Did anybody else watch that self-serving crap that Martin pushed out on his address to the nation? That was a complete abuse of his power, to represent this as a response to a national crisis - yeah right! This was completely self serving and completely partisan. Boooo
The Martin "Address" to the Nation
- Thread starter MMMike
- Start date
As Stephen Harper correctly put it, "A prime minister should not be addressing the population on this partisan issue, but rather on the concerns and challenges with which we are confronted: the health care system, international trade, agriculture, the fiscal imbalance, safer communities, stronger families, and a cleaner environment."
Bring on the election. I damn near run out of tissue watching Martin humiliate himself. He's sorry, it happened on the Liberal watch, he was second in command, he should have been more vigilant, but we should all wait until a federally appointed judge makes a report at some vague future date. What I did not hear was Martin saying that he would stop the group of Liberals who are going to court to try and stop the inquiry from having results. Get the Lieberals out of here now while Canada still has some vestige of self respect left on the world stage. All Martin did tonight was have the first campaign speech, and all three other leaders were much, much better. Adios, Paul, either you were a component of scandal, or you were incompetent if you actually did not know anything. Either way, you lose, pal. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!
While I'd agree with the general sentiments expressed by posters in here so far, that statement needs correction. The Sponsorship Program was Chretien's baby and was run by friends of his, which Martin definitely was not, with oversight from the PMO. Knowing how official Ottawa operates and given the mutual suspicion between Chretien and Martin, it's at least credible that Martin, even as Finance Minister, could have been kept entirely out of the loop if that's how the PM wanted it. And he probably did. Did you catch his appearance at the Gomery inquiry? He thinks he saved the country and expects full credit for it. Arrogant little twit...
That doesn't excuse anything, of course, but nothing critical really hinges on it anyway, it's the old Liberal arrogance that's brought them down, as it has before. In fact that's what's brought them down every time they've lost an election in the last 50 years.
Paul Martin is much stupider than I had given him credit for.
If he believes that he is going to stem Liberal bloodflow go to tell the nation that
a) the Liberals are indeed corrupt to the core
b) he is sorry for it
c) the best course of action is to allow them to maintain their grip on power for the rest of the year
then, this election will be much more enjoyable for the Conservatives than I would have imagined.
By making a promise that he will call an election, he has made an election imminent. Now, whether it happens 2 months from now or 8 months from now, the Canadian people are going to have to brace for one.
They might as well get it over with at the end of June.
And, in giving his speech on national television, he also opened the door for all THREE opposition leaders to pound the Liberals in their rebuttals. In using a rare Prime Minister's national address to discuss purely political manners, he reeked of desperation.
June 27 is going to come very quickly for him.
If he believes that he is going to stem Liberal bloodflow go to tell the nation that
a) the Liberals are indeed corrupt to the core
b) he is sorry for it
c) the best course of action is to allow them to maintain their grip on power for the rest of the year
then, this election will be much more enjoyable for the Conservatives than I would have imagined.
By making a promise that he will call an election, he has made an election imminent. Now, whether it happens 2 months from now or 8 months from now, the Canadian people are going to have to brace for one.
They might as well get it over with at the end of June.
And, in giving his speech on national television, he also opened the door for all THREE opposition leaders to pound the Liberals in their rebuttals. In using a rare Prime Minister's national address to discuss purely political manners, he reeked of desperation.
June 27 is going to come very quickly for him.
RE: The Martin "Address"
Holy bat sh*t, I thought I was partisan. You guys are like rabid skunks.
Martin tried a Hail Mary pass tonight. It just might work too...the man on the street reaction on TV has been mixed. We'll know next week when the polls come out.
There will still be an election on June 27. The only thing that change that is if Martin makes concessions to Layton on the corporate tax cuts in the budget. There is no sign that's going to happen. Even if Martin makes the concessions it will be very tight as to whether the NDP have the seats to hold things together.
Anyway, Martin did a good job in his first election speech in almost a year. He looked haggard and contrite. He listed everything that he did in regard to sponsorship, including shutting down the program. He played to all of the polls, which indicate that Canadians want to wait for an election.
Harper came off as being arrogant and unstatesman-like to anybody who is worried about him. He spun out the same old lines. He also, in the little bit of policy he mentioned, seemed to back away from Kyoto again. He flip-flopped before when he said he would honour the agreement, but tonight he mentioned every kind of pollution except greenhouse gas.
Harper looked like he was making an election speech to a partisan crowd in downtown Calgary, not to an Ontario audience that's nervous about him.
Duceppe played to his Quebec separatists. That's good. That's his job.
Layton reiterated his earlier budget offer and said he'd like to wait on Gomery. That's important because because his vote against the budget (which Harper keeps bringing up to try to avoid any backlash for bringing the government down landing on the Conservatives) is based on issues, not scandal. It matches the message that the NDP want government to be effective.
Layton also played very much to the Ontario audience, where the seats are.
Who's going to benefit? We'll see. Harper is going to have to get on an Ontario message if he wants to win seats though. Right now the only bet I'd take would be 100 to 1 for Duceppe becoming the next PM...everything else is too screwed up to call.
Holy bat sh*t, I thought I was partisan. You guys are like rabid skunks.
Martin tried a Hail Mary pass tonight. It just might work too...the man on the street reaction on TV has been mixed. We'll know next week when the polls come out.
There will still be an election on June 27. The only thing that change that is if Martin makes concessions to Layton on the corporate tax cuts in the budget. There is no sign that's going to happen. Even if Martin makes the concessions it will be very tight as to whether the NDP have the seats to hold things together.
Anyway, Martin did a good job in his first election speech in almost a year. He looked haggard and contrite. He listed everything that he did in regard to sponsorship, including shutting down the program. He played to all of the polls, which indicate that Canadians want to wait for an election.
Harper came off as being arrogant and unstatesman-like to anybody who is worried about him. He spun out the same old lines. He also, in the little bit of policy he mentioned, seemed to back away from Kyoto again. He flip-flopped before when he said he would honour the agreement, but tonight he mentioned every kind of pollution except greenhouse gas.
Harper looked like he was making an election speech to a partisan crowd in downtown Calgary, not to an Ontario audience that's nervous about him.
Duceppe played to his Quebec separatists. That's good. That's his job.
Layton reiterated his earlier budget offer and said he'd like to wait on Gomery. That's important because because his vote against the budget (which Harper keeps bringing up to try to avoid any backlash for bringing the government down landing on the Conservatives) is based on issues, not scandal. It matches the message that the NDP want government to be effective.
Layton also played very much to the Ontario audience, where the seats are.
Who's going to benefit? We'll see. Harper is going to have to get on an Ontario message if he wants to win seats though. Right now the only bet I'd take would be 100 to 1 for Duceppe becoming the next PM...everything else is too screwed up to call.
Let the conservative machine reign down on this country in a furry of rights.
Martin, nice try, you are still a tool. This government really gets to me. As martin said, they should be governing but there are not because of the fact that they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
I say get them out. And it will be nice to campaing in nice warm weather instead of November.
Martin, nice try, you are still a tool. This government really gets to me. As martin said, they should be governing but there are not because of the fact that they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
I say get them out. And it will be nice to campaing in nice warm weather instead of November.
RE: The Martin "Address"
I dunno...our last couple of Mays and Junes have been muddy and ugly. I think I'd prefer a bright and sunny fall. Putting signs up once the ground freezes kind of sucks though.
I'm going to move this thread over to elections where it belongs. We are talking about four election speeches, after all.
I dunno...our last couple of Mays and Junes have been muddy and ugly. I think I'd prefer a bright and sunny fall. Putting signs up once the ground freezes kind of sucks though.
I'm going to move this thread over to elections where it belongs. We are talking about four election speeches, after all.
I enjoyed campaining in June last year. What I would like to see is set election dates (ala USA). This would not give the governing party (if they have a mojority) to call whenever they want.
And, Rev. You NDP???
And, Rev. You NDP???
RE: The Martin "Address"
I am pissed off I missed this. I hope it gets re broadcast again tonight sometime on Newsworld. Usually I do not miss these things.
From what I read at CTV it sounds like Jack Layton had the only sensible response to Martin. He will help pass budget if a few changes are made. That seems reasonable as does a January 2006 election. That seems reasonable as people really do not want an election now.
Plus then we will know 100% what Gomery has to say and we can fairly judge Martin then. I know Martin may of known about scandal but I think Chretien was the main player and Martin was fired from Cabinet, so I am not sure what his involvment really is. So for me personally I would like all the facts before I vote. Even though I will vote NDP reguardless, a person should not be "convicted" before the facts are all out. I want to see full report before I judge.
Personally I don't as we are having a provincial one in about 4 weeks and I can't take much more hot air.
Dam it I should of set vcr..............
I am pissed off I missed this. I hope it gets re broadcast again tonight sometime on Newsworld. Usually I do not miss these things.
From what I read at CTV it sounds like Jack Layton had the only sensible response to Martin. He will help pass budget if a few changes are made. That seems reasonable as does a January 2006 election. That seems reasonable as people really do not want an election now.
Plus then we will know 100% what Gomery has to say and we can fairly judge Martin then. I know Martin may of known about scandal but I think Chretien was the main player and Martin was fired from Cabinet, so I am not sure what his involvment really is. So for me personally I would like all the facts before I vote. Even though I will vote NDP reguardless, a person should not be "convicted" before the facts are all out. I want to see full report before I judge.
Personally I don't as we are having a provincial one in about 4 weeks and I can't take much more hot air.
Dam it I should of set vcr..............
Oh, a little. :wink:
The possible problem with set election dates is that you can end up with US-style never-ending elections. I wouldn't mind them under a system of proportional representation as long as there was no funding allowed by anybody but eleigible voters, but set dates in our current system would be a disaster.
