Study: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

[Bar Sinister]

The fact is you can't offer irrefutable evidence concerning the creation of the universe.

As for your BS comment about religion rejecting scientific thought, go back through the thread and read the link I provided.

What is your point? It is well known that many members of mainstream religions reject a good deal of their own faith. Keep in mind that Charles Darwin considered himself a Christian even though he knew his research on evolution tore apart the Christian view of the world. I posted a thread to that effect a few weeks ago. And I repeat, I do not have to provide proof of anything. I am not making the claim that the universe and everything in it was created by some supernatural force.

It appears as in many discussions of this type that the debate is drifting off topic. The thread has nothing to do with proving religious or non-religious theories. It is purely about the declining influence of religion in many nations around the world. Those with strong religious beliefs may not like this development, but it is happening nonetheless and attempts to muddy the waters by challenging others to prove gods do not exist are completely irrelevant.

 

[gerryh]

point is dummy, I have dis proven your claim that religion and science are exclusive from each other. The Holy Roman Catholic Church has no problem with evolution, a multi billion year old Universe, multi-verses, or the myriad of theory's and ideas that science comes up with. In actuality, it's the people on the science side of things that seem to have the closed mind.

 

[wotaworry]

Organized religon has caused more suffering and wars than it has prevented.Why in the name of God dont we all leave each others belief systems alone? Providing it doesnt include "Death to the infidel" Speaking as an infidel, according to our radical Muslim brethern.Note the inclusion of the word RADICAL!

 

[Goober]

Organized religon has caused more suffering and wars than it has prevented.Why in the name of God dont we all leave each others belief systems alone? Providing it doesnt include "Death to the infidel" Speaking as an infidel, according to our radical Muslim brethern.Note the inclusion of the word RADICAL!

You blame Religion yet it it the person/ persons involved that have taken their beliefs in ways not intended. So blaming Religion for all the worlds ills is your creative & simplistic view of the world and a complete ignorance of what Religion is.

 

[petros]

Can we keep the cool 500 Gothic Cathedrals?

 

[Goober]

Can we keep the cool 500 Gothic Cathedrals?

Yes....

 

[Avro]

point is dummy, I have dis proven your claim that religion and science are exclusive from each other. The Holy Roman Catholic Church has no problem with evolution, a multi billion year old Universe, multi-verses, or the myriad of theory's and ideas that science comes up with. In actuality, it's the people on the science side of things that seem to have the closed mind.

Ah, there is the tolerance of the faithful coming out again.:roll:

Truth is dummy that the church had had no choice to accept some of the science of our real origins and all you and they have left is that some magic hand sprinkled pixy dust on an atoma and poof here we all are.

You have no proof at all of any deity....none....zero.

Just faith in something you don't even follow to the letter....have fun in hell dummy.:lol:

 

[wotaworry]

In my simplistic view,religion is a man made code of so called ethics.and beliefs instilled in children from the time they are baptized. Apparently They come directly from Gods lips to the sanctified ear of whichever of Gods representatives are open for business.Business being the operative word. Very lucrative it is, judging from all the send your donations.religious programs.
I believe in God.Not the Spanish inquisition variety.The burning of heretics.Why? Their Religion that was given to them directly from God,told them it was necessary So belief yes religion not so much. .

 

[Corduroy]

Religion is just one of many causes of man-made suffering in the world. Not the cause of everything. One could theoretically tally all the reasons for war in record history and find out what is the most common cause. I'd suspect resources, territory and ego would beat out religion.

But to say that religious excuses for violence is using religion for things not intended is absurd. This can only be judged on a case-by-case basis. What does the specific religion say about the violence being done in its name? If that interpretation is heavily disputed, you don't have much ground to stand on.

Take terrorism and Islam for example. 'Mainstream' (read liberal) Islamic scholars are generally against it, but unequivocal opposition to it is rare. Whether or not terrorism is acceptable under certain circumstances is disputed. Unless you're an Islamic scholar yourself and can trust in your own abilities to interpret that text, you really have no ground to say with certainty that terrorism is antithetical to Islam. Most of the time when people come down on either side, they're coming down on the side they want to believe is true. This problem is endemic in religious opinion and evident even in this thread.

