The Improbability of God

Dexter Sinister

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This is a serious thing, if you consider its implications (although everthing God creates is marvelous.)
No, I don't think it's serious, I think it's trivial, nor do I think everything you'll claim god creates is marvelous. It's blindingly obvious that tents need poles to hold them up, for instance, and the sky doesn't, and there are perfectly satisfactory naturalistic explanations for that. As for the marvelous nature of everything god has created... well, walk through a children's cancer ward some time and explain how that's marvelous. What you'll see there makes no sense in the context of an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent deity running things, the suffering of the innocents is one of the things no religion has ever been able to make any sense of, but it's readily explicable if you assume only natural processes are at work.

I don't believe you have a clue about reality, you're lost in pre-mediaeval superstition. Wake up and look around, things are not as you believe they are. There's no god, there's no heaven, there's no hell, there are no angels or demons, the Bible and the Quran are mythology, it's all an invention of human imagination.
 

SirJosephPorter

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This is a serious thing, if you consider its implications (although everthing God creates is marvelous.)

Eanassir, religion a serious thing? Get real, it is about as serious as Santa Claus or Easter Bunny.

The only reason it may be a serious thing is all the evil perpetrated in the name of religion (Crusades, Inquisition, 9/11 terrorist attacks, stoning women to death for adultery, honour killings etc.).
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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The god du jour for Tiw'sDay, March, 17.
The Anglo-saxon god Tiw or Norse god Tyr is the god of war, as was Mars in the Roman pantheon. Today is mardi or mars-day in French.
The west Slavic god of war is Svanovit.
 

eanassir

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No, I don't think it's serious, I think it's trivial, nor do I think everything you'll claim god creates is marvelous. It's blindingly obvious that tents need poles to hold them up, for instance, and the sky doesn't, and there are perfectly satisfactory naturalistic explanations for that.


What's this Dexter!? You are supposed to have a scientific mind and to seek after the truth! Then what's this answer?

When I told you about this ayah, in fact there is no mentioning of any tent: only He told that He lifted up the sky or the firmament without any pillars that they see.

The explanation of this is that God simulated it to their "hair-house" which is the portable house of the Bedwin Arabs made from the goat hair: they use it like the big tent, and erect it in the manner explained.

So see about this ayah at this link:

universeandquran.t35.com/#A_Conversation_with_the_Author
Then go to Question 2 and its answer there.

Moreover, I told you why it has a serious implication:

Because if the gases of the upper atmosphere come down, and mix with constituents of the air at the ground level, then such gases will be harmful: suffocating and poisonous.
And this will take place in the future close to Doomsday; exactly when the earth will slow down then will stop its axial rotation.

As is the case now on Venus.
solarsystem.nasa.gov/multimedia/gallery/Venus_Clouds.jpg
 
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Dexter Sinister

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What's this Dexter!? You are supposed to have a scientific mind and to seek after the truth! Then what's this answer?
When I told you about this ayah, in fact there is no mentioning of any tent: only He told that He lifted up the sky or the firmament without any pillars that they see.​
Grasping at straws, as usual. I know the ayah said nothing about a tent, you're the one who brought the tent into the explanation. And I see you still haven't accepted the simple observable fact that Venus has not stopped its axial rotation. That's what happens when you rely on a 1400 year old book as the ultimate authority on all matters: your grip on reality slips.
 

eanassir

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As for the marvelous nature of everything god has created... well, walk through a children's cancer ward some time and explain how that's marvelous. What you'll see there makes no sense in the context of an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent deity running things, the suffering of the innocents is one of the things no religion has ever been able to make any sense of, but it's readily explicable if you assume only natural processes are at work.

Everyone should enjoy God's amazing and wonderful Tuberculosis.



The children cancer and the tuberculosis


About the diseases of children and people in general, at which some cry and weep because of their kindness and sadness for humanity; it is only a pretext to their purpose.

It is known that man passes through many stages during his life: embryonic stages of development, then birth, then becoming a mature man, then becoming an elderly, some die before this, while others become dementic to forget all his knowledge, then all people die –– this obviously demonstrates the might of God – be glorified – even though the atheist may deny this. [This has been explained in an aya 22: 3-5 in a previous reply in this thread.]

And all people die, without exception; then if God had wanted it, He would have made them live here forever and do not die.

This is because the life in the World is only temporary and trivial in comparison to the next ethereal or spiritual life that will follow death.

The material body is essential for forming the soul without which it will not be formed; the body is a mould for forming the soul; material objects are moulds for forming the ethereal structures, which are the copy of every material object.
man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Matter_and_the_Ether_

The material World is like a school where man will acquire some experiences and pass some examination and checking and train himself to good or bad conduct according to his free will.

As God – be glorified – said in the Quran 21: 35

كُلُّ نَفْسٍ ذَائِقَةُ الْمَوْتِ وَنَبْلُوكُم بِالشَّرِّ وَالْخَيْرِ فِتْنَةً وَإِلَيْنَا تُرْجَعُونَ

The explanation:
(Every soul shall taste [of the pain] of death [in order to be transmitted to the ethereal spiritual world].

