Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shocker

[Mooseskin Johnny]

RE: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

The major problem in Egyptology is the time-line. Early Egyptologists were heavily influenced by the Christian Bible and they believed that the world was created about 4000 BC. Thus, the pyramids and surrounding structures could be no older than 6,000 years. This bias has stubbornly persisted into modern Egyptology, which is unable to explain water erosion near the Sphinx. Any geologist will tell you that it has been some 10,000 years since there was enough running water in the area to cause that much erosion. Egyptologists can't explain the contradiction and choose to ignore it.

 

[no1important]

RE: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

and what about the pyramids in Mexico and south America? Same with Stone hedge.

How could they all of been built without "help"? It seems too advanced to even be built in this time, let alone 4000, 6000 + years ago.

I know some people will never want to believe it but "we are not alone". And that truth scares a lot of people so they subconsciously deny the reality of the situation.

I personally believe the ancient "Gods" of Egypt and elsewhere were "visitors". Laugh at me if you want but that is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Something is Wrong wi

It's all the same pattern, No1. The invent beer, then they build huge monuments. I not making this up. Various scientists have said that happens because of the nutritional value of beer, but that doesn't explain "The Garage Factor."

The Garage Factor is simply the fact that if you need a garage built or your stuff moved or a roof put on your house, you can entice your friends to do it by offering them beer. They might not do it for a million dollars, but for a few beer? No problem!

The buildings aren't really all that advanced, either. Pyramids are one of the simplest strutures to build and the only structure that can be made that large with "primitive" technology.

We know some of the technology used to build these things too. Measuring wheels explain the pi factor (if you're using something round to measure distance with pi will show up repeated in the finished product); there are hieroglyphs of ramps and blocks being moved on wooden rollers. We don't know everything they did, but we have replicated these things in experiments.

And we could build the pyramids today. We've had that technology for a very long time. The usual argument is that our buildings aren't as precise, but that's really a cultural thing. We build to within tolerances but the Egyptians wanted to be exact. We put up skyscrapers so men in suits have a place to spend their days, but the pyramid builders were sending a god on to the afterlife.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: RE: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid

The major problem in Egyptology... etc...

That's a little uncharitable, Moose. The real problem is that we don't have the data necessary to answer some questions definitively, and among those questions is the age of the Sphinx. The archeological evidence seems to make the Sphinx roughly contemporary with the Great Pyramid, and there's some geological evidence that suggests it's much older, but there's no archeological evidence of a culture existing in the neighbourhood that could have built it then. The data aren't consistent. The smart--and scientific--thing to do is not take a position, but science is a human activity and thus prey to all the foibles of human nature. Eventually it'll correct itself, if the history of science is any guide.

As for the other matter raised by others here, about "visitors" helping in the construction of sites like the Egyptian pyramids and Stonehenge and other things, that's purely an ad hoc hypothesis with no good evidence to support it. It explains nothing and leads to no new insights, it just removes the need for any other explanation. It's no different in principle from postulating that God did it. Not a useful way of figuring things out; it's not an explanation at all, it's a way of avoiding an explanation.

 

[hmsmark]

RE: Something is Wrong wi

Wow, the only think I know about the Egyptian Pyramids is that the aliens from Stargate built them to land their ships on... well, OK, I don't know anything about the Pyramids.

I wouldn't worry. I'm sure the US will figure Egypt is hiding WMDs or Osama Bin-Ladin in there and blow them up soon. Oh... If only that were a joke.

While I'm on the subject of blowing up Egyptian stuff, does anyone know if Napoleon's army really blew off the Sphinx nose? I read something like that in a caption of a picture once, but it sounds a bit off. How the heck would they hit the nose and not seem to damage anything else with a bunch of cannon. Its not like they would set up artillery, aim it at the Sphinx and fire one shot. Officers don't usually like to see their men mess around with cannons, well, I hope not anyways.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: RE: Something is Wrong wi

While I'm on the subject of blowing up Egyptian stuff, does anyone know if Napoleon's army really blew off the Sphinx nose?

No, it was the Mamelukes, according to this, and a whole lot of other sources:

http://www.napoleonseries.org/faq/sphinx.cfm

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

Re: RE: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid

The major problem in Egyptology... etc...

. . . The data aren't consistent. The smart--and scientific--thing to do is not take a position, but science is a human activity and thus prey to all the foibles of human nature. Eventually it'll correct itself, if the history of science is any guide. . . .

