the significance of celestial objects to First nations cultures."

I'm a scientist and my wife has a degree in math. So it's no surprise that my kids are good at math. My son just started Grade 5, but we work at home on basic algebra--Grade 7 or Grade 8 stuff. It would be nice if they challenged him at school but they are more interested in cultural diversity and punctuality.

Just my two cents anyways.

 

[taxslave]

I agree that it's not what it's supposed to be, but that's what it is.

I'm overstating the case though--we do, for the most part, graduate people who can read, write and understand basic arithmetric (althuogh the jury is stil out on spleling). But kids don't spend much time on the Three Rs. Most of it is inculcation of important societal values. They spend a good chunk of the day learning about sharing and the environment. For instance, it's part of teh science curriculum in BC to "recognize the significance of celestial objects to First nations cultures."

I'm a scientist and my wife has a degree in math. So it's no surprise that my kids are good at math. My son just started Grade 5, but we work at home on basic algebra--Grade 7 or Grade 8 stuff. It would be nice if they challenged him at school but they are more interested in cultural diversity and punctuality.

Just my two cents anyways.

Unionized teachers, who also more or less run the education system do not feel the need to work that hard. They also would much rather squander tons of money on the unteachable because it is PC to have them in a class with their age group than work hard with the gifted.

 

[Zipperfish]

Unionized teachers, who also more or less run the education system do not feel the need to work that hard. They also would much rather squander tons of money on the unteachable because it is PC to have them in a class with their age group than work hard with the gifted.

Meh. The politicians are just as much to blame as the teachers. They're in it together as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SLM]

I agree that it's not what it's supposed to be, but that's what it is.

I'm overstating the case though--we do, for the most part, graduate people who can read, write and understand basic arithmetric (althuogh the jury is stil out on spleling).

We do and we don't. I know it's not absolutely dire, we're not looking at 50% or more but I've known quite a few people who were 'passed along' when their reading skills, in particular, were not up to snuff. That should never be acceptable, even in small numbers.

But kids don't spend much time on the Three Rs. Most of it is inculcation of important societal values. They spend a good chunk of the day learning about sharing and the environment. For instance, it's part of teh science curriculum in BC to "recognize the significance of celestial objects to First nations cultures."

And there is/can be value in social studies. Reading, writing, math are all very basic skills, important ones but basic none the less. It's the foundation and like all foundations, you build upon it to achieve greater heights and greater understanding. If you don't have that, if we are not providing that sufficiently, how well are kids going to be able to understand things beyond that? Not that I'm a "society is going to hell in a handbasket" kind of a person, far from it, but how many is an acceptable number to 'leave behind'? Is any number of children an acceptable number to leave behind? Should we be looking at even 4 or 5 percent (just a random number meant to convey a smaller proportion, I don't know the actual figures) that may be "passed along" without really learning the material and say that's too much?

I'm a scientist and my wife has a degree in math. So it's no surprise that my kids are good at math. My son just started Grade 5, but we work at home on basic algebra--Grade 7 or Grade 8 stuff. It would be nice if they challenged him at school but they are more interested in cultural diversity and punctuality.

I'd expect in your household that your kids would have their math and science skills augmented but not taught. We have to have standards and maintain those standards. Because the kids who don't have scientists and mathematicians for parents are really getting screwed out of the basics of their education aren't they?

 

[Zipperfish]

We do and we don't. I know it's not absolutely dire, we're not looking at 50% or more but I've known quite a few people who were 'passed along' when their reading skills, in particular, were not up to snuff. That should never be acceptable, even in small numbers.

And there is/can be value in social studies. Reading, writing, math are all very basic skills, important ones but basic none the less. It's the foundation and like all foundations, you build upon it to achieve greater heights and greater understanding. If you don't have that, if we are not providing that sufficiently, how well are kids going to be able to understand things beyond that? Not that I'm a "society is going to hell in a handbasket" kind of a person, far from it, but how many is an acceptable number to 'leave behind'? Is any number of children an acceptable number to leave behind? Should we be looking at even 4 or 5 percent (just a random number meant to convey a smaller proportion, I don't know the actual figures) that may be "passed along" without really learning the material and say that's too much?

I think the ability of the system to be adpative to the needs of students is pretty limited. You've got a huge bureacracy, a strong union, politicos--none of whom is particularly looking out for the students. That's why I say that, as a parent, it's up to you to customize the public educaiton experience to your child's need.

It's a fair question though. I've got two girls on my soccer team (whihc my daughter is on) and they suck up about 50% of my total effort because they have issues. I wish they weren't there sometimes, but then--where would they go? Then I feel guilty. After a while you get used to them, and there's a pretty good feeling orf accomplishment if you can actually coach them to do something!

 

[Tonington]

So which math gives you 5 when you add 2+2?

MBA math. That's what an MBA brings to the table when they leave their centers of excellence and go into the corporate world. High level leverage that monetizes their learnings.

 

[SLM]

I think the ability of the system to be adpative to the needs of students is pretty limited. You've got a huge bureacracy, a strong union, politicos--none of whom is particularly looking out for the students.

And along the way, standards have been let go.

That's why I say that, as a parent, it's up to you to customize the public educaiton experience to your child's need.

That's what you have to do, but you shouldn't have to be doing that. Because that will ensure that those children born of parents who were "passed along" themselves, will continue to do poorly (potentially anyway).

 

[Zipperfish]

And along the way, standards have been let go.

That's what you have to do, but you shouldn't have to be doing that. Because that will ensure that those children born of parents who were "passed along" themselves, will continue to do poorly (potentially anyway).

Yes , I think that problem will get worse. These days, in my area (North Shore, Vancouver) you can shop schools. So everyone wants to go to the tony West Van schools, who then get more money. Meanwhile, parents have to pay more and more for extras that used to be included (like band) and the teachers days off are just proliferating endlessly, and a lot of parents are moving their kids to private schhols. It's a great business to be in right now--they are booming. And I suspect a further deterioriation of the public school system as the shift to provate schools continues.

 

[SLM]

Yes , I think that problem will get worse. These days, in my area (North Shore, Vancouver) you can shop schools. So everyone wants to go to the tony West Van schools, who then get more money. Meanwhile, parents have to pay more and more for extras that used to be included (like band) and the teachers days off are just proliferating endlessly, and a lot of parents are moving their kids to private schhols. It's a great business to be in right now--they are booming. And I suspect a further deterioriation of the public school system as the shift to provate schools continues.

That makes me both sad, at the loss of 'community' that it represents, and it also pisses me off to some degree too, lol. Makes me want to slap people and say "pay attention to what's frigging happening!".

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I ran away from school when I was 13. Probably the only reason I'm an educated man.

 

[Spade]

I ran away from school when I was 13. Probably the only reason I'm an educated man.

Go figure.
PS
New math is over 50; coming to the b'day celebration?

 

[Zipperfish]

I never finished high school either.

 

[Spade]

Finishing school is underrated.