The Chip - The Credit Card Chip

[SirJosephPorter]

"Self serve tills" are the "great unemployers"! IP, start a thread, please!
PS to "barney"
Yep, "Women first," I always say!

Spade, I like self service check out. There is hardly any line up at them, I think many people feel uncomfortable with the technology. But I find them very convenient. And of course, it saves the stores a lot of money. Rather than employing six checkers, they can do with one (to supervise the self service tills).

 

[barney]

"Self serve tills" are the "great unemployers"! IP, start a thread, please!

Yeah I personally find it immoral that a store/bank that makes millions in profits is telling me to act as my own cashier/teller so that they can save money on personnel.

Going straight to the bank is more secure and employs people. Besides, if the teller knows you and something goes terribly wrong with the system, they can vouch for you--don't expect an ATM to do that for you. Oh and at my bank there's always a good chance you'll get a hot chick attending you...so added bonus (ATMs on the other hand don't make good dates).

One thing I don't understand why all supermarkets don't have a cash-only lane. It doesn't save them money as far as I can tell and the 1-8 item cashier frequently ends up with a huge lineup because people insist on using the card for a can of soup.

PS to "barney"
Yep, "Women first," I always say!

lol A real gentleman.

 

[VanIsle]

Since I have been gone, 6 self serve tills have been installed. . …It is a pain to have to get people to sign a transaction slip all the time because you would be amazed at how many people use their credit card for groceries.

Islandpacific, when you use the self check out, there is no slip to sign. You have to sign on an electronic pad, and you don’t get a credit card slip. The receipt you get for groceries is your receipt; there is no credit card slip.

Also, with new Pay Pass (my MasterCard has Pay Pass), you don’t even need to sign, you simply tap your card on the Pay Pass and the transaction goes through. You don’t need a pin number, you don’t need to sign. Of course, the flip side is that if you lose the card, others can easily use it.

My Aerogold Visa has a chip (they sent it to me a few months ago) and a pin code, but in most of the places they simply swipe it, same as the old card. I think at one or two places I have had to enter the pin code, but mostly they just swipe it. I assume it will change as more stores install the new machine requiring the pin code.

Swiping your cards means they will have to be replaced more frequently.

Here you are right. I mostly use my Aerogold Visa, since it gives me one (sometimes one and a half) air miles for each dollar I spend. My last card quit halfway in its lifetime and I asked them to send me another. Which they did, promptly (with the same expiration date as before).

I guess I will see how the credit cards work tomorrow. I paid my usual way with debit and it worked the same as any of them do. I don't buy groceries with a credit card. I know many do so they can collect air miles. I have stayed with one credit card and turned down every offer from every other company (I throw it in the trash in other words) and I have declined every offer from MC because I don't want to change what I have. I have paid the same interest rate for years and years (if I need to run a balance which is rare but still important). Just recently they gave a raise to that rate. I have paid 11.40 % for as long as I can remember. On my last bill I see that has been changed to 11.90 which I'm not happy about but it's still far better then most.
I would not own a card that only needs to be tapped. I don't care how careful you are, anyone is capable of losing a card and if you have finished shopping for the day, it's not likely you are going to notice it before the next day. I constantly remind people to take their card. Between concentrating on signing (when necessary) and talking on their cell phone or paying attention to kids etc. they do not take the card from me so I lay it beside them on the counter while they are signing. They still leave it there.
At the self check outs there probably isn't a place to set one down but - a "voice" constantly reminds you to "take your bags or purchase" or whatever the words are which make you feel you must hurry up so the "voice" will stop. In the rush to move those bags, you could mis-place your card. I know you are a self check-out person and I was saddened by that the very first time you told me. My doctor niece tells me they are everywhere in Ontario. BC people, I am one cashier asking you to boycott them.

 

[VanIsle]

Yeah I personally find it immoral that a store/bank that makes millions in profits is telling me to act as my own cashier/teller so that they can save money on personnel.
I expected this might come up as I have also been a teller. Oddly enough, I was in my bank the other day. I was pleasantly surprized to see a line-up! There were several tellers on and the bank was quite busy. However, the line-up moved quickly and I have no idea if it filled up fast behind me. They must be busy or they would not have a good number of tellers on. Either people are not using their debit card at the bank machines (boycott) or they have other business that goes quickly. The fastest transactions are single deposits and withdrawals. Even company deposits don't take that long. I'm glad to see people going into the bank. I think there has been so much hanky panky (theft again - just different way)that people are afraid to use the actual ATM.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I have stayed with one credit card and turned down every offer from every other company (I throw it in the trash in other words)

Islandpacific, I hope you remember to tear up the application before you throw it away. If not, it is possible for somebody to pick it up, get a credit card in your name and steal your identity. I think that is the most common cause of identity theft.

I have paid the same interest rate for years and years (if I need to run a balance which is rare but still important). Just recently they gave a raise to that rate.