RE: The Martin "Address"
You didn't miss much, No1. The only real news was Martin's offer of calling an election within 30 days of Gomery's final report.
I was surprised that Harper didn't have a better speech. He needs some different handlers. They keep playing to his core supporters, which is a waste of time...they already have those votes.
That's what made Layton's speech so strong. His offer to support the government if they change the budget keeps him on message for governance. When it's taken in the context of giving the money to the provinces it plays well in Ontario without alienating anybody else.
If the Liberals take his offer (doubtful) he looks like a saviour. If they don't take it, or if there's an election anyway, he can pick up seats.
You didn't miss much, No1. The only real news was Martin's offer of calling an election within 30 days of Gomery's final report.
I was surprised that Harper didn't have a better speech. He needs some different handlers. They keep playing to his core supporters, which is a waste of time...they already have those votes.
That's what made Layton's speech so strong. His offer to support the government if they change the budget keeps him on message for governance. When it's taken in the context of giving the money to the provinces it plays well in Ontario without alienating anybody else.
If the Liberals take his offer (doubtful) he looks like a saviour. If they don't take it, or if there's an election anyway, he can pick up seats.
Martin just said general election 30 days after Gomery inquiry. Sounds fair. The idea of having 2 elections in one year is getting us nowhere. The inquiry will be over by August and the report will be out in December. This means a spring election in 2006. I don't want to see the inquiry start from scratch and waste millions more on an election we don't need. I would eat my balot but it is illegal to eat your ballot in a federal election or by-election. Six members of the Edible Ballot Society, a protest group, were charged after the 2000 election under paragraph 167(2)(a) of the Canada Elections Act for wilfully destroying a ballot; two were found not guilty for lack of evidence, and charges against the other four were stayed.
Frankly I am sick of Liberal corruption and this is a crisis of the liberal party brought on by the arrogance of Jean, not Paul. Just like the PC party split with reform after Brian so too the Liberal have two camps as well.
If we end up with an election now we will have Harper in power with the Bloc as the opposition. Might as well lower the flag and put up the stars and stripes and give Quebec to the separatists. Goodbye Canada! Harpers plan for Canadian unity will be a tough love approach to Quebec that will play into the hands of the separatists. Laton doesn't have the electoral gravitas to the voting public and no one in the NDP will so a NDP government is a fairy tale. The liberals may very well be corrupt bastards but they are Canadian corrupt bastards, it's not much of a choice but it really is the only one we have.
Frankly I am sick of Liberal corruption and this is a crisis of the liberal party brought on by the arrogance of Jean, not Paul. Just like the PC party split with reform after Brian so too the Liberal have two camps as well.
If we end up with an election now we will have Harper in power with the Bloc as the opposition. Might as well lower the flag and put up the stars and stripes and give Quebec to the separatists. Goodbye Canada! Harpers plan for Canadian unity will be a tough love approach to Quebec that will play into the hands of the separatists. Laton doesn't have the electoral gravitas to the voting public and no one in the NDP will so a NDP government is a fairy tale. The liberals may very well be corrupt bastards but they are Canadian corrupt bastards, it's not much of a choice but it really is the only one we have.
I know and understand how the Bloc has the power it does,but why is a regional separatist group allowed to be ann official opposition in our government? Their motives are only pursuing their separatist agenda and not on the betterment of our country.
Chretien & his Liberal friends are still trying to shut down the inquiry. A few of the people charged in this scandal are going to trial in June or July, and they are expected to try and shut down Gomery to avoid "tainting" the jury pool. So there is no certainty that Gomery will finish in August, and who knows how long the report will take.
Can't you make up your own mind about what went on? The testimony is rehashed every day on the news and radio, and internet. You can read the testimony online. Come to your own conclusions.
If Martin was so concerned about the voters having all the facts before an election, why did he shut down the Public Accounts Committee investigation into the sponsorship scandal just before going to the polls last spring??
With this scandal the Liberals have done more for Quebec seperatists than anything in a generation. Yeah, Martin will still try and paint the Liberals as the country's last hope, but that hand has been overplayed. The Bloc will take all but a handfull of seats in Quebec, if the election is held this spring or next year.
I think the PM should be able to address the Canadian people anytime he wants. He is the leader of the country, what is wrong with speaking with the nation?
I like what he said. He apologized, took some of the blame, vowed to fix things, and promised to hold an election once the final report is release.
With that being said the address by no means exonerated him from his role in the scandal.
I do not think a snap election will solve matters. How will a Conservative minority government and a possible Bloq opposition help the country?
Let's just wait till Jan or Feb 2006, things can't get worse.
I like what he said. He apologized, took some of the blame, vowed to fix things, and promised to hold an election once the final report is release.
With that being said the address by no means exonerated him from his role in the scandal.
I do not think a snap election will solve matters. How will a Conservative minority government and a possible Bloq opposition help the country?
Let's just wait till Jan or Feb 2006, things can't get worse.