Source of Consciousness

[socratus]

Source of Consciousness
=.
Does evolution begin on big bang level?
Does evolution begin on the quarks level?
In our earthly world there is only one fundamental
particle - electron
Does evolution begin on the electron’s level?
Can an electron evolve?
Does an electron have consciousness ?
Energy is electromagnetic waves (em): E=h*f
Lorentz proved: there isn’t em waves without Electron
It means the source of these em waves must be an Electron
The electron and the em waves they are physical reality
Can evolution of life begin on electron’s level?
=.
Molecular biology & molecular evolution
Cosmology & cosmic evolution
If Universe evolve can electron evolve too ?
Does evolution of life begin on electron level ?
Origin of life is a result of physical laws that govern Universe
Electron takes important part in this work
Question:
Why does the simplest particle - electron have six formulas:
E=h*f e = +ah*c e = -ah*c +E=Mc^2 -E=Mc^2 E= ∞ ?
Nobody knows
Question:
Why does electron obey five ( 5) Laws ?
a) Law of conservation and transformation energy/ mass
b) Maxwell’s equations
c) Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle / Law
d) Pauli Exclusion Principle/ Law
e) Fermi-Dirac statistics
Nobody knows.
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Quote by Heinrich Hertz on Maxwell's equations:

"One cannot escape the feeling that these mathematical formulae
have an independent existence and an intelligence of their own,
that they are wiser than we are, wiser even than their discoverers,
that we get more out of them than was originally put into them."
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Ladies and Gentlemen !
Friends !
Electron is not as simple as we think and, maybe, he is wiser than we are.
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Israel Sadovnik Socratus
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[socratus]

Comment by Frank Steve
=.
The Electron Conscious?
At first glance this seems to be a rather senseless question.
But then IONS founder has been known to ask “Does the Universe Perceive?
The first is a micro question that implies the macro nature of the latter.
So here is my reasoning. If electrons of an oxygen atom enter and
then mysteriously leave their emergent atomic fields of manifestation
in precise femtosecond timing …and then instantly change their
enter-exit frequencies when their atoms nucleus combines

with two hydrogen atoms to form water … how do they know how …
and when to do this instantaneous switch?
So the question is really two questions:
1 – Do electrons possess dynamic states of awareness?
2 – If so, are they also conscious … i.e. comparative reasoning?
3 – And if they do possess limited spans of conscious,
do they self-control their reactive behaviors?
/ Frank Steve /

Comment by awori achoka .

This is interesting...critical events and phenomena,
in the universe are determined by occurrences at the
elemental level, through biochemical processes or changes
in energy states.
These events will occur with or without human intervention
or perception....ie, we don't to have to know for the universe
to exist... and breathe.
So, is the universe aware of our existence?
And does it matter that we exist?
/ awori achoka /

 

[darkbeaver]

Comment by Frank Steve
=.
The Electron Conscious?
At first glance this seems to be a rather senseless question.
But then IONS founder has been known to ask “Does the Universe Perceive?
The first is a micro question that implies the macro nature of the latter.
So here is my reasoning. If electrons of an oxygen atom enter and
then mysteriously leave their emergent atomic fields of manifestation
in precise femtosecond timing …and then instantly change their
enter-exit frequencies when their atoms nucleus combines

with two hydrogen atoms to form water … how do they know how …
and when to do this instantaneous switch?
So the question is really two questions:
1 – Do electrons possess dynamic states of awareness?
2 – If so, are they also conscious … i.e. comparative reasoning?
3 – And if they do possess limited spans of conscious,
do they self-control their reactive behaviors?
/ Frank Steve /

Comment by awori achoka .

This is interesting...critical events and phenomena,
in the universe are determined by occurrences at the
elemental level, through biochemical processes or changes
in energy states.
These events will occur with or without human intervention
or perception....ie, we don't to have to know for the universe
to exist... and breathe.
So, is the universe aware of our existence?
And does it matter that we exist?
/ awori achoka /

They say that we are sensory appendages of the universe, all life that is. The awareness of the universe is total and instantaneous. Whatever exists matters. earth air fire and water Old physics is still physics. There is nothing new anywhere in the universe and there is no escape, ever.

 

[socratus]

Not By Chance the Existence Began.

The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys
at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time
will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works
of William Shakespeare.
The probability of a monkey exactly typing a complete work such
as Shakespeare's Hamlet is so tiny that the chance of it occurring
during a period of time of the order of the age of the universe
is extremely low, but not zero.
. . . . .
If there are as many monkeys as there are particles in the
observable universe . . . . the probability of the monkeys replicating
even a short book is nearly zero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

It means that by chance it is impossible to create
Intellect Existence during 13 - 20 billions of years
after ‘big bang’.
The Intellect Existence needs some intellect beginning.
============..
socratus

 

[petros]

The Intellect Existence needs some intellect beginning.
============..
socratus

It all started as a reaction to external stimuli.

 

[socratus]

[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR] It all started as a reaction to external stimuli.

Yes, correct, somebody tickled the God’s heel.

 

[petros]

How did a reaction progress into a thought?

 

[darkbeaver]

external stimuli cannot act on a closed system, are we close to discovering the beginning point on the circumference of wheels? The eternal never begins.

 

[Angstrom]

All living things are a galaxy of its own.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

For some unknown reason I've never been able to quote socratus and get a post that works. However, he said this:

"It means that by chance it is impossible to create Intellect Existence during 13 - 20 billions of years after ‘big bang’."

​

To which I'm saying, so what? Nobody who understands biological evolution has ever claimed otherwise, it's always been obvious that chance alone couldn't generate such a convincing appearance of design. It's only the ignorant who try to discredit evolution that way, and the implied conclusion, that there must be a creative intellect that started it all, doesn't follow. It's actually a straw man fallacy.