Quranic permission for terrorism is disputed in Islam. Some people believe they have this permission explicitly and act on it. They believe they are acting in accordance with their religion and to say they are not is to take on an air of authority in the matter most have no place in claiming.

 

[gerryh]

Quranic permission for terrorism is disputed in Islam. Some people believe they have this permission explicitly and act on it. They believe they are acting in accordance with their religion and to say they are not is to take on an air of authority in the matter most have no place in claiming.

You mean like you do when stating that persons of faith should be taking the Bible literally?

Ah, there is the tolerance of the faithful coming out again.:roll:

Truth is dummy that the church had had no choice to accept some of the science of our real origins and all you and they have left is that some magic hand sprinkled pixy dust on an atoma and poof here we all are.

You have no proof at all of any deity....none....zero.

Just faith in something you don't even follow to the letter....have fun in hell dummy.:lol:

and you have no proof of a hell of a lot of things that you take sciences word for. The beginnings of the universe for one. So your point is what? Your no proof is better than my no proof?

 

[Avro]

and you have no proof of a hell of a lot of things that you take sciences word for. The beginnings of the universe for one. So your point is what? Your no proof is better than my no proof?

I have more proof in my little pinky of the origins of our time than you do in your big fat empty head filled with fairy's a pixie dust.

 

[Goober]

Religion is just one of many causes of man-made suffering in the world. Not the cause of everything. One could theoretically tally all the reasons for war in record history and find out what is the most common cause. I'd suspect resources, territory and ego would beat out religion.

But to say that religious excuses for violence is using religion for things not intended is absurd. This can only be judged on a case-by-case basis. What does the specific religion say about the violence being done in its name? If that interpretation is heavily disputed, you don't have much ground to stand on.

Take terrorism and Islam for example. 'Mainstream' (read liberal) Islamic scholars are generally against it, but unequivocal opposition to it is rare. Whether or not terrorism is acceptable under certain circumstances is disputed. Unless you're an Islamic scholar yourself and can trust in your own abilities to interpret that text, you really have no ground to say with certainty that terrorism is antithetical to Islam. Most of the time when people come down on either side, they're coming down on the side they want to believe is true. This problem is endemic in religious opinion and evident even in this thread.

Quranic permission for terrorism is disputed in Islam. Some people believe they have this permission explicitly and act on it. They believe they are acting in accordance with their religion and to say they are not is to take on an air of authority in the matter most have no place in claiming.

I was of course referring to Christianity - I should have mentioned that but it seemed to be the main course for discussion - If you look to the Anglicans in England to the Protestants in Europe - the wars were either to expand, defend or attack the other faith - The religious beliefs were twisted back then - Hatred was the theme between the various sects - and yes the political leaders along with religious figures debased religion by instilling that hatred. Whether they were done for political purposes and the front man was Religion is up for discussion -
You would also find that while wars were fought over treasure, the new world, spices from Asia/India- religion did play a part - the hatred was a useful tool for the leaders of that time.
But Christianity also went thru a reformation - Perhaps we are seeing the seeds of that very reformation now in Africa/Mid East

 

[gerryh]

I have more proof in my little pinky of the origins of our time than you do in your big fat empty head filled with fairy's a pixie dust.

Sorry, no you don't. If you do, then produce it.

 

[Corduroy]

I would say that we are absolutely seeing the seeds of some kind of Islamic reformation in Africa and the Middle East. Zhou Enlai (former Premier of the PRC) when asked about the impact of the French revolution allegedly replied that it was too soon to tell. Personally, I think that's a bit silly to say of the French revolution, but it seems as though in the past few decades Islam has been undergoing some kind of fundamental upheaval. Being faced with modernism some react with radical medievalism. But we living in our time are in the midst of it. We won't know the result (or even if it's happening) and we certainly won't ever see its far reaching implications, like the French revolution quip.

But since you bring up religious war and reformations, it was the Reformation in Christianity that caused most of the religious based wars in Europe. It didn't take long though for war in Europe to revert back to being about power struggles between kings. It just isn't right to say that religion has been the leading cause of war in the world.

