The Martin "Address" to the Nation
- Thread starter MMMike
- Start date
I would have paid money to hear him say that.
That's not really the point though. His first job is to get re-elected. If he can't do that his job is to maintain enough power to influence policy. He gave an effective speech to that end given the situation. It was a good move politically.
I said a while ago that Martin wasn't calling the shots anymore, that the party strategists had taken over.
June 27. The only way out of that is for Martin to let Layton call the shots on the budget. That goes against Martin's brutally conservative bias, so it's not going to happen.
I considered Manning (and still consider Stevie) to be as much of a regional rump party as the BQ. Alberta holds no more thrill for me than Quebec. At the BQ have some progressive policies though.
RE: The Martin "Address"
The request is perfectly legitimate...dump the corporate tax cut and give the money to the provinces. We already have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world.
The request is perfectly legitimate...dump the corporate tax cut and give the money to the provinces. We already have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world.
RE: The Martin "Address"
Anyone else see Martin on the National tonight? He sure looked haggard.
There were some interesting comments shown afterwards 3 for Martin and 3 against.
I think Harper is really power hungry and wants power at no matter the cost, even before the final judgement is out. I saw his "speech"( if you can call it that) and he really showed his true colours.
I sure hope the NDP pick up seats next time, but I also hope they do not split to much of the vote so Harper gets in.
Anyone else see Martin on the National tonight? He sure looked haggard.
There were some interesting comments shown afterwards 3 for Martin and 3 against.
I think Harper is really power hungry and wants power at no matter the cost, even before the final judgement is out. I saw his "speech"( if you can call it that) and he really showed his true colours.
I sure hope the NDP pick up seats next time, but I also hope they do not split to much of the vote so Harper gets in.
RE: The Martin "Address"
As long as Harper is in a minority, it doesn't matter if he gets in. He can't get a majority with his numbers, especially in Ontario, so what the hell?
Even if he were to get a majority, what harm would it do? SSM is already a fact in eight jurisdictions and only a moron would try to back out of Kyoto.
Martin is already toeing Harper's line on the rest.
As long as Harper is in a minority, it doesn't matter if he gets in. He can't get a majority with his numbers, especially in Ontario, so what the hell?
Even if he were to get a majority, what harm would it do? SSM is already a fact in eight jurisdictions and only a moron would try to back out of Kyoto.
Martin is already toeing Harper's line on the rest.
We have set election dates in BC now.
As for the speech, I thought it was pathetic. I was still behind the Liberal govt and Martin until I watched it last night. He just made himself look like an idiot and embarrassed the country. The way he did it just wasnt right. He totally abused his power.
As for the speech, I thought it was pathetic. I was still behind the Liberal govt and Martin until I watched it last night. He just made himself look like an idiot and embarrassed the country. The way he did it just wasnt right. He totally abused his power.
On that I think he did it right. It was short and to the point. The leaders of the opposition responses were all far longer than Martin and I think that was the idea, to get them yapping and to show what they are really about getting the spotlight, not about getting this mess addressed.
So I am supposed to wade though hours of testimony? C'mon! The inquiry has a job to do, transparency is a rare thing in politics and you want to shut it down? Martin called an election and shut down the Public Accounts Committee before for the exact same reason. An election during it would negate the findings and we would have to do the whole thing from scratch again, or do you want a kangaroo court? Sounds like your minds made up already so I will quite now trying to reason with the unreasonable.
MMMike said:
So I am supposed to wade though hours of testimony? C'mon! The inquiry has a job to do, transparency is a rare thing in politics and you want to shut it down? Martin called an election and shut down the Public Accounts Committee before for the exact same reason. An election during it would negate the findings and we would have to do the whole thing from scratch again, or do you want a kangaroo court? Sounds like your minds made up already so I will quite now trying to reason with the unreasonable.
Quebecers do it!
You should too!
Remember that this address wasn't an official one! Martin didn't reclaim time for his address, he made a video tape, propaganda video like terrorists do, to defend his party, the liberal party.
He then sent the tape to broadcaster, and then the broadcaster gave a place for the opposition to speak up too. I'm sure Martin whished the opposition leaders did not speak directly after him, but he had absolutely no control over it.
RE: The Martin "Address"
What most people tend to forget, or do not know, is that the BQ requested 26 times over the years for an inquiry about this scandal.
Still, Martin has the guts to say he made this inquiry.
I think lots of folks in the west don't know that, I wonder why.
What most people tend to forget, or do not know, is that the BQ requested 26 times over the years for an inquiry about this scandal.
Still, Martin has the guts to say he made this inquiry.
I think lots of folks in the west don't know that, I wonder why.
Re: RE: The Martin "Address"
Could be because in Vancouver Canwest has both major dailies, plus National post, numerous local 2-3 times a week papers, owns the major TV station for news (Global BC and CH on island). Global news at 6 is number 1 newscast in Canada. Thats more than likley is the reason.