And We try you [in the life of the World] with evil and good for a testing.

Then to Us [: to the ethereal afterlife] you shall be returned [to live forever as ethereal souls].)



I don't believe you have a clue about reality, you're lost in pre-mediaeval superstition. Wake up and look around, things are not as you believe they are. There's no god, there's no heaven, there's no hell, there are no angels or demons, the Bible and the Quran are mythology, it's all an invention of human imagination.


This you only assert to yourself, which is only to convince yourself that you are correct; but in fact the falsehood can never be the truth whatever expression you may give. God is the Creator Who will bring all men to the next afterlife and all atheists cannot obsitnately refuse it and stay here.

As God said in the Quran 6: 61

و هُوَ القاهِرُ فَوْقَ عِبادِهِ ، و يُرْسِلُ عَلَيْكُمْ حَفَظَةً ، حَتَّى إذا جاءَ أحَدَكُمُ الْمَوْتُ تَوَفَّتْهُ رُسُلُنا وَ هُمْ لا يُفَرِّطُون

The explanation:
(He is the Omnipotent, Superior to His servants' [oppression];
He sends over you [angels as] recorders [of your acts and words],
until when death comes to anyone of you, Our messengers [: the recorders] take him through death,
and they neglect not deal accordingly [with anyone.] )

The interpretation:
v (Our messengers [: the recorders] take him through death) means: the recording angels will take him away [through death.] They are those whom He sent as indicated by the phrase: (He sends over you [angels as] recorders [of your acts and words] )
v (and they neglect not to deal accordingly [with anyone.] ) means: They do not mismanage him: if he is righteous, they will treat him well, and if he is bad, they will treat him with neglect and leave him be.
man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Angel_of_Death_
 
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talloola

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The religious had to make up silly stories about afterlife because they're 'afraid' to
face reality, as reality is so simple and just like all of the other animals on this
earth, we have come from the earth and we will return to the earth in death, and
that is it, just face that fact, but of course making up stories of how we will go
somewhere else, makes this life much easier, and you can die thinking it is not the
end, live in a fantasy world, and maybe that is good therapy for many, takes away
some of the fear they might have otherwise.
It is a very brave and realistic journey when one realizes that we are of the earth
and will return to the earth, just like all of our animal friends, and that is it, and
we will leave ourselves 'in' our children, to carry on.
It is easy to realize how the people of long long ago, imagined all sorts of different
things, they had big imaginations, big fears, but very little in the way of learned
technologies and the realities of how the natural happenings go about their
business on this earth, we know so much more now, and we will know that much
more, hundreds of years from now, it all makes sense, falls into place with
reality, is very easy to understand, and interesting to learn, and I am not going
to base my beliefs on some uneducated and unlearned nomads of long ago, who
thought everything that happened in their lives were caused from gods and
miracles and heavinly punishments and rules sent down from the clouds, etc.
They were afraid, cause they didn't know any better, and made up stories to
settle their fears.
 

VanIsle

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The god du jour for Tiw'sDay, March, 17.
The Anglo-saxon god Tiw or Norse god Tyr is the god of war, as was Mars in the Roman pantheon. Today is mardi or mars-day in French.
The west Slavic god of war is Svanovit.
What about Ares?
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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So many gods; so few days of the week!
Or even days of the year. I've seen lists of over 3500 gods humanity has invented, almost one a day for a decade, and I'm sure it's not even close to being complete. I doubt you'll ever run out. And if you do, you can make up your own as part of the time-honoured tradition of inventing deities to explain things we don't understand.

And thanks for sharing that powerful "We Rise Again" video, I found it very moving. Anne Murray, Rita McNeil, Men of the Deep, The Rankin Family... good stuff. My wife and I have recently set loose our two children upon the world, one's doing post-graduate studies at the University of Edinburgh, the other's a naval officer. Our kids are serious butt-kickers, I think they're going to make a positive difference, and I am immensely proud of and pleased with them. Our values live on through them.

And they're both atheists.
 
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L Gilbert

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lol It's occured to me that Islam is a very primitive faith. Or at least eannasir's version of it is. I can imagine if he were Christian he'd be as advanced and pleasant a man as Diego Deza.
Anyway, given the amount of substantiated evidence for the existence of such creatures, I'd suggest the probability of their existences is about 0%. Eannasir, it doesn't count as evidence if I say I am the tooth faerie and because I said it, it's true.
lmao
 
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eanassir

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Monotheism and idolatry (or polytheism)

Some of atheists mix the idols which were invented by people with God Almighty and Creator [claiming that God is an invented idea just like the stony idols], and they mix the religion of the idolatry with the monotheism: the true religion of God.

The religion of God brought by the apostles, from the time of Adam then Noah and till now; such religion of God was essentially directed against the idolatry and the association with God.

