The devotion to God alone

[eanassir]

Superstition started at the dawn of the beginning of humans.

This is what they taught you in the school; and of course there were the blasphemy and disbelief together with the belief and monotheism.

If there were gods and gremlins in the first place, and if this god had any brains it would have imprinted everyone with its message from the beginning instead of sending some slow moving apostle to spread messages in the hopes that the messenger could get the message everywhere and to everyone on the planet in a timely manner.

This will be like the bee community; and He did not want to guide every body, but God chooses whom He like to guide and let the others: the wrong-doers prey for Satan and his devils.

Well, Muhammad failed, so the Quran is wrong and Allah failed.

Of course your mistake is so obvious; for God is All-Victorious and His apostle Mohammed and His religion against the atheism and idolatry and association. And Allah does not fail; and now I don't see some of the members here who boasted with their well being and prosperity in the life of the World. And you will soon follow them.​

 

[darkbeaver]

Well, the archaeological evidence doesn't back up 40,000 years. I prefer to stick to the evidence. But, you have the point exactly right. The parameters of being on record for having religion are quite wide.

There are many digs in North and South America that say otherwise, the last one I read about says fifty thousand, however if you wish to continue with the colonialist interpretation of our history, fine. If anyone walked a bridge of ice to the continent they were met by those who traveled by sea eons before.


Science Daily 2004: New Evidence Puts Man In North America 50,000 Years Ago.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041118104010.htm
ScienceDaily (Nov. 18, 2004) — Radiocarbon tests of carbonized plant remains where artifacts were unearthed last May along the Savannah River in Allendale County by University of South Carolina archaeologist Dr. Albert Goodyear indicate that the sediments containing these artifacts are at least 50,000 years old, meaning that humans inhabited North American long before the last ice age.

The findings are significant because they suggest that humans inhabited North America well before the last ice age more than 20,000 years ago, a potentially explosive revelation in American archaeology.

 

[AnnaG]

The believers received the message while the disbelievers were blind to it.

Perhaps. But no-one here saw any sign of Muhammud 1400 years ago. There weren't any Christians here 1400 years ago either. As far as I know, Muhammud never even delivered a message to North Americans whether there were believers or not. So much for sending messengers, even the mail systems are faster than that and they are slow and not terribly reliable.

 

[AnnaG]

This is what they taught you in the school; and of course there were the blasphemy and disbelief together with the belief and monotheism.​

They didn't teach me that in school and I doubt that they taught Les that, too. I've seen it with my own eyes. People are scared of the unknown and if they here a noise in the shadows that is unfamiliar, the first thing they leap to is monsters and gods. But even if that is taught in school, I'd still put more credibility to it than flights of fantasy in Qurans and Bibles because at least stuff taught in schools is backed up by real evidence and not just cheap talk in a book.

This will be like the bee community; and He did not want to guide every body, but God chooses whom He like to guide and let the others: the wrong-doers prey for Satan and his devils.

Then the bugger isn't much of a god.

Of course your mistake is so obvious; for God is All-Victorious and His apostle Mohammed and His religion against the atheism and idolatry and association. And Allah does not fail; and now I don't see some of the members here who boasted with their well being and prosperity in the life of the World. And you will soon follow them.

That's a load of dromedary dung. Gods don't give a whit about humans.

 

[AnnaG]

There are many digs in North and South America that say otherwise, the last one I read about says fifty thousand, however if you wish to continue with the colonialist interpretation of our history, fine. If anyone walked a bridge of ice to the continent they were met by those who traveled by sea eons before.

My ancestors people have only been here for about 12,000 years. Other peoples have been here before that. Apparently you didn't read what I said or if you did the smoke from your pot obscured you vision a bit.

Science Daily 2004: New Evidence Puts Man In North America 50,000 Years Ago.
New Evidence Puts Man In North America 50,000 Years Ago
ScienceDaily (Nov. 18, 2004) — Radiocarbon tests of carbonized plant remains where artifacts were unearthed last May along the Savannah River in Allendale County by University of South Carolina archaeologist Dr. Albert Goodyear indicate that the sediments containing these artifacts are at least 50,000 years old, meaning that humans inhabited North American long before the last ice age.

The findings are significant because they suggest that humans inhabited North America well before the last ice age more than 20,000 years ago, a potentially explosive revelation in American archaeology.

:roll: Ya think? They weren't my ancestors. I'm Anishinaabe, Beaver. The Clovis people came from what is now northern France. I think my people are more Asian than European.

 

[Cliffy]

Interesting Anna. I was under the impression the Clovis site was in Asia and is actually younger than the Clovis sites in the southern US. Could you link me to that info? I would like to correct my book. Also, I thought DNA testing showed more of a European influence in the east.

