The Martin "Address" to the Nation

[no1important]

RE: The Martin "Address"

Can't you make up your own mind about what went on? The testimony is rehashed every day on the news and radio, and internet. You can read the testimony online. Come to your own conclusions.

Yes but it still is really second hand. I also am wise enough to know how the press and talk show radio put thier own "slants" on it, to make is more sensational than it may or may not be.

I for one just want to see the final report first, instead of getting bits and pieces.

Everyone blames Martin(yes the leader is responsible) but there is no real hard evidence it was him, just the party and Chretien. You must remember Martin and Chretien hate each other. I am not saying Martin is totally innocent but I want to see the report first. It is just fair and the right thing to do, instead of how so many people are jumping on the band wagon to crucify him. He apologized and to me seemed sincere.

I do not vote Liberal but Martin should be able to stay in power until the full final report comes out in December. To me, that is not to much to ask. He said there will call an election (providing Harper does not succeed with a non confidence motion) 30 days after report comes out. After all we are a democratic country.

 

[Reverend Blair]

This means a spring election in 2006.

It would put the election on the first Monday of February, most likely. It's not going to happen though. The Conservatives won't wait.

Frankly I am sick of Liberal corruption and this is a crisis of the liberal party brought on by the arrogance of Jean, not Paul. Just like the PC party split with reform after Brian so too the Liberal have two camps as well.

The problem is that the camps are all equally corrupt. How are we supposed to deal with that? Nobody likely to get elected is going to change the system because it benefits them.

If we end up with an election now we will have Harper in power with the Bloc as the opposition.

I wouldn't bet on that after last night and with the coming Martin blitz, Scape. A lot of people are still nervous about Harper and he's still playing to Alberta instead of Ontario.

I doubt the Liberals will drop much lower in the polls than they already are, and most of that support is in seat-rich Ontario.

I wonder what a Liberal/Conservative tie would bring us?

Might as well lower the flag and put up the stars and stripes and give Quebec to the separatists. Goodbye Canada!

I don't see a lot of difference between Harper and Martin on this front. Both are big fans of deep integration. Both favour their corporate cronies over the rest of us.

Harpers plan for Canadian unity will be a tough love approach to Quebec that will play into the hands of the separatists.

I think you're giving him too much credit. He's more likely to revert to building a firewall around Alberta, then send out corporate crews to rape and pillage the other provinces.

Laton doesn't have the electoral gravitas to the voting public and no one in the NDP will so a NDP government is a fairy tale.

There's still that balance of power thing though. I also think that Layton is doing a good job of looking like the only one that wants things to work.

The liberals may very well be corrupt bastards but they are Canadian corrupt bastards, it's not much of a choice but it really is the only one we have.

What time do the bars open? I think we all deserve a stiff drink.

 

[no1important]

RE: The Martin "Address"

I wonder what a Liberal/Conservative tie would bring us?

Liberals would stay in power, at least at the start. If they were tied after the election. But who knows for how long and it would depend if the NDP held the balance.

What time do the bars open? I think we all deserve a stiff drink.

Some here open around 9:30 and some 10 am. Beer stores open at 9 but I am well stocked.

 

[MMMike]

Yes but it still is really second hand. I also am wise enough to know how the press and talk show radio put thier own "slants" on it, to make is more sensational than it may or may not be.

I for one just want to see the final report first, instead of getting bits and pieces.

Everyone blames Martin(yes the leader is responsible) but there is no real hard evidence it was him, just the party and Chretien. You must remember Martin and Chretien hate each other. I am not saying Martin is totally innocent but I want to see the report first. It is just fair and the right thing to do, instead of how so many people are jumping on the band wagon to crucify him. He apologized and to me seemed sincere.

You can read the actual testimony on the Gomery Commission website - first hand, no media filter. The entire Liberal party has been tainted by this scandal. They need to be out of power for a while. They need a good housecleaning, and come back with some fresh faces and actual ideas about how to run the country. Then even I would take another look at them.

By far the most likely outcome of the next election is a Conservative minority government. People will see Harper is not scary, no hidden agenda - with policies only marginally different from Martins.

 

[MMMike]

I am pissed off I missed this. I hope it gets re broadcast again tonight sometime on Newsworld. Usually I do not miss these things.

The timing of this thing was terrible. It's obvious he's targetting Ontarians, and as usual, to hell with the west.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The Martin "Address"

There are millions of pages of documents that go along with that testimony, MMMike. Making a decision based solely on the testimony without waiting for Gomery's final report is a fools game. There is even a chance, albeit a slim one, that his report would have an ensuing election fought on instituting real reforms to deal with corruption.

The Conservatives don't have any fresh ideas either. They'll integrate with US quicker than Martin. That's the core of their platform. Martin's is that he'll integrate slowly. All that really separates the two are social issues and Canadians like the Liberals' social policies better.

