Ten Paces then DRAW!

zenfisher

House Member
Sep 12, 2004
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Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

Colpy said:
The point is that these people were the best of citizens. They stepped up to the plate and registered these weapons when asked. Then the government stole them with legislation.

I don't need an assault rifle to hunt deer.

The hanguns banned were any handgun with a barrel length of less than 105mm, and any handgun of.25 or .32 caliber. Silliness. The two calibers are the least powerful of the handgun centrefires. The legal barrel length is set at 105mm, not 100mm, just so the gov't could seize as many handguns as possible, the usual barrel length on a handgun being 4", or 102 mm.

My situation may not be typical, but here it is. I am grandfathered and allowed to own military-style "assault rifles". I do own a high capacity, semi-auto handgun with a barrel length of 108mm. I am NOT permitted to own an old 6 shooter S&W 4" barreled .38, but I carry one every day.

If nothing else, the gun laws need to be changed because they are confusing, complicated, and in many, many cases simply non-sensical.

Do you think that perhaps...children were mistaking smaller caliber hanguns as toys? Do you think that because they are smaller they are easier to conceal ? Is their even the slight possibility that with the shorter barrel they are less accurate and prone to missing their intended target?

So if someone breaks into your home ...while you are on vacation and they steal your .38... How can you report it? Your out the money and another illegal arm is on the street. Aaahh...what a friend to the cops you are.

Everyone assumes that because they are a responsible gun owner...that nothing will ever change. Thieves look for collectors. Once that gun is out of the collector's hands...and hits the Black Market...there is no telling what the gun will be used for.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Ah, Zenfisher, you misunderstand.

I work in armed security. (for an armoured car company)

I am investigated, vetted, licenced and permitted to carry sidearms at work. I am also a licenced firearms instructor, and safe hunting instructor.

Now if someone stole my LEGAL guns I would hesitate to report it, for fear I might be charged, even though they are locked up in compliance with the law.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
He wouldn't be charged, Zen. They would check to make sure that he had a gun safe and that it had been broken into.

I happen to know somebody who was robbed of their guns. It was no big deal...the cops just looked at the safe and said that everything was in order.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Yeah, Rev is basically correct, I didn't state my point very well.

My guns are locked up. However, if I made some minor mistake, say didn't lock a cabinet, left a rifle out to clean after a hunting trip, or whatever, I could NOT report it as I WOULD be charged.

The safe storage legislation is counter-productive. I have heard of a number of cases where people have not reported stolen guns because of their fear of being charged. Remember, most people don't have gun safes, and for them safe storage is a matter of interpretation.

As I have said, were the gov't serious about safe storage, they could have bought EVERY Canadian gun owner a nice $400 gun safe for the 2 Billion bucks they spent on C-68.

Which reminds me.....Rev, you are aware that the Auditor General's report on the gun registry found it to be exceptionally wasteful. Paperwork was not kept on the cash spent, it was the first time ever an audit had to be suspended because the bureaucrats were unhelpful, and the paper trail was non-existent.

She also pointed out the anti-gun owner culture of the people involved, and said much of the waste she found was the result of unnecessary harassment of legitimate gunowners.

Still think the damn thing is worthwhile?

You are in a minority, you know.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
I really don't care what the auditor general said about how the program was run...that's not the issue.

The issue is whether we should have a registry. The auditor general has no business commenting on that in her official capacity. She is not elected and does not make legislation.

I doubt I'm in the minority, but who the hell cares if I am?

Register your guns, quit trying to spin for the Harperites because you aren't very good at it, and accept the fact that your going to lose seats in the next election.

Guns do kill people. That's what they are built for.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

Reverend Blair said:
I really don't care what the auditor general said about how the program was run...that's not the issue.

The issue is whether we should have a registry. The auditor general has no business commenting on that in her official capacity. She is not elected and does not make legislation.

I doubt I'm in the minority, but who the hell cares if I am?

Register your guns, quit trying to spin for the Harperites because you aren't very good at it, and accept the fact that your going to lose seats in the next election.

Guns do kill people. That's what they are built for.

LOSE seats in the general election?

I doubt that.

Don't pay too much attention to your beloved polls, Rev. They are basically useless, especially BEFORE a campaign begins.

If I remember correctly, Kim Campbell was headed for a majority the day the writ dropped in 1993.

Yep. Guns do kill people. So do cars, swimming pools, and Doctors.
In fact Doctors kill 10 times as many people a year in Canada as guns do.