 

[Cliffy]

They didn't teach me that in school and I doubt that they taught Les that, too. I've seen it with my own eyes. People are scared of the unknown and if they here a noise in the shadows that is unfamiliar, the first thing they leap to is monsters and gods. But even if that is taught in school, I'd still put more credibility to it than flights of fantasy in Qurans and Bibles because at least stuff taught in schools is backed up by real evidence and not just cheap talk in a book.
​

​

Like eanassir says, the word was given to all people in a language they could understand. Just because he doesn't understand your language or mythology doesn't mean what your people had was any less divinely inspired. In fact from all I've studied, it was probably superior as it was not bastardized by religious power mongers.

Of course I could not study all the various cultures of the Americas, but what I do know makes a whole lot more sense than the petty tyrant the middle eastern religions try to peddle. The origines of most mythologies were meant to be allegories and metaphors for life. Somehow the stuff that came out of the middle east was coopted for political reasons. Now you got nut jobs running around saying Aesops Fables are the litteral truth and historical fact.

 

[eanassir]

They didn't teach me that in school and I doubt that they taught Les that, too. I've seen it with my own eyes. People are scared of the unknown and if they here a noise in the shadows that is unfamiliar, the first thing they leap to is monsters and gods. But even if that is taught in school, I'd still put more credibility to it than flights of fantasy in Qurans and Bibles because at least stuff taught in schools is backed up by real evidence and not just cheap talk in a book.​

Then the bugger isn't much of a god.​

That's a load of dromedary dung. Gods don't give a whit about humans.

The polytheism and idolatry is falsehood

• 
  In case it is true as you say: that your ancestors speak about gods and not the One God the Creator, then you and your ancestors are in extreme error of the polytheism and idolatry.

As in the Quran 21: 54

قَالَ لَقَدْ كُنتُمْ أَنتُمْ وَآبَاؤُكُمْ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ​

The explanation:
(When he [Abraham] said to his father and his people: What are such statues that you are cleaving to?
They said: We found our fathers serving them.
[Abraham] said: Then assuredlyyou and your fathers have been in manifest error [away from the truth.])

• 
  And if you say: God does not pay attention to man whom He created, then this is another error.

As in the Quran 23: 115

أَفَحَسِبْتُمْ أَنَّمَا خَلَقْنَاكُمْ عَبَثًا وَأَنَّكُمْ إِلَيْنَا لَا تُرْجَعُونَ​

The explanation:
([It will be said to them in the afterlife]: Did you think that We created you aimlessly, and that you would not return to Us!?
Then exalted be God, the King, the True One: there is no god but He, the Lord of the Precious Throne.
Anyone who prays to another god besides God, without evidence to [his claim], surely will have his punishment from his Lord [in the afterlife]; for surely unbelievers will not succeed.)
Quran Interpretation

 

[eanassir]

Perhaps. But no-one here saw any sign of Muhammud 1400 years ago. There weren't any Christians here 1400 years ago either. As far as I know, Muhammud never even delivered a message to North Americans whether there were believers or not. So much for sending messengers, even the mail systems are faster than that and they are slow and not terribly reliable.

The Quran is for all mankind

The Islam preaching – at the start of Mohammed’s mission – was concerning only the tribe of Quraish, but not all the inhabitants of the earth as a whole.

God - be exalted - said in the Quran 26: 214

وَأَنذِرْ عَشِيرَتَكَ الْأَقْرَبِينَ​

The explanation:
(And [O Mohammed] warn [about that] your tribe of near kindred.)

Then God –be exalted – said in the Quran 6: 92

لِتُنذِرَ أُمَّ الْقُرَى وَمَنْ حَوْلَهَا​

The explanation:
(That [you, Mohammed,] may warn the capital of the cities [: Mecca] and those [dwelling] round about it.)

The indication that the address was to the Meccan people is His saying – be exalted – in the Quran 9: 128

لَقَدْ جَاءكُمْ رَسُولٌ مِّنْ أَنفُسِكُمْ ​

The explanation:
([Now] there has come to you an apostle: being one of you.)

It means: Mohammed is one of your tribesmen who speaks your language, and dwells with you in your town; then why do you reject his preaching, while – actually – you know him very well to be ‘the truthful’ and ‘the honest’?

Therefore, when God - be exalted – addresses the Meccans, then He may say: O people! While when He addresses the inhabitants of Medina, then He says: O believers!

Afterwards, the addressing concerned all the inhabitants of the Hijaz [in Saudi Arabia], then all the Islamic countries, while nowadays it is a warning to all mankind all over the world.