Sponsorship may encourage some to hold their noses and vote Conservative, but if this thing was as big as it's being painted or people considered the Conservatives a viable option, the Liberals would be fourth in polls and looking at getting only two seats. That ain't happening.

 

[DasFX]

The timing of this thing was terrible. It's obvious he's targetting Ontarians, and as usual, to hell with the west.

Canadians favourite thing to do is complain! What would have been a better time? Say he put it on at 10PM EDT, how is that better? Sure BC and Alberta can watch in the evening, but what about Newfoundland and Atlantic Canada where people would be in bed at around 11 and 11:30PM?

It is unfortunate that Sir Sanford Fleming came up with this whole time zone thing and it is unfortunate that Canada is so big that we 6 times zones. The thing was taped anyway; it isn't like we watched it live in Ontario? I'm sure the speeches were replayed again later in the evening in the West.

Do you think Vlad Putin has to hear these complaints in Russia? They have 11 times zones; can you imagine if the Western Canadians lived in Siberia?

 

[no1important]

RE: The Martin "Address"

well at 4 pm pdt was too early. 5:30 pdt would of been better(still early here but we all need to compromise), yes that is late in NFLD but still just 10 pm there. 8:30 in Montreal so that would of been a better compromise for the whole country. Most people I know do not get off work until 4 or 5. Its not as if they all would be driving home as fast as they could to watch it anyways..........

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: The Martin "Address"

well at 4 pm pdt was too early. 5:30 pdt would of been better(still early here but we all need to compromise), yes that is late in NFLD but still just 10 pm there. 8:30 in Montreal so that would of been a better compromise for the whole country. Most people I know do not get off work until 4 or 5. Its not as if they all would be driving home as fast as they could to watch it anyways..........

Honestly, it wasn’t Paul Martin who decided to go at 7 EDT (4 PDT), it was the networks. Thursday is a big night for Canadians to watch their American TV so having it interrupted by the Canadian Prime Minister wasn't even an option (for Ontario and Québec).

Like I said it was taped, watching it at 4 PDT or 5:30 PDT or 8 PDT wouldn't have made a difference so what is the big deal? The information didn't change. As for the opposition speeches, they simply read a script. I could have watched the thing at 3AM; I would have gotten the same info out of it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Do you think Vlad Putin has to hear these complaints in Russia? They have 11 times zones; can you imagine if the Western Canadians lived in Siberia?

Have you ever been to Winnipeg in January?

Re: the whole time thing...

It was originally slated for 7:45 edt. The TV guys bumped it up by 45 minutes. That would be CTV and Global, unless you believe that George Strombouloupolis has more pull at the CBC than Peter Mansbridge.

 

[whicker]

Re: RE: The Martin "Address" to the Nation

As Stephen Harper correctly put it, "A prime minister should not be addressing the population on this partisan issue, but rather on the concerns and challenges with which we are confronted: the health care system, international trade, agriculture, the fiscal imbalance, safer communities, stronger families, and a cleaner environment."

He should not have used this time for anything as it is supposed to be 'national issue' time and the fact that the liberals are in hot water is not national but rather party issue.

 

[whicker]

Re: RE: The Martin "Address"

Martin tried a Hail Mary pass tonight. Like that phrase.It just might work too...the man on the street reaction on TV has been mixed. We'll know next week when the polls come out.
I thought the 'man on the street' was supposed to like him already

Anyway, Martin did a good job in his first election speech in almost a year. He looked haggard and contrite. He listed everything that he did in regard to sponsorship, including shutting down the program. He played to all of the polls, which indicate that Canadians want to wait for an election.

Harper came off as being arrogant and unstatesman-like to anybody who is worried about him. I don't think he came across as arrogant or unstatesman but there is something about him that just doesn't seem to elicite a good reactionHe spun out the same old lines. He also, in the little bit of policy he mentioned, seemed to back away from Kyoto again. He flip-flopped before when he said he would honour the agreement, but tonight he mentioned every kind of pollution except greenhouse gas.

Harper looked like he was making an election speech to a partisan crowd in downtown Calgary, not to an Ontario audience that's nervous about him. Don't know what it is about the man but he looked like he was giving his very first speech in school, not an election speech or to anybody in particular. I thought his speech was better than the other two. It really wasn't an election speech or too much of one. No politician is going to miss an opportunity to stroke their own goals but at least it was at the end and only one para.
Duceppe played to his Quebec separatists. That's good. That's his job. :joker:

Layton made an election speech which was not necessary but then there is the stroking aspect.
Who's going to benefit? We'll see. Harper is going to have to get on an Ontario message if he wants to win seats though. Right now the only bet I'd take would be 100 to 1 for Duceppe becoming the next PM...everything else is too screwed up to call. And won't that make more mess for RC or Real Canada.

 

[no1important]

RE: The Martin "Address"

Personally I think the PM no matter who he/she is, should adress the Nation at least once a month, even if it is just for five minutes.