You're right, on both counts. The data is inconsistant, and I'm not charitable about it. I expect scientists to be more objective, and honest.

One more disappointment: the modern tendency to under estimate ancient peoples.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

One more disappointment: the modern tendency to under estimate ancient peoples.

That's a troubling thing. We have not evolved at all since the times of ancient Egypt, only our technology has changed. The ancient Egyptians were no more primitive than we are.

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

Re: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

Absolutely. The ability to pass on information, through language, means there's been an accumulation of knowledge, that's all. Ancient Sumerians, considered the founders of our civilisation, were far from ignorant savages; these people had complex laws, not to mention an incredibly sophisticated humanist philosophy.

One of my favourite quotes is from the Babylonian epic poem Gilgamesh: "Gilgamesh, what you seek you will never find. For when the Gods created Man they let death be his lot, eternal life they withheld. Let your every day be full of joy, love the child that holds your hand, for these alone are the cares of humanity"

That was written 4500+ years ago. Incredible.
( :roll: Apologies for the digression; I'll let you get back to Egypt, now).

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

RE: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

No apologies needed, Henry. You reinforced my point. And, I like your quote from Gilgamesh.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

Right. That's what irritates me most about Erich von Daniken and others like him who try to make the case that we've been visited in the ancient past by aliens who taught us everything we know and built pyramids and drew lines on the Plain of Nazca and so forth. They use a false dilemma argument in the general form of, “Either we must assume these primitive idiots did this themselves, or they must have had help from very advanced creatures.” That's a sweeping attack on the memories and abilities of ancient peoples, and questions the capacity for culture and memory, and even civilization itself, in our ancestors. As the Rev observed, we’re talking about a span of time of only a few thousand years, which is too short a time for evolution to have affected homo sapiens significantly. Our ancient ancestors of 5000 years ago were exactly as smart as we are, and flakes like Von Daniken dismissing them is both unjustified and insulting.

 

[no1important]

Re: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

Right. That's what irritates me most about Erich von Daniken and others like him who try to make the case that we've been visited in the ancient past by aliens who taught us everything we know and built pyramids and drew lines on the Plain of Nazca and so forth. They use a false dilemma argument in the general form of, “Either we must assume these primitive idiots did this themselves, or they must have had help from very advanced creatures.” That's a sweeping attack on the memories and abilities of ancient peoples, and questions the capacity for culture and memory, and even civilization itself, in our ancestors.

Oh, Really? Can you prove otherwise?

http://www.alienshift.com/id72.html

Thgink of it, the Great Pyramid covers an area large enough to hold 10 football fields, 7 soccer fields, 27 miles of sidewalk, or 250 single story, two bedroom homes.

Science/Religion do not go into much detail about things like this because they cant explain it They cant explain how 47 centuries ago, with no surveying knowledge or technology, no earth moving, grading or leveling devices, and no understanding of geology that anyone could level a massive area almost 600,000 square feet level to within ½ of an inch of perfect. Without tools and technology it would be almost impossible to level even a small parking lot with such accuracy.

Almost 5000 years of incredible advances in construction techniques and equipment and it is doubtful such an achievement could be duplicated even today. Major industrial contractors not only say it is not possible but are at a loss to explain how it could have been done originally. And this is the foundation, the beginning, not the whole structure.

The way a builder starts the project, the accuracy of the layout, and the preparation of the site reflects the quality and craftsmanship of that builder. And true to the start this incredible precision is carried throughout the Great Pyramid, bottom to top, inside and out. Two and a half million blocks, none weighing less than a ton, for a combined total of 90 million cubic feet weighing 6.5 million tons, soaring to almost 500 feet, perfectly cut, transported and precisely placed so perfectly a razor cant fit in the joints.

And the Egyptians that supposedly built it didn’t even have a wheel or a compass. The reason scientists don’t try to explain this is they can’t and don’t want to accept or admit the truth.

The technology and tools available in the 27th century BC could not and did not build the largest and most precise structure ever erected on this planet. No way, no how.:roll:

So how can anyone deny their is a possibility "visitors" helped build them. I mean look at all the blocks, what they weighed and how quick it would have to be built, it does not make sense the Ancient Egyptians built them alone.