We never keep a balance, so I don’t care what interest rates they charge, they may charge 25 % for all I care. I don’t even know how much they charge.

At the self check outs there probably isn't a place to set one down but - a "voice" constantly reminds you to "take your bags or purchase" or whatever the words are

You make a good point here. In addition to reminding to take your bags or purchase, the voice should also remind you to take your credit or debit card.

My doctor niece tells me they are everywhere in Ontario.

Yes, they are quite common here in Ontario, and I find them very convenient.

BC people, I am one cashier asking you to boycott them.

Why?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Oddly enough, I was in my bank the other day. I was pleasantly surprized to see a line-up!

Islandpacific, I don’t have an ATM card (well, I have one, but I never use it), so I always line up at the bank. But I never line up at the supermarket or at Wal-Mart (unless a checkout is empty and I get served right away).

 

[barney]

I remember there was a story in the news about some goofs that placed their cell phone somewhere where its camera could see the ATM number pad--and it apparently worked until someone realized what they were doing. On the occasion where I do use the ATM, I always enter the PIN with my middle finger while the rest of my hand covers the pad so it's difficult for a hidden camera to see which keys I'm pressing (i.e. they'll get confused and think I'm pressing the keys with my index finger).

 

[CanadianLove]

There are bigger things to worry about then the CC Companies.

 

[Spade]

She's a credit to humanity!

 

[barney]

Haaaahahaha (slapping knee so hard it hurts) ... (cough)

 

[miniboss]

SirJosephPorter, I hear you loud and clear. I was in Europe in 2007, and was almost stuck in Monte Carlo, for a night. They had automated train ticket machines at the station, but my regular credit card wouldn't work. I was lucky that I could scrounge up enough change to buy a ticket . I'm going back this year, and hope I get my chip card before then.

 

[givpeaceachance]

Well, my main point is that I don't like the banks and the small, gradual steps they've been taking towards having more and more control of my money. I see the rest of you are completely fine with it which is beyond me. I wonder if that's why there are so many more poor than rich people out there?

 

[givpeaceachance]

It's all B.S. My financial advisor at my bank told me that they are implementing it for security reasons and I know she believes this hook line and sinker, poor thing.

But then you have people like Sir Joseph Porter who says "Also, with new Pay Pass (my MasterCard has Pay Pass), you don’t even need to sign, you simply tap your card on the Pay Pass and the transaction goes through. You don’t need a pin number, you don’t need to sign. Of course, the flip side is that if you lose the card, others can easily use it."

So on one hand you have the banks creating systems for the purpose of security and then literally force this security on it's patrons and on the other hand, they are creating systems that make fraudulently using someone elses bank card easier than before. Go figure . . . If this falls on all our heads, it will be because of all those people who delusionally think that these banker types in the upper crusts of the industry actually have the interests of the public, whom they serve, at heart.

Also, I wonder if anyone has any idea why the banks would want to know what you or I buy, where I go, how much money is in my account? Like they really give a sh*t?! Seriously!! But i'd like to know why other people think this is.

 

[VanIsle]

I have stayed with one credit card and turned down every offer from every other company (I throw it in the trash in other words)

Islandpacific, I hope you remember to tear up the application before you throw it away. If not, it is possible for somebody to pick it up, get a credit card in your name and steal your identity. I think that is the most common cause of identity theft.

I have paid the same interest rate for years and years (if I need to run a balance which is rare but still important). Just recently they gave a raise to that rate.

We never keep a balance, so I don’t care what interest rates they charge, they may charge 25 % for all I care. I don’t even know how much they charge.

At the self check outs there probably isn't a place to set one down but - a "voice" constantly reminds you to "take your bags or purchase" or whatever the words are

You make a good point here. In addition to reminding to take your bags or purchase, the voice should also remind you to take your credit or debit card.

My doctor niece tells me they are everywhere in Ontario.

Yes, they are quite common here in Ontario, and I find them very convenient.

BC people, I am one cashier asking you to boycott them.

Why?