As in the Quran 25: 1​

تَبَارَكَ الَّذِي نَزَّلَ الْفُرْقَانَ عَلَى عَبْدِهِ لِيَكُونَ لِلْعَالَمِينَ نَذِيرًا​

The explanation:

(Blessed be [the glory of] Him Who has sent down the 'Furqan' [: the sundry or sporadic revelations of the Quran] onto His servant [: Mohammed] that he may become a warner to the worlds.)

http://www.quran-ayat.com/u/new_page_2.htm#Question_34

​

 

[eanassir]

Perhaps. But no-one here saw any sign of Muhammud 1400 years ago. There weren't any Christians here 1400 years ago either. As far as I know, Muhammud never even delivered a message to North Americans whether there were believers or not. So much for sending messengers, even the mail systems are faster than that and they are slow and not terribly reliable.

God - be glorified - sent His apostles to all nations and to all generations. Each apostle spoke with his people in their language and he received the revelation with his language.
As in the Quran 35: 24

إِنَّا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ بِالْحَقِّ بَشِيرًا وَنَذِيرًا وَإِن مِّنْ أُمَّةٍ إِلَّا خلَا فِيهَا نَذِيرٌ​

The explanation:
(We have sent you [Mohammed] with the true [religion, as] a bearer of glad tidings and as a warner; and there was not any [past] nation, but a warner [of them] should have passed away therewith.)

Then by time, the message of the apostle will be perverted and distorted, to something like idolatry; so the original message will be lost, while the traditions and common myths will prevail; and this will necessitate sending other apostles or messengers.
Therefore,almost your ancestors are not an exception but the messages had been distorted into idolatry and polytheism; so any man speaking and inviting people to God alone without associate, and to decency and virtue, then he is a true apostle; and anyone who invited people to others besides God then he is a liar.
Then when the following generations come they will find another program other than devotion to God alone, but they will think that God Himself ordered them to follow such traditions.
The Universe and the Quran
An Hour with Ghosts

 

[AnnaG]

Interesting Anna. I was under the impression the Clovis site was in Asia and is actually younger than the Clovis sites in the southern US. Could you link me to that info? I would like to correct my book. Also, I thought DNA testing showed more of a European influence in the east.

lol You're probably right. I probably read somewhere that there were Clovis people in northern France at some point or other and mixed up my info. There's also evidence of them in South America, too.

But the idea that the Clovis people were the ancestors of North and South Americans has been contested. Clovis culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Cliffy]

lol You're probably right. I probably read somewhere that there were Clovis people in northern France at some point or other and mixed up my info. There's also evidence of them in South America, too.

But the idea that the Clovis people were the ancestors of North and South Americans has been contested. Clovis culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, the European connection and the Asian one, it seems to me, were a two way street. The last great migrations after the ice age, or during it via coastal routes, would explain how the sturgeon nosed canoe, indigenous to the Kootenays, is also found in northern Tibet (the only two places on the planet). Also why Clovis sites in Asia are younger than the American ones.

 

[AnnaG]

[/left]
Like eanassir says, the word was given to all people in a language they could understand. Just because he doesn't understand your language or mythology doesn't mean what your people had was any less divinely inspired. In fact from all I've studied, it was probably superior as it was not bastardized by religious power mongers.

Of course I could not study all the various cultures of the Americas, but what I do know makes a whole lot more sense than the petty tyrant the middle eastern religions try to peddle. The origines of most mythologies were meant to be allegories and metaphors for life. Somehow the stuff that came out of the middle east was coopted for political reasons. Now you got nut jobs running around saying Aesops Fables are the litteral truth and historical fact.

Well, it's true that my ancestors had the idea that everything was created by something (Manabhozo), but I have seen no evidence that anyone's idea of "creator" were all the same "creator". In fact, people have always had different gods with different traits. Who is certain that any god is more "valid" than any other?

Anyway, as I said, if I were a god-creator and wanted everyone to have my message, I'd just install my message gene in their DNA and forget about sending messengers scooting about telling everyone my message. It'd be a lot more logical.

 

[AnnaG]

The polytheism and idolatry is falsehood

So says your interpretation of someone else's words, but I say the truth may not be as you sayand you cannot prove me wrong.So any claims by you that polytheism and idolatry is wrong is simply opinion and not backed up by anything other than more opinion. As there are no experts on gods, one opinion about them is no better than any other opinion about them.

 

[AnnaG]

The Quran is for all mankind

​

Then why was the only holy book introduced to my people the Bible? And why did it take so long to get to my people? The Quran didn't get to North America until the 19th century, I think, and it sure as hell wasn't introduced by Mohammud.

 

[AnnaG]

God - be glorified - sent His apostles to all nations and to all generations. Each apostle spoke with his people in their language and he received the revelation with his language.

As I said, my ancestors had their own beliefs and until the Europeans showed up with the Bible only about 350 years ago and the Quran about 150 years ago. And my ancestors had different views about such things from Cherokee, Cree, Dene, Tlingit, Salish, Lakota, Pueblo, etc. You speak nonsense.