This is in the Quran 12: 39: 40 about the words of Prophet Joseph son of Jacob:
يَا صَاحِبَيِ السِّجْنِ أَأَرْبَابٌ مُّتَفَرِّقُونَ خَيْرٌ أَمِ اللّهُ الْوَاحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ . مَا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِهِ إِلاَّ أَسْمَاء سَمَّيْتُمُوهَا أَنتُمْ وَآبَآؤُكُم مَّا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ بِهَا مِن سُلْطَانٍ إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلاَّ لِلّهِ أَمَرَ أَلاَّ تَعْبُدُواْ إِلاَّ إِيَّاهُ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ
The explanation:
"O my two fellow-prisoners, which is better: many differing lords [or gods] or God: the One, the Omnipotent?"
"Apart from Him, you worship none other than names you have named, you and your fathers, concerning which God has not sent down any authority
[: He did not command that in any heavenly book, but people invented such idols].

The decision is up to God only. He has commanded that none other than He should be worshipped.

That is the religion of [Jacob] the guardian [on his sons and family], but most of people do not know [the truth.]"


man-after-death.t35.com
quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
 

eanassir

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The Worldly life is not the terminal


Some atheists think that they will die and become dust and that's all. So they will die, then their children will live instead of them; so they will live by their children, and their energy will be transmitted to their offspring.

To this illusion of course they haven't any proof, but only their guessing and wishing and desiring that this subject will be as such; so that there will be no spiritual life to follow the death, and everything will end, and they will therefore escape with their sins and transgressions on people and oppression of themselves and others.

This is in the Quran 45: 24

وَقَالُوا مَا هِيَ إِلَّا حَيَاتُنَا الدُّنْيَا نَمُوتُ وَنَحْيَا وَمَا يُهْلِكُنَا إِلَّا الدَّهْرُ وَمَا لَهُم بِذَلِكَ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا يَظُنُّونَ

The explanation:
(They say: "There is nothing but our [present] Worldly life:

we die and our [children] live,

and nothing but Time [factors] destroy us."

Of that they have no knowledge, they merely conjecture.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I say to them: every man is a unique individual personality; each man is a separate entity. They are certainly different persons than their children, and their children are different from them.

E.g. if the father commits a crime, will the judge punish the son instead of the father? Or in case the adult son commits an offense, will the judge deal with his father instead of him?

So every individual is responsible about his own crimes (and his good work).

Moreover, there is a certain limited threshold that man may forbear concerning any difficulty; so if the father is brought to judgment for a crime of murder, will his children suffer the punishment for the behalf of their father, and in stead of him?

Another point: if man disappears from existence by his death (as do some atheists claim), what benefit for him that his children and all people that are on earth will live and will be happy or not happy?

And if he suffers the punishment in the afterlife, will it avail him anything that his children are happy and prosperous or are in misery and wretchedness?

Of course the father and children wish every good for each other, but if any of them suffers a severe and intolerable chastisement, will it avail them that all people on earth will be happy or wretched?

This is in the Quran 31: 33

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُوا رَبَّكُمْ وَاخْشَوْا يَوْمًا لَّا يَجْزِي وَالِدٌ عَن وَلَدِهِ وَلَا مَوْلُودٌ هُوَ جَازٍ عَن وَالِدِهِ شَيْئًا إِنَّ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقٌّ فَلَا تَغُرَّنَّكُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا وَلَا يَغُرَّنَّكُم بِاللَّهِ الْغَرُورُ

The explanation:
(O mankind, safeguard [yourselves] against [the punishment of] your Lord,
and fear [the punishment of] a day when no parent can avail anything for his begotten [son or daughter], nor can any begotten [son or daughter] avail anything for his parent;
surely the promise of God [about the judgment, the punishment and the reward] is true;
so let not the Worldly life deceive you [with its ornamentation, and so divert you from celebrating God],
nor let [Satan:] the deceiver deceive you to [disobey] God.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
And in another aya 80: 34-37

يَوْمَ يَفِرُّ الْمَرْءُ مِنْ أَخِيهِ . وَأُمِّهِ وَأَبِيهِ . وَصَاحِبَتِهِ وَبَنِيهِ . لِكُلِّ امْرِئٍ مِّنْهُمْ يَوْمَئِذٍ شَأْنٌ يُغْنِيهِ

The explanation:
(On the day when man shall flee from his brother [when this has been sentenced to Hell], his mother and his father, his wife and his sons;

Every man, that day, will have concern enough to make him heedless [of others.] )
--------------------------------------------------------
It means: they flee from each other because of the severity of the chastisement and punishment, not because they do not love their family members or they do not know them.

Then let everyone asks himself and his conscience: do you think that when you say: "I am" you mean your flesh and bones or your soul that is inside your body and your true identity?

However, guidance is only up to God alone, as in this ayah 10: 101

قُلِ انظُرُواْ مَاذَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَمَا تُغْنِي الآيَاتُ وَالنُّذُرُ عَن قَوْمٍ لاَّ يُؤْمِنُونَ

The explanation:
(Say [O Mohammed to those who have demanded a miracle from you]:
"Look at [the wonders] that are in the heavens and the earth!
But neither miracles nor warners avail a people who do not believe [in God and in His messenger.]")

universeandquran.t35.com
man-after-death.t35.com
 
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