Ah, it is the Auditor General's job to point out how money is wasted. She did not comment on whether we should have a registry.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
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PEI...for now
Yep. Guns do kill people. So do cars, swimming pools, and Doctors. In fact Doctors kill 10 times as many people a year in Canada as guns do.

:roll: Yet none of those are created for the purpose of harm in the first place.

It is primarily accidental if any of those cause a death, rarley intentional.

Guns are created to harm, accidents with them just add more to it.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
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PEI...for now
:lol: Here's an interesting use for firearms.

What would you do after painstakingly setting up 23000 dominos, and then...

Sparrow knocks over 23,000 dominoes before being shot dead in the Netherlands

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A sparrow knocked over 23,000 dominoes in the Netherlands, nearly ruining a world record attempt before it was shot to death Monday, the state news agency reported...More: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2005/11/14/1306865-ap.html
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
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http://www.cbc.ca/north/story/nor_guns20040304.html

An Ontario judge has ruled that Canada's gun registry violates treaty rights of Aboriginal hunters.

Two Ojibwa hunters were charged in 2001 with not having a firearms license, but this week, an Ontario judge acquitted the men on the grounds that Canada's gun law is unconstitutional.

The Ontario judge ruled the men's right to hunt was protected by their treaty even though the men were hunting partridge with unregistered guns on a social hunt and they didn't need the meat to survive.

The judge says Aboriginal people should not be required to have a gun licence, but they should still be on a national registry.

Nunavut Tunngavik is hoping the decision will have the federal government rethinking its gun registry.

NTI says the decision bodes well for a lawsuit it launched against the federal government in 2000. It believes under Nunavut's land claim agreement, Inuit have a right to hunt, trap and fish without a license or fee.

Steven Foulds, a lawyer with Nunavut Tunngavik, says NTI says Inuit should not have to register their guns, but Foulds still thinks the Ontario court case is a good sign.

"I think it will have an impact because it's an indication that courts are taking a very hard look at these issues and are willing to step in to protect harvesting rights," he says. "We're hopeful that this will contribute to an atmosphere where Canada sits down and has serious discussions with Aboriginal peoples."

Last year, a Nunavut court judge ruled Inuit cannot be charged under the federal firearms legislation until NTI can argue its case in court.

NTI Vice-President James Eetoolook is hoping NTI will be able to resolve the issue with the federal government outside of the courtroom.

"We will do whatever we can do to encourage the government of Canada to sit down and talk with us instead of leaving this important issue in the hands of the courts to decide," he says.

The government of Nunavut is also involved in NTI's court case against the federal government. GN lawyer Doug Garson says while the Ontario ruling is good news for Aboriginal people fighting the gun registry, he says it won't be binding when court decisions are made in Nunavut.

Vice-Chief of the Assembly of First Nations Bill Erasmus says northern Aboriginal leaders welcome the ruling because it clarifies the rights of First Nations hunters.

"Many of our people, like myself for example, are employed on a steady basis, but we still like to go out and hunt for ourselves and for our families," he says. "It's clear that we have treaty and Aboriginal rights that are constitutionally- protected."

Erasmus says the ruling didn't surprise him because the case was similar to one won by the Inuit last year. He says both cases suggest that Canadian legislation must acknowledge treaty rights to hunting.

"We've been talking with the federal government over the last little while trying to design a more First Nations-friendly approach to it," he says. "I think we need to be more directly involved in that review to reflect our concerns and bring forward an approach that would make more sense to us."

Erasmus says any new gun laws must also allow for the possibility of aboriginal self-governance, but officials with the federal government say it's too early to comment on the ruling.

Thomas Vares, with the Canadian Firearms Centre says they are considering their options.

"The provincial court has just rendered its decision as of yesterday and we are currently reviewing it to determine what further action is required."

The current Firearms Act gives distinction to subsistence hunters, but it doesn't outline distinct rights for Aboriginal Canadians. The law is currently under review by the Justice department.

The judge ruled that Aboriginal hunters still have to register their guns but they won't have to pay to do so.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
1
38
PEI...for now
The judge ruled that Aboriginal hunters still have to register their guns but they won't have to pay to do so.