2,500,000 blocks divided by 20 years = 125,000 blocks per year.
125,000 blocks divided by 312 days per year = 400 blocks per day.
400 blocks divided by 12 hours per day = 33+ blocks per hour.
33 blocks per hour = 1 block bonded perfectly in place in less than two minutes. yeah right.

Each of the 2.5 million blocks was transported 10 to 600 miles to the building site using no wheels, over forbidding terrain that would give a tank a run for its money.

Thirteen billion pounds of massive blocks had to be floated across the Nile River against a powerful downstream current in all conditions on barges bigger than those we have today with no power. One of the serious questions posed is whether it was humanly possible to transport any of these massive stones across the Nile at all. There is no evidence that we can build barges today that are large enough to float such tremendous weight in such shallow environs

We are not alone, I do not know how people can say otherwise. Is it that the religious right neocons are afraid of finding out we are not the centre of "god's" creation? Afraid to find out maybe other planet residents were made in "gods image" instead?

here is a good link to check out for more info: http://www.outerworlds.com/likeness/aliens/aliens.html
http://www.unexplainable.net/pyramids.html
http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Who built the pyramids.htm

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

RE: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

Technologies and skills change. We would have a difficult time building some of the stone cathedrals that we have in some of our cities. There's a cathedral in Vancouver that was built of granite blocks by Scottish stone masons and we would have a terrible time reproducing it today. That was only 100 years ago.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

Oh, Really? Can you prove otherwise?

No, but it's irrelevant anyway. You're the one making the extraordinary claim that we've been visited by aliens, not me, so the burden of proof is on you. I can't prove you're wrong, but that doesn't mean you're right. Those citations you provided don't really say anything more than von Daniken's false dilemma argument, they're not evidence. As soon as I saw that list of falsehoods, " no surveying knowledge or technology, no earth moving, grading or leveling devices, and no understanding of geology," I knew what kind of arguments I was going to see.

One of these days I might start a thread about how to think clearly and what the nature of evidence is, and maybe discuss the various ways we talk ourselves into believing things that are highly unlikely to be true. In the meantime, you might hang around a few used bookshops for a while and see if you can scare up a copy of L. Sprague de Camp's book called "The Ancient Engineers."

 

[bogie]

RE: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

Great topic, Stretch, and it has obviously "stretched" some imaginations ... such is a good dialogue.

I was always fascinated by the Egyptians, and studied them quite a bit back in my school days. Despite what some posters have stated in this thread, they were quite advanced, and had technical skills lost forever upon the demise of their long-running empire - our so-called modern civilization is but a mere speck of time compared to how long they existed. Maybe someday we will unearth more of their mysteries.

As far as the specualtion on visitors from another planet, I like to leave my mind open to that possibility. To think that mother Earth is the one and only planet, in our vast universe, capable of producing intelligent life, is not only irrational but defies logic. We could be number 2506 in a list of planets with life on it, with 2505 before us (many of which may not exist anymore).

4500 years ago is a long time period, and, if we were "visited", we could be a "been there, done that" piece of alien history ... we will most likely never know, at least in our life-time. So, keep an open mind, but, for now, we have only what is before us to explain any mysteries. Like CSI, we should go on "real evidence only" and look for more.

Personally, I would love to think that the Egyptians were so far-advanced that they could do all that was done without any "StarGate trekkies".

 

[zenfisher]

RE: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

No1 important...yes that would be impossible for one person. But your looking at probably anywhere from 5k to 20k persons ( possibly more) assembling it. Your looking at a fair span of time to build it as well.

While there may have been no wheel ( It seems to me the Egyptians were known for chariots..I think your thinking Aztecs.) they still would have had logs. Logs roll.

While they may not have had compasses...they were known for their sailing ability. The north star would come into play here. They were keenly aware of the sky, a compass may have proved less reliable as it points to magnetic North, which has a tendency to move. Watching the sky however would have given them a better idea of where true North is.

While I don't find the Egyptians to be evidence of alien visitation. I do find the writing of the caves of the Dogon and the Bozo ( considered to be Lybian & Egyptian as well )to be a somewhat credible link to visitation. Their religion has Sirius (the dog star) at its hub. The really cool thing is, that they determined that it was a binary system without modern telescopes. That to me, speaks of some kind of help.

I don't preclude that the Egyptians didn't get help. I just think it is feasible they could have constructed it without help. Even if, we don't know exactly how it was accomplished.