 

[damngrumpy]

The problem is that those of the faithful do not practice what they preach. Religion at
least the main ones out of the Middle East all overlap each other like a game of one
up man ship. The Jews, Christians and Muslims all have the same founding father of
their humble beginnings, Abraham. How nice, if so one cannot be better than the other
for they are all from the same stock.
The case of the Muslims is most puzzling, They come from Abraham who is Jewish,
They in fact have Jesus Christ as their number two prophet, who just happens to be a
Jewish Guy from Bethlehem.
The Jews are waiting for the Messiah to return and the Christians claim he has been here
and gone. Now I don't know for sure but someone sure as hell missed the boat on this
thing and wrote the wrong script for the future. Either that or they found a place for each
others version in their own texts.
I don't think religion will simply disappear in the nine nations of the earth, I think the whole
thing will become a cultural and political issue that could well lead to civil war within nations
themselves. In fact in the Bible there is a passage that reads something like Brother will
turn against brother. I think that will prove to be more like a concentration of civil unrest
over food, water, and religion.
I truly believe there is a hell of a lot of unrest coming, before we find the promised land and
likely we will destroy it before we share it and there in lies the tragedy of it all.
There will always be believers regardless of how much evidence or the lack of it to the
contrary.

 

[Bar Sinister]

point is dummy, I have dis proven your claim that religion and science are exclusive from each other. The Holy Roman Catholic Church has no problem with evolution, a multi billion year old Universe, multi-verses, or the myriad of theory's and ideas that science comes up with. In actuality, it's the people on the science side of things that seem to have the closed mind.

The word myriad is never used with an article in front of it or the word "of" behind it. It is always myriad theories, myriad stars, and so on. And that is all the response your weak effort deserves.

Can we keep the cool 500 Gothic Cathedrals?

Why not? We haven't dismantled the pyramids yet.

 

[gerryh]

The word myriad is never used with an article in front of it or the word "of" behind it. It is always myriad theories, myriad stars, and so on. And that is all the response your weak effort deserves.
.

In other words you can't dispute what I have said. All you can do is pick apart my grammar.

 

[petros]

Religion is just one of many causes of man-made suffering in the world. Not the cause of everything. One could theoretically tally all the reasons for war in record history and find out what is the most common cause. I'd suspect resources, territory and ego would beat out religion.

But to say that religious excuses for violence is using religion for things not intended is absurd. This can only be judged on a case-by-case basis. What does the specific religion say about the violence being done in its name? If that interpretation is heavily disputed, you don't have much ground to stand on.

Take terrorism and Islam for example. 'Mainstream' (read liberal) Islamic scholars are generally against it, but unequivocal opposition to it is rare. Whether or not terrorism is acceptable under certain circumstances is disputed. Unless you're an Islamic scholar yourself and can trust in your own abilities to interpret that text, you really have no ground to say with certainty that terrorism is antithetical to Islam. Most of the time when people come down on either side, they're coming down on the side they want to believe is true. This problem is endemic in religious opinion and evident even in this thread.

Quranic permission for terrorism is disputed in Islam. Some people believe they have this permission explicitly and act on it. They believe they are acting in accordance with their religion and to say they are not is to take on an air of authority in the matter most have no place in claiming.

Can you sum up the message of the Bible in 30 word or less?

What sepearates the New Age moonbeam who read the Secret from someone who prays?

Who is more likely to a result? The moonbeam or the person with a sense of spirituality?

If you were to pray for or envision good health, what would the dialogue with God be or what would be the framework of the envisioned desire?

 

[Corduroy]

Can you sum up the message of the Bible in 30 word or less?

"And if you'll believe that, I got a manger in Bethlehem you might be interested in."

What sepearates the New Age moonbeam who read the Secret from someone who prays?

New Age moonbeam smells like patchouli.

Who is more likely to a result? The moonbeam or the person with a sense of spirituality?

I accidentally this question.

If you were to pray for or envision good health, what would the dialogue with God be or what would be the framework of the envisioned desire?

As my grandma always said, it's fine to talk to yourself, so long as you don't talk back.

 

[MHz]

Can you sum up the message of the Bible in 30 word or less?

It ain't over till it's over, verified in your own peepers.

Try reading the first 3 of Genesis and the last 3 of Revelation, more than 30 words but it does explain where we came from and where we are going.