That works, otherwise you're opening up a whole new can of worms. Guns up there aren't for sport or collected like some card, they are a necessity. Although there should be stricter rules on their care, Nunavut has the highest suicide rate and easlily accessed guns make it an easy way out.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
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"Two Ojibwa hunters were charged in 2001 with not having a firearms license, but this week, an Ontario judge acquitted the men on the grounds that Canada's gun law is unconstitutional. "
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Jo Canadian said:
The judge ruled that Aboriginal hunters still have to register their guns but they won't have to pay to do so.

That works, otherwise you're opening up a whole new can of worms. Guns up there aren't for sport or collected like some card, they are a necessity. Although there should be stricter rules on their care, Nunavut has the highest suicide rate and easlily accessed guns make it an easy way out.

Ah, Gents.....registration has been free for everybody for quite some time.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
LOSE seats in the general election?

Yup.

Don't pay too much attention to your beloved polls, Rev. They are basically useless, especially BEFORE a campaign begins.

Campaign? You guys are so politically inept that what you do can hardly be called campaigning. Remember last time out? Beating gay protestors, refusing to show up at town halls, rednecks rambling on about homosexuality being a disease.... Let's face it, you got fewer votes than the PCs and Alliance did the election before and the only reason you did as well as you did is because people are tired of the Liberals.

Harper's vast silent majority doesn't exist. It's a pipe dream...I'm not sure if Harper smokes opium or Crack, or maybe he's a methhead...but his political strategy and ability definitely come from something other than clear thinking.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Jo Canadian said:
:lol: Here's an interesting use for firearms.

What would you do after painstakingly setting up 23000 dominos, and then...

Sparrow knocks over 23,000 dominoes before being shot dead in the Netherlands

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A sparrow knocked over 23,000 dominoes in the Netherlands, nearly ruining a world record attempt before it was shot to death Monday, the state news agency reported...More: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2005/11/14/1306865-ap.html

It doesn't stop there....

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/11/16/sparrow051116.html
Animal rights activists in the Netherlands want charges laid in the shooting of a rare sparrow that knocked over 23,000 dominoes as a TV company was setting up for a world-record attempt.

The sparrow, which is on the national endangered list, had flown into an exposition centre on Monday in the northern city of Leeuwarden. After knocking over the dominoes, it was chased into a corner and shot by an exterminator with an air rifle.

"Under Dutch law, you need a permit to kill this kind of bird, and a permit can only be granted when there's a danger to public health or a crop. That was not the case," Dutch animal protection agency spokesman Niels Dorland told the Associated Press.

"I might add: Is it really necessary to kill a bird that knocked over a few dominoes for a game?" he said, adding that the agency plans to bring the case to national prosecutors.

The killing has sparked outrage in the Netherlands.

Death threats have reportedly been made against the man who killed the bird. A Dutch disc jockey has offered a reward of 3,000 euros ($3,500 US) to anyone who topples the dominoes before the official start.

About 100 people with the TV company Endemol NV had spent weeks at the centre setting up more than four million dominoes in an attempt to surpass the official Guinness world record for falling dominoes. The record is 3,992,397.

Endemol spokesman Jeroen van Waardenberg defended the killing of the bird.

"That bird was flying around and knocking over a lot of dominoes," van Waardenberg said. "More than 100 people from 12 countries had worked for more than a month setting them up."

Van Waardenberg added the company may set up a memorial or mention the dead bird during its television broadcast Friday.

But Dorland dismissed Endemol's reason for killing the sparrow.

"I think they were awfully fast to pull out a rifle. If a person started knocking over a few dominoes, they wouldn't shoot him, would they?"


:lol:
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
38
Toronto
That's hilarious, Jay. I say they throw the dead sparrow at the first dominoe to start it off. I wonder if anyone will try to knock the dominoes over?
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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I sure wouldn't do it. Seems awfully dangerous to me!
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
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38
"That bird was flying around and knocking over a lot of dominoes," van Waardenberg said. "More than 100 people from 12 countries had worked for more than a month setting them up."


That just cracks me up everytime I read it....
 

zenfisher

House Member
Sep 12, 2004
2,829
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36
Seattle
This is why....
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/249155_shooting21.html

Regulation and registration is necessary.

More...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002636787_hostage21m.html

He used an assault rifle. Legally he is prohibited from being near firearms. Yet somehow he got a gun.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/249145_shootingscene21.html

You have the legal right to own a gun. No one wants to take that right away from you. Clearly, with this incident, and so many like it, a reasonable thinking being can see the need for registration. In this case even regulation...this was an assault rifle...not target or hunting... We needto prevent idiots like this, from obtaining such dangerous weapons.