 

[no1important]

RE: Something is Wrong wi

Well, Galileo Galilei was branded as crazy for saying the earth was not the centre of the universe...
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Galileo.html

People used to believe the Earth was flat.

People denied Troy existed.

People denied the Vedic Culture existed.

People still deny there is life on any of the trillion trillion fold of planets out there. Yet they believe in a "God or Gods" without any concrete proof.

V.32:
Disaster from the skies,
like the seventh stone,
strikes when least expected.

III.4
Shortly before sun and moon are dimmed,
cold, drought,
and danger are abroad.

III.5
With the far future dimming
of sun and moon,
two mighty rescuers appear.

These three versus support the meteor theory which cast the earth in to a "nuclear winter". The earth is stricken into a time of drought, possibly 40 years. Then bombarded by rain and flood, famine and still the war rages on during most of this time period. There are some who suggest the last line of III.5 is what turns everything around.

The 2 mighty rescuers are suggested to be extraterrestrial. In fact Nostradamus defines many versus of extraterrestrial visitations and influence on the world. Both in the past and increasingly in the future.

Nostradamus seems to have a descent record so far.

 

[fubbleskag]

Re: RE: Something is Wrong wi

Nostradamus seems to have a descent record so far.

i'm not intimately familiar with his writings and his success rate - you got a link that outlines his fulfilled predictions? this guy has piqued my curiotity.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: Something is Wrong with this Picture! Great Pyramid Shoc

Odd how nobody ever knows what any of Nostradamus' quatrains mean until after some event that can be identified with one of them has happened. They are purposefully vague and obscure, which makes them easy to fit to all kinds of events after the fact, and frequently twisted in translation to make it easier.

Nostradamus' record of successful prediction is a big fat zero.

 

[no1important]

Re: RE: Something is Wrong wi

Nostradamus seems to have a descent record so far.

i'm not intimately familiar with his writings and his success rate - you got a link that outlines his fulfilled predictions? this guy has piqued my curiotity.

www.Nostradamus.org
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dko12530/nostradamus.htm
http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~jamesf/Nfaqs.html

Did Nostradamus predict any specific names, dates, or events?

Answer. The names of [Louis] Pasteur, [Gen. Francisco] Franco, and others are clearly given by Nostradamus. The exact date of the London Fire (1666) is also plainly given. Many interpreters think that Hitler's name is also given, slightly modified, as "Hister." There are still many unsolved names and dates.
In other quatrains, several dates are given in terms of fairly specific and unique astronomical data (e.g., planet positions in the zodiac).

What did Nostradamus say about China?

Answer. Very little or nothing. He does refer to the King of the Mongols, and to a King from beyond the Black Sea. Most of the discussion about China relates to a verse from the Bible that mentions an army of 200 Million.

Go here to see predictions http://www.mabus.biz/nos/index.php
http://nostradamus.freehomepages.com/ scroll down a bit.

Odd how nobody ever knows what any of Nostradamus' quatrains mean until after some event that can be identified with one of them has happened. They are purposefully vague and obscure, which makes them easy to fit to all kinds of events after the fact, and frequently twisted in translation to make it easier.

Nostradamus' record of successful prediction is a big fat zero.

If you read them you can see that some of his "predictions" are slowly coming to be. I do understand your fear of anything that is not Religious based or in the Bible.
We know Nostradamus believed
in what he was doing, so he believes his prophecies to be the honest truth unlike the Christian Bible that was written by diferent men and changed over time. I would believe Nostradamus prophecies before anything in the Bible. But that is just my opinion.

Open your mind don't continue to be brainwashed that Nostradamus was a crack pot. He wasn't.

Don't you believe some people honestly have a gift of premonition and for some cosmic reason Nostradamus was one of those people?
I.15
Mars shall threaten all of us with war
Seventy times blood shall bed shed
Fragmented and ruined is the Church
By those who will not listen to Her Teaching

COMMENT: After the period of peace for fifty seven years, a period of seventy years of sporadic wars called here as the False Crusade between Western and Muslim factions of the world shall ruin the Church,her authority, and creat much more human sufferings.

hummmm 57 years after ww2 ended was 2001 and can you honestly say that is not going on now? Would Iraq be the false crusade?

or this one
What neither sword nor flame can finish
A clever tongue shall accomplish through council
After a rest, a dream shall entice the king to destroy again
More enemies shall die in fire and bloody war

that sounds like "W" to me.