There is no real competition or real alternative out here. Thank Zeus for the internet.
cub1c said:
Could be because in Vancouver Canwest has both major dailies, plus National post, numerous local 2-3 times a week papers, owns the major TV station for news (Global BC and CH on island). Global news at 6 is number 1 newscast in Canada. Thats more than likley is the reason.
There is no real competition or real alternative out here. Thank Zeus for the internet.
It's already clearly apparent what this 'sponsorship' program was all about. Cash in brown envelopes, million dollar commissions for little or no work, and massive donations to the Liberal Party. If that is not enough how about appointments to the bench for lawyers volunteering for the Liberals, how about interventions for immigrants freindly with the Liberals, how about the massive waste of taxpayer money on HRDC, gun registry, administering native land claims.... it goes on and on. There are plenty of reasons to turf the Liberals: pick one.
Gomery will go on and complete his report regardless of if there is an election or not. The only thing blocking him are the Liberal party members trying to shut him down in the courts.
RE: The Martin "Address"
That's not accurate, MMMike. You are confusing the criminality with the legitimate program and are assigning that criminality to all Liberals without knowing whether they were involved or not. You are ignoring conflicting testimony and you have not seen the documents that may or may not support the testimony you have chosen to believe.
There have been elections since HRDC and the gun registry came into being. Native land claims will have to be settled whether you like it or not...they are based on international-level treaties.
There is no reason to rush into an election right now (at a cost of $250 million) except for crass political gain by a party that shows no signs of being any less corrupt than the Liberals and is of dubious readiness to govern.
That's not accurate, MMMike. You are confusing the criminality with the legitimate program and are assigning that criminality to all Liberals without knowing whether they were involved or not. You are ignoring conflicting testimony and you have not seen the documents that may or may not support the testimony you have chosen to believe.
There have been elections since HRDC and the gun registry came into being. Native land claims will have to be settled whether you like it or not...they are based on international-level treaties.
There is no reason to rush into an election right now (at a cost of $250 million) except for crass political gain by a party that shows no signs of being any less corrupt than the Liberals and is of dubious readiness to govern.
Q
If you can't see that this program from the outset had nothing to do with federalism you have your head in the sand. How is putting up flags at a hunting show, or sponsoring tips on fishing on the radio in anyway connected to federalism. The very idea is insulting. And why do you think that millions of $$ in commissions were handed over for NO work? Or how about the magazine where our money was used to underwrite advertising for the PQ?? Face it, the whole point of the program was to skim off taxpayer dollars for Liberal coffers.
I'm talking about their great new ADR system where 97% of the costs went to the lawyers and judges (Liberal friendly no doubt), and 3% was actually paid to the victims.
Crass political gain? That is always the reason for the timing of an election. It's a minority government - they have to rely on the Conservatives to prop them up. The liberals have clearly lost the moral authority to govern.
If you can't see that this program from the outset had nothing to do with federalism you have your head in the sand. How is putting up flags at a hunting show, or sponsoring tips on fishing on the radio in anyway connected to federalism. The very idea is insulting. And why do you think that millions of $$ in commissions were handed over for NO work? Or how about the magazine where our money was used to underwrite advertising for the PQ?? Face it, the whole point of the program was to skim off taxpayer dollars for Liberal coffers.
I'm talking about their great new ADR system where 97% of the costs went to the lawyers and judges (Liberal friendly no doubt), and 3% was actually paid to the victims.
Crass political gain? That is always the reason for the timing of an election. It's a minority government - they have to rely on the Conservatives to prop them up. The liberals have clearly lost the moral authority to govern.
The Liberals are up to 31 points (rise of 3) since the speeches, MMMikey. Conservatives are down 1.
Then you aren't talking about land claims, you are talking about people being compensated for being raped. It's important to use the right terminology.
So all the sponsorships of sporting and cultural events by private companies are a waste of money too? We'd better let them know before the Indy 500 then....
That's the criminality part. It needs to be fully investigated and charges laid.
Mea culpa... I was referring to the lawsuits over the residential schools. You're right.
Big difference: private companies are free to spend their money however they see fit, subject to the approval of their shareholders. We're talking about my tax dollars that they were wasting there. Besides, I think you would agree that selling widgets is a little different than selling "federalism".
Ooh, yes. I expect to see Jean Chretien in handcuffs... I won't hold my breath.
What's the Conservative policy on that though. They didn't think the Canadian government should pay any compensation at all when the issue first came up. Did that change?
The point is that kind of advertising is known to work. If it didn't work, it wouldn't exist. It is part of the branding process and the federal government was selling brand Canada; mostly, but not just, in Quebec. Every party attempted to get at least some money for their pet projects through that program too.
Whether you agree with the program or not is beside the point the though. It was a legitimate program, separate from the scandal that arose from the misuse of funds.
For him to be charged, there has to be evidence that he did something criminal. That hasn't happened yet.
ottytrain1: