Stephen Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

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Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Harper vows free vote

I think not said:
Said1 said:
I think not said:
Said1 said:
Back to the notwithstanding clause. I don't think it'll fly becaue a federal or provincial majority all that is needed to invoke it, but would Harper have that? Then the decision can be taken to court, where it will more than likely be squashed since our constitution includes homosexuals when refering to gender. As far as a free vote goes, I think it would pass that way too, but I don't forsee that happening.
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Could you cite this for me please?
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The courts have accepted that section 15 is to be interpreted broadly, and that “analogous” grounds, i.e., personal characteristics other than those listed, may also form the basis for discrimination against a group or an individual (Andrews v. Law Society of B.C.). In 1995, the view that sexual orientation is such an “analogous” ground, and therefore a prohibited ground of discrimination under the Charter, was confirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada in the Egan decision discussed below under the heading “Same-Sex Spouses.”
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Link

Other related infor, mainly pertaining to same-sex benefits ect.
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And here's the major question. Can the notwithstanding clause still be invoked?
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If Harper has a federal or provincial majority. Also, any legislation passed based on the notwithstanding clause has to go through the same proceedure (fed/prov majority) every 5 yrs. Invoking that clause does not result in the legislation being written in stone.
 
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Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Das Kapital
Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

I think not said:
Yes thats what I thought. Thanks again....catwoman :p
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In my opinion, it's a moot point. There may be some room to manouver, based on the religious beliefs of those who must perform the ceremonies at city hall, but I think that would be for the courts to decide. Not so sure on that one.
 
I think not

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Said1 said:
I think not said:
Yes thats what I thought. Thanks again....catwoman :p
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In my opinion, it's a moot point. There may be some room to manouver, based on the religious beliefs of those who must perform the ceremonies at city hall, but I think that would be for the courts to decide. Not so sure on that one.
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My argument is basically this. Does this infamous "notwithstanding clause" (and I admit not knowing much about it) grant Parliament (or Provincial legislatures) sweeping power to overturn rights already obtained with no checks or balances? That's my question. From articles I have read, Trudeau called the notwithstanding clause a compromise, and I am trying to figure out exactly what he meant.
 
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Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

I think not said:
Said1 said:
I think not said:
Yes thats what I thought. Thanks again....catwoman :p
Click to expand...

In my opinion, it's a moot point. There may be some room to manouver, based on the religious beliefs of those who must perform the ceremonies at city hall, but I think that would be for the courts to decide. Not so sure on that one.
Click to expand...

My argument is basically this. Does this infamous "notwithstanding clause" (and I admit not knowing much about it) grant Parliament (or Provincial legislatures) sweeping power to overturn rights already obtained with no checks or balances? That's my question. From articles I have read, Trudeau called the notwithstanding clause a compromise, and I am trying to figure out exactly what he meant.
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Yes it does. A good example of this is when local police set up road blocks to randomly (or check every person) to see if they've been drinking and driving. This would fall under the "unlawful search and seisure (sp??) section" (or whatever it is), but the government/s agrees that in doing this they are protecting society, so it's reasonable to stop and detain people for this purpose.
 
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Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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RE: Harper vows free vote

The notwithstanding cause is really a moot point in this case. Harper isn't going to get a majority no matter what happens, it's highly doubtful that he will even get a minority...especially since he's such a political bonehead that he brought this up again.

The salient point is that Harper and his party are so guided by right-wing religious beliefs that they just couldn't leave this issue alone.
 
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Andygal

Electoral Member
May 13, 2005
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BC
RE: Harper vows free vote

Yes they do seem to be experts in the abuse of dead horses don't they?
 
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Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
RE: Harper vows free vote

South Africa just realised that banning same sex marriage is unconstitutional. Harper wants Canada to have fewer human rights than countries in the developing world.
 
Jay

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Re: RE: Harper vows free vote

Reverend Blair said:
South Africa just realised that banning same sex marriage is unconstitutional. Harper wants Canada to have fewer human rights than countries in the developing world.
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I didn't realize Harpers position all along was to ban same sex marriage. I thought it was to keep traditional marriage the way it is and have civil unions.
 
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Hogwild

New Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Liberals confuse laws that support irresponsible behavior with human rights. The two serve completely different masters.

Homosexuality is no more a human right than suicide. Both are practiced by the insane and affect society the same way - negatively.

When irresponsible governments create irresponsible laws, they must be undone for the good of society.

In reality, sanity only requires that you acknowledge the facts - not like them.

I can't wait for your reply, blah, blah, blah.
 
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PoisonPete2

Electoral Member
Apr 9, 2005
651
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Re: RE: Harper vows free vote

Jay said:
Reverend Blair said:
I didn't realize Harpers position all along was to ban same sex marriage. I thought it was to keep traditional marriage the way it is and have civil unions.
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Answer - one of the aspects of discrimination is when you differenciate an activity based on who is doing it. For example, white man jogging (health nut), black man jogging (fleeing felon). Or how about woman hugging child (motherly love), man hugging child (pedophilic grooming). It is a perceptual thing. I call it bigotry, and our Laws should not reflect such a thing.
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Jay

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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RE: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

I guess Great Briton is a bigot then (along with a bunch of other countries). I don't believe it.
 
Jo Canadian

Jo Canadian

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Mar 15, 2005
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PEI...for now
Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

 
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