People want to hear whats on his/her mind and talk to us, the people about ongoing issues, legislations and any other important updates etc. I think some issues are important enough that they should be coming from the horses (pm's) mouth, so to speak. So we are clear where he/she stands.

We elect them so it is their duty to keep us informed, and not just by newspapers, radio, speeches in House of Commons. The Prime minister is the head of the country and he should be able to adress the people without people bitching about it being a waste of money.

CPAC, Newsworld and Newsnet would carry it anyways at no cost to taxpayers.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: The Martin "Address"

well at 4 pm pdt was too early. 5:30 pdt would of been better(still early here but we all need to compromise), yes that is late in NFLD but still just 10 pm there. 8:30 in Montreal so that would of been a better compromise for the whole country. Most people I know do not get off work until 4 or 5. Its not as if they all would be driving home as fast as they could to watch it anyways..........

Honestly, it wasn’t Paul Martin who decided to go at 7 EDT (4 PDT), it was the networks. Thursday is a big night for Canadians to watch their American TV so having it interrupted by the Canadian Prime Minister wasn't even an option (for Ontario and Québec).

Like I said it was taped, watching it at 4 PDT or 5:30 PDT or 8 PDT wouldn't have made a difference so what is the big deal? The information didn't change. As for the opposition speeches, they simply read a script. I could have watched the thing at 3AM; I would have gotten the same info out of it.

Well, English TV isnt popular here. Any day or time would of been the same.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Personally I think the PM no matter who he/she is, should adress the Nation at least once a month, even if it is just for five minutes.

As long as the other party leaders get to speak too, that would be excellent. You can't even hear what they say in the HofC half the time anymore.

I thought the 'man on the street' was supposed to like him already

That really didn't seem to have been changed by the speeches.

I don't think he came across as arrogant or unstatesman but there is something about him that just doesn't seem to elicite a good reaction

Everybody I've talked to that isn't right-leaning is creeped out by Harper. One right-leaning (far enough that I keep expecting him to tip over) person that I know is absolutely livid at Harper right now. Harper should be way up in the polls with all this going on. He isn't.

 

[dukee]

Re: RE: The Martin "Address"

Personally I think the PM no matter who he/she is, should adress the Nation at least once a month, even if it is just for five minutes.

People want to hear whats on his/her mind and talk to us, the people about ongoing issues, legislations and any other important updates etc. I think some issues are important enough that they should be coming from the horses (pm's) mouth, so to speak. So we are clear where he/she stands.

We elect them so it is their duty to keep us informed, and not just by newspapers, radio, speeches in House of Commons. The Prime minister is the head of the country and he should be able to adress the people without people bitching about it being a waste of money.

CPAC, Newsworld and Newsnet would carry it anyways at no cost to taxpayers.

That's actually a good idea. You should pass it on to Mr. Harper (sorry, I couldn't resist :lol: ).

 

[cub1c]

I know and understand how the Bloc has the power it does,but why is a regional separatist group allowed to be ann official opposition in our government? Their motives are only pursuing their separatist agenda and not on the betterment of our country.

Euh, because they are elected?

Ok, so you're saying we should stop a party that have different views than you from being candidates. WTF

Ok let's have only one party so everybody always agree!

Man, I can't stand federalists.

 

[cub1c]

I like what he said. He apologized, took some of the blame, vowed to fix things, and promised to hold an election once the final report is release.

Do you really think it was possible that he was going to say: f*ck you all...I don't remember what happened...I don't see why I should fix anything...and there will never be any election anymore!

PS: Get real, he didn't wrote a single line himself in this speech.

 

[cub1c]

RE: The Martin "Address"

By the way, how many people still think we will not have an election in June?

Wake up. The machine is started. And there is no turning back.

 

[no1important]

RE: The Martin "Address"

As long as the other party leaders get to speak too, that would be excellent. You can't even hear what they say in the HofC half the time anymore.

That could work. It sounds appealling and as I tax payer I would not mind "paying" for something like that.

I know and understand how the Bloc has the power it does,but why is a regional separatist group allowed to be ann official opposition in our government? Their motives are only pursuing their separatist agenda and not on the betterment of our country.

Well who ever wins the second most seats is the official opposition. Thats the way it is and should be. Just like it was in 1993. (I believe it was 1993 I may be wrong).

Actually it is "something" that a one province federal party could be official opposition but it happened and I respect the rules, even though I thought at the time Preston Manning should of been "official opposition" as he was leading a national party but he never recieved enough seats. So tough titty, I guess.

Actually you know, it could even happen again next time, slim but entirely possible. Especially if Liberals get "beat up bad" in the next election. The libs would have to lose 50-55 seats(I believe they have 121 now but if wrong please correct me) and bloc sweep Quebec and it could very well happen, if the electorate is that mad at Liberals.