Posts can certainly become "lost" on these forums. Maybe there is too big a break down in topics. This is 2 weeks old and I have never seen it until now. That is one thing on here that I don't care for. I did like that on Can. com we could almost instantly see without really any searching, that someone had made a comment. Oh well.
I hardly remember my post but - here goes. I am on light duties right now so my job over the past couple of weeks has become one of the main people in the area of the self serve tills. It's been quite an interesting experience. A lot of people do not understand that the tills are there mainly in place of the express tills. They roll up with a big cart full of groceries, don't know how to run the till and wonder why they are exasperated. Some get part way through their order and then say "oh - I forgot, I have items that need to be weighed and I cannot come throught this till". Well, yes you can. I'll show you how! Then they need to show me how fast they can be. Gotta love all the mistakes made via that odd need. Then there are the people that put in one or two items and become upset and walk away to go through a cashier instead. If we don't see them leave we are dashing all over the place to see if they skipped out or if they just went to a cashier. More people declare "I'll never use them again" then those who love them. Some people don't want to inter-act with anyone when they come in and they love the tills. Others say they really miss the friendly face behind the till and the little chats they have when they go through. I wish it was easier to put coupons through then it is. They take up time as the process seems to me to be more complicated then necessary but maybe that's just the tills we have or the set up.
There is no need to remind a customer to take their credit card or debit card as there is no where to lay one down. People do lay things like their purses or wallets down but everything is weighed so a voice continues to say there is an unknown item in the bagging area and please remove it. The worst "forget" is money. Bills come out in one area and coins in quite another. The coins are easy to see but the bills come out below the scale and people don't pay attention.
An amazing number of people are boycotting the tills. I see people that are not happy with the fact that we no longer have express tills but they still refuse to use the self serve. Some of the store staff refuses to use them. Eventually, the tills will become so sophisticated that a cashier will not be required. I believe theft is rampant as does the one security person I am familiar with. If every item had to be put in the bagging area there would be less theft but the option is there to skip bagging (for a few things). I think you should only be able to use that feature if the item you have is so big, it cannot be laid on the bagging scale. People try to cheat by holding their produce lightly on the scale and others pay more than they should because they think it is so cute to let their children be the "cashier". The kids lean on the scale as they enter the product code and the parents pay more than they should. I told this to one mother about 4 times one day and finally I just gave up. People do so many stupid things that I can see why they have problems and hate the tills. First rule to anyone - listen to the instructions. Don't assume you instantly know how to run the till. I think I've gotten past most questions now and can quickly fix any problems customers are experiencing. I do use them myself so that I don't have to wait in line. It's faster for me because I don't have to look up codes. Using these tills will put people out of work. Make no mistake about it. It won't happen for awhile but it will happen.

 

[givpeaceachance]

"Using these tills will put people out of work. Make no mistake about it. It won't happen for awhile but it will happen." Island Pacific

See I think that sucks! I can't believe human beings are going to take a back seat to technology. What are we going to do when we are all poor because machines have taken all our jobs and are doing everything for us? And then those that can't afford to be on top of technology will be crushed in it's wake. The rich people and technology. I wonder if this was The Great Society Johnson was talking about in the 60's?

 

[petros]

What are we going to do when we are all poor because machines have taken all our jobs and are doing everything for us?

Hopefully unplug the damn things and enjoy the peace and quiet and spend time with friends and family for once or maybe get to know the neighbours.

 

[givpeaceachance]

Hopefully unplug the damn things and enjoy the peace and quiet and spend time with friends and family for once or maybe get to know the neighbours.

Thank you Petros. And I will be right there to welcome you. Now how do we get everyone else on the same page?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

It's faster for me because I don't have to look up codes.

Islandpacific, my experience is that there is rarely any need to look up a code. Most products have a bar code, which you simply scan. For fruit or vegetable, most of the time they stick little tags bearing the 4 or 5 digit code on the product itself, so you simply enter the code. Other times (say you are buying rolls or muffins), they display the code on the product container and they have pencils available with which you can write the code on the tags.

It is only the odd instance where they don’t put any code on fruits or vegetables that I have to ask the cahier to find the code for me. It happens perhaps once very few weeks. Anyway, if I do pick up such an item (which has no code), I look up the code on the display sign and remember it.

So I rarely have a problem with not knowing the code.

Using these tills will put people out of work. Make no mistake about it. It won't happen for awhile but it will happen.

So what is the problem? Computerization does lead to job losses in the short run, but experience has shown that computerization invariably produced many more jobs that it destroys.

 

[barney]

Computerization does lead to job losses in the short run, but experience has shown that computerization invariably produced many more jobs that it destroys.

Isn't that a contradiction? The whole purpose of computerization/automation is to reduce costs through higher efficiency and...wait for it...downsizing.

The expansion of industry into areas that were not viable/possible before computerization has not outweighed job losses that have resulted from computerization.

For example, take the credit chip: it adds increased security which reduces insurance rates and increases investor confidence (so says the theory). Companies/banks make more money--yay! Benefit to worker? Outside of a few technical support positions...zip.

Actually, computerization has generally given fewer employees a lot more work to do for the same wage. This in turn has resulted in a decrease in quality of service and products, so the client/consumer doesn't really benefit that much either (that's assuming companies reduce prices--if not, then there is zero benefit).

 

[Spade]

Actually, computerization has generally given fewer employees a lot more work to do for the same wage. This in turn has resulted in a decrease in quality of service and products, so the client/consumer doesn't really benefit that much either (that's assuming companies reduce prices--if not, then there is zero benefit).

I am old enough to remember secretaries. Yup! I'd draft a letter, she'd plump it up, and make it pretty when typed.

Now, many "office" workers do their own typing (regrettably). It's called word processing. Good-bye secretary, hello more tasks on those who remain!