Stephen Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

[I think not]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Yes I did and so will most canadians. I hope harper and his harperites continue on their same path, which is the same beaten path they has kept them from forming a government in this country.

Sidenote: Funny innt??? We are suppose to answer your questions, yet you have nothing to say about your government using chemical weapons on human beings in Iraq. The murder of civilians in your goverments invasion if far more important than two people marrying each other, regardless of their gender.

You better believe its a great thing that harper makes this part of his platform, it once again shows the hidden agenda of this group.

You're not supposed answer anything. I don't throw tantrums with exclamation points demanding answers, like yours truly. If you don't want to discuss this topic, then ignore it. Nobody is forcing you.

I placed this thread under the most appropriate forum I could find, Federal Elections. If I were you (a Canadian) I would be more interested in your upcoming elections and safeguarding your rights than anything I could ever do to "sway" you from discussing other topics.

And I don't understand why you keep implying that I don't take a position on the Iraq war, I am not going to "beat a dead horse" as you so eloquently put it simply to satisfy you.

 

[pastafarian]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

One can only hope Harper continues in this vein.

We haven't had a good, spirited attack on women's suffrage lately.
And how about those Evil-utionists trying to turn our children into atheists. What's up with that, Stephen?
You go, boy!
I notice, too that more pigmented people aren't being given the attention they deserve from the police. That's why crime is goin' way up.

Hey Stephie, we're about due for a terror attack. There's all these Lefty websites encouraging Canadians to be traitors and help the Islamofascist. We need a Department of Home Ice Security, random chekcs of ID by CSIS and immediate arrest and interrogation of all CBC brass and on-air personnel!

Now that'a a platform, Stephie. Don't be a wimp; be a winner!!! :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Oh sorry, I thought Canadians would be interested how someone in power can invoke the "notwithstanding clause" and reverse rights obtained. Seems to me you're avoiding the topic

Seems to me that you don't understand the shitrain of trouble that this would cause/has caused. First of all, you have over three thousand couples who would have to have their marriages annulled or "grandfathered" in. Here come the lawsuits, the protests, and a long, bitter fight.

Second of all, the history of the Conservatives wanting to use the notwithstanding clause brings up all kinds of scary images, not the least of which is racist homphobe Randy White, who the party just got rid of.

Third of all, the Harperites just hurt themselves in urban Ontario. This is exactly the kind of rednecked bigotry that people find scary about Harper.

Harper was a moron to re-open this issue. He was playing to a base that was going to vote for him anyway, and he just gave the Liberals and NDP something to whip him with.

 

[pastafarian]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

It's pretty clear Harper is shooting himself in the foot seeing as how he's not running for office in Kansas. here's another little scary tidbit about ol' Helmet Hair Harper, if it's true:

In Washington, Straussians exert powerful influence from within the inner circle of the White House. In Canada, they roost, for now, in the so-called Calgary School, guiding Harper in framing his election strategies. What preoccupies Straussians in both places is the question of "regime change."

Strauss defined a regime as a set of governing ideas, institutions and traditions. The neoconservatives in the Bush administration, who secretly conspired to make the invasion of Iraq a certainty, had a precise plan for regime change. They weren't out to merely replace Saddam with an American puppet. They planned to make the system more like the U.S., with an electoral process that can be manipulated by the elites, corporate control over the levers of power and socially conservative values.

There's one big difference between American and Canadian Straussians. The Americans assumed positions of power and influence in the administrations of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. The Canadians have not had much opportunity to show (or is that hide?) their stuff. That may change with a Harper victory.

Paul Wolfowitz's teacher, Allan Bloom, and another Straussian, Walter Berns, taught at the University of Toronto during the 1970s. They left their teaching posts at Cornell University because they couldn't stomach the student radicalism of the '60s. At Toronto, they influenced an entire generation of political scientists, who fanned out to universities across the country.

Two of their students, Ted Morton and Rainer Knopff, went to the University of Calgary where they specialize in attacking the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They claim the charter is the result of a conspiracy foisted on the Canadian people by "special interests." These nasty people are feminists, gays and lesbians, the poor, prisoners and refugee-rights groups who are advancing their own interests through the courts at the expense of the general public, these Straussians allege.

OK, but real links to Harper and the Cons?

When Harper threw his hat in the ring for the leadership of the Alliance, Tom Flanagan, the Calgary School's informal leader, became his closest adviser. Harper and Flanagan, whose scholarship focuses on attacking aboriginal rights, entered a four-year writing partnership and together studied the works of government-hater Friedrich Hayek. Flanagan ran the 2004 Conservative election campaign and is pulling the strings as the country readies for the election.

Political philosopher Shadia Drury is an expert on Strauss, though not a follower. She was a member of Calgary's political science department for more than two decades, frequently locking horns with her conservative colleagues before leaving in 2003 for the University of Regina.

Strauss recommended harnessing the simplistic platitudes of populism to galvanize mass support for measures that would, in fact, restrict rights. Does the Calgary School resort to such deceitful tactics? Drury believes so. Such thinking represents "a huge contempt for democracy," she told the Globe and Mail's John Ibbotson. The 2004 federal election campaign run by Flanagan was "the greatest stealth campaign we have ever seen," she said, "run by radical populists hiding behind the cloak of rhetorical moderation."

Tyee

Thing is, they may speak of a CPC "secret agenda" or it may just be more fear-mongering. I'd take a "better safe than sorry" approach, while keeping in mind that the "campaign from the Left, govern from the Right" Liberals definitely have a hidden agenda.

 

[peapod]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

"Screw em' 8O 8O 8O

Who are you refering to Jay?? homosexuals?? pehaps a freudian slip there :lol: :lol: :lol:

Again, its great news 8) Outta the starting gate, and already he shot himself in the head :lol: :lol:

 

[Jay]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

"Screw em' 8O 8O 8O

Who are you refering to Jay?? homosexuals?? pehaps a freudian slip there :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's a good one, Pea. :lol:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper vows free vote

Not a blog that adheres to journalistic standards though. You like half-truths on the radical right though.

 

[peapod]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

The first day 8O And already he has shot himself in the head and foot...mmmmmm I wonder if he hit his ass with one of those bullets..

Besides health care, which is the main concern of canadians, not who is marrying who ( that sounds like dr seuss ) canadians do not want to be involved in the invasion of another country, especially one that is nothing more than an attempt to steal the natural resources of another country, hiding under the guise of democracy, and doing a very poor job of it.

 

[no1important]

RE: Harper vows free vote

Harper would have to have a majority government to invoke notwithstanding clause and as long as they are dead in Quebec he will never get anything but a small miniority if he is lucky.

Why does he want to stir tis all up again anyways? It shows how he leads a party that discrimminates against miniorities.

 

[pastafarian]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Not a blog that adheres to journalistic standards though. You like half-truths on the radical right though.

I don't follow, Rev. B.

 

[Jay]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Not a blog that adheres to journalistic standards though. You like half-truths on the radical right though.

I don't follow, Rev. B.

My fault...I posted something in the wrong thread and than changed it. Sorry.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper vows free vote

I was wondering what happened there.

 

[TenPenny]

RE: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

So, here's a question. If Harper believes all MPs should be "free" to vote however they wish on same sex marriage, how come he doesn't believe all PEOPLE should be "free" to marry the person they want to?

What makes MPs so special, that they are allowed to have freedom?

 

[no1important]

Re: RE: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

So, here's a question. If Harper believes all MPs should be "free" to vote however they wish on same sex marriage, how come he doesn't believe all PEOPLE should be "free" to marry the person they want to?

What makes MPs so special, that they are allowed to have freedom?

Because he is a hypocritical pig. I am surprised he is showing his true colours in this campaign so early. Randy White shot his mouth off a few days before last election about ssm (among many things he shot his mouth off on) and it cost the Conservatives a chance at a miniority government.

I am dying to wait to see an mp bring up abortion next.........

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

So, here's a question. If Harper believes all MPs should be "free" to vote however they wish on same sex marriage, how come he doesn't believe all PEOPLE should be "free" to marry the person they want to?

What makes MPs so special, that they are allowed to have freedom?

Because he is a hypocritical pig. I am surprised he is showing his true colours in this campaign so early. Randy White shot his mouth off a few days before last election about ssm (among many things he shot his mouth off on) and it cost the Conservatives a chance at a miniority government.

I am dying to wait to see an mp bring up abortion next.........

You know, one of the reasons I abandoned the Groucho Marxist Party (can't help it, that cracks me up) 25 years ago, is that they are terrified of democracy.

The problem with leftist, and yes, this means people on this board, is that they think they have been blessed (by whom is unclear) as carriers of truth, and that truth must not be threatened by the will of the Great Unenlightened Masses. (GUM)

So Harper gets elected. Obviously he is not afraid to put forth the idea of a free vote on his election platform.. Vote for him, or don't. If he wins, and the representatives of the people opt for "civil union" as opposed to "same sex marriage", so be it. It is mostly an exercise in semantics anyway.

I've been married for 30 years (married at 21), with the same lady since we were 16. I would have prefered "marriage" retain the definition it had when I was married. I see no loss of rights in civil union.

That said, I wouldn't revisit the issue, if I were the Conservative leader. It's just not that important.

Move on.

 

[no1important]

RE: Harper vows free vote

So Harper gets elected. Obviously he is not afraid to put forth the idea of a free vote on his election platform.. Vote for him, or don't. If he wins, and the representatives of the people opt for "civil union" as opposed to "same sex marriage", so be it.

That can not happen as courts already upheld ssm as legal. (so it would be thrown out) The only way he can get rid of ssm is to invoke notwithstanding clause and majority of Libs, Bloc,NDP support it so it aint gonna happen and Harper will never get a majority.

This issue is finished and should of stayed put to rest and not stirred up to please the few neocons in his party.

On another note:

Actually I believe the liberal dominated senate could and would hold up a lot of Harpers legislation. Whether he had majority or miniority.

Oh wasn't it the Cons that increased Senate and appointed hacks so they could pass GST??

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

You know, one of the reasons I abandoned the Groucho Marxist Party (can't help it, that cracks me up) 25 years ago, is that they are terrified of democracy.

Apparently you've never been to a party meeting, or even watched on on TV. On the other hand, I've been to meetings of the Harperite Fascist Party (can't help it, it cracks me up) and I've seen very few signs of democracy there. Not a lot of smiling either.

So Harper gets elected. Obviously he is not afraid to put forth the idea of a free vote on his election platform.

Is that why he beat up that chair at your policy convention?

I've been married for 30 years (married at 21), with the same lady since we were 16.

I feel sorry for Mrs. Colpy.

I would have prefered "marriage" retain the definition it had when I was married.

It does. You are still married.

I see no loss of rights in civil union.

Maybe a trip to Lenscrafters would help.

That said, I wouldn't revisit the issue, if I were the Conservative leader. It's just not that important.

Harper thinks it is and he's just cost you a bunch of votes. :lol:

 

[TenPenny]

RE: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Well, Colpy, I see no loss or change in MY marriage if same sex marriage is legal. How does it affect me? It doesn't. How does it affect you? It doesn't, if what you've said is true.

Did Chrysler cars suddenly change when the company became Daimler Chrysler? Unfortunately not. Why do people insist that allowing same sex marriage has any impact whatsoever on existing heterosexual marriages?
It doesn't. It can't.

 

[peapod]

Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Exactly tenpenny, you just worry about making "your" marriage work and let others marry or live the lives they chose, just as you were allowed.
If allowing gays to marry effects "your" marriage, than maybe there was something wrong with it to begin with. It doesan't effect your marriage and you knows t.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Harper vows free vote

I was wondering what happened there.

I was going to allow you to think you were going crazy.....