 

[petros]

To me a crystal self assemblying it's self to perfect form is just as mind blowing as life.

 

[socratus]

My conclusion:
=.
We have two opportunities.
One opportunity .
By the Chance it was impossible to create Intellect Existence
during as short time as 13 - 20 billions years after ‘big bang’.
The intelligence could have never appeared By the Chances
according to Theory of Probability (as per the infinite monkey
theorem) because it is not enough time for creating it.
The Evolution (which gave a rise to intelligence ) according
to Theory of Probability By the Chance it is impossible.
It must be some intelligence beginning.
If ‘big bang ’ true theory (and we are materialists ) then we must
find an intellectual beginning inside it.

Now physicists have zoo of elementary particles.
Which of them can take functions of intellectual beginning ?
Can every particle of this zoo have beginning of consciousness?
I think, no.
Why?
Because in our Earthly world there is only one smallest practical
fundamental particle - electron.
Now is possible to ask:
Does evolution begin on the electron’s level?
Does an electron have consciousness ?
Can an electron evolve?
What is an electron?
=.
Second opportunity .
The theory ‘big bang’ is wrong.
And then according to Theory of Probability the Universe has
chance not zero but nearly zero to creat Intellect Existence.

So. Einstein’s question ‘ Does God play dice ? ’ is still open.
====.
Socratus
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[Cliffy]

It would all depend on what you define as intelligence and consciousness. As the old saying goes, "Beam me up Scotty. There is no intelligent life down here."

If consciousness is similar to being self aware, then it is possible that an electron is self aware on an electron scale of consciousness.

If we redefine consciousness other than from our own perspective, intelligence could be present in an electron just as easily as we think we are intelligent (although, as a student of human behaviour, I think that perhaps our belief in our own intelligence may be greatly exaggerated.)

 

[darkbeaver]

It would all depend on what you define as intelligence and consciousness. As the old saying goes, "Beam me up Scotty. There is no intelligent life down here."

If consciousness is similar to being self aware, then it is possible that an electron is self aware on an electron scale of consciousness.

If we redefine consciousness other than from our own perspective, intelligence could be present in an electron just as easily as we think we are intelligent (although, as a student of human behaviour, I think that perhaps our belief in our own intelligence may be greatly exaggerated.)

The idea of human dominion in the universe is still very strong in us owing to the evil construct of the Judeo Christian church. Consciousness is a result of proximity and exchange and it does not require biological life. Water molecules are aware of each other. That belief in our omnipotent intelligence is probably the most destructive of human errors in thinking. Physical and mental limitations are routinely disregarded in stupid wasteful expressions of our idiot convictions about human supremacy. We will never ever even plumb the depths of our own ignorance. We simply cannot ever compete with the universal consciousness let alone understand it. All the ingredients of a stew are fully familiarized with each other and when and if the garlic is added every molecule in the pot knows directly the introduced flavour. Because the enhancement is so obvious we might wonder if the garlicless stew had not anticipated the addition and made provision.

 

[Cliffy]

The idea of human dominion in the universe is still very strong in us owing to the evil construct of the Judeo Christian church. Consciousness is a result of proximity and exchange and it does not require biological life. Water molecules are aware of each other. That belief in our omnipotent intelligence is probably the most destructive of human errors in thinking. Physical and mental limitations are routinely disregarded in stupid wasteful expressions of our idiot convictions about human supremacy. We will never ever even plumb the depths of our own ignorance. We simply cannot ever compete with the universal consciousness let alone understand it. All the ingredients of a stew are fully familiarized with each other and when and if the garlic is added every molecule in the pot knows directly the introduced flavour. Because the enhancement is so obvious we might wonder if the garlicless stew had not anticipated the addition and made provision.

Agreed. We will probably be undone by our own stupidity. As I have said, the finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite. That we think we can is a testament to our ignorance and arrogance.

 

[darkbeaver]

Agreed. We will probably be undone by our own stupidity. As I have said, the finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite. That we think we can is a testament to our ignorance and arrogance.

Redone for me Cliffy, this time around I was a little underdone I think.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Socratus wrote: "The Evolution (which gave a rise to intelligence ) according to Theory of Probability By the Chance it is impossible. It must be some intelligence beginning."

If you'd start your reasoning from correct information you might improve the quality of your conclusions. The understanding of evolution you express there is deeply flawed, and your conclusion is indefensible on that basis. Evolution does not proceed by chance, in fact it's the very opposite of a random process in most of its details.

 

[socratus]

Agreed.
We will probably be undone by our own stupidity.
As I have said, the finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite.
That we think we can is a testament to our ignorance and arrogance.

If infinity doesn’t have physical parameters then you are correct.
If infinity has some physical parameters then situation is another.

 

[Omicron]

I have plenty of thoughts on this issue, but let's take it one step at a time.

Pretend you had no memory.

Would you still be "conscious"?

 

[socratus]

Book ‘ The trouble with Physics’ / by Lee Smolin /
Part 8. The first superstring revolution.
Page 126 – 127.
‘. . . the growing catalog of string theories meant that
we weren’t actually studying a fundamental theory.’ . . .
‘ . . . but the many versions of string theory opened up
the possibility that it was true of essentially all the
properties of the elementary particles and forces. This would
mean that properties of the elementary particles were
environmental and could change in time. If so, it would mean
that physics would be more like biology, in that the
properties of the elementary particles would depend on the
history of our universe. ‘
( These thoughts would lead to a 1992 paper titled ‘ Did the
Universe Evolve?’ and a 1997 book called
‘ The Life of the Cosmos.’ Our story later turns on these ideas.)

Lee Smolin.
http://www.leesmolin.com/

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