Some spiritual observations
- Thread starter eanassir
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Side effects of prayer may include: joint pain, insomnia, constipation, nausea, hallucinations, restless leg syndrome, muscle cramps, overtipping, memory loss, excessive urination, night terrors, piblokto, dry mouth, acne, bi-winning, intestinal itch, accelerated nail growth, eczema, tinnitus and bed head. Some patients experience twinkle in their toes. Do not take prayer if you're pregnant. Ask your doctor before taking prayer with Lipitor.
You don't have to be actually mean spirited, to be offensive...Well, I might have been tempted to make a joke in a thread about Lent, but I'm not sure what it would have been. It would been like "I'm giving up [something silly]" I can't think of anything funny right now and I think I have some kind of record around here for not being mean-spirited? I try.
And I'm no Christian by the way.
If you go back in my list of posts, you can find where a member here, who just happened to be a Catholic Priest, told me to "F!ck off". I used to be the quintessential mean spirited anti Christian on this board.
Not really.Awesome, but we couldn't have much of debate about this post because, if I understand it correctly, I'm pretty sure I agree with you.
If the amount of prostitots at the BassPro yesterday, was any indication, not enough.
Yep. But only one of those faiths has brought us the Magna Carta and common law.
Perhaps it was.
The mind can be very very powerful. One can imagine pain , or maybe create pain for situations in thier lives they have a hrad time coping with.
My ex in her previous relationship suffered from something like that. Her hands hurt durning winter months and when it was damp . She was sure she had arthritis. When the situation changed all that went away, never suffered from that again.
I had a friend , he was diagnosed with generalized cancer when he was 18. For some odd reason he was cured , but was to never have children ..........Today he has three girls and health as an Ox......He doesn't believe in anything , so I seriously doubted he prayed.
My ex in her previous relationship suffered from something like that. Her hands hurt durning winter months and when it was damp . She was sure she had arthritis. When the situation changed all that went away, never suffered from that again.
I had a friend , he was diagnosed with generalized cancer when he was 18. For some odd reason he was cured , but was to never have children ..........Today he has three girls and health as an Ox......He doesn't believe in anything , so I seriously doubted he prayed.
I was told I would lose sight in my left eye, DaS can attest to the scare on my head, where the plate is. I was told I would never walk normally again. I was told I would need a new hip and knee before I was 30.
I'm 40. Yet I see quite well, I walk just fine, and other then the kevlar knee cap (Only because they never found my knee cap), I have all my original parts. Along with 25lbs of platic and metal parts, hold it all together.
Survival is a belief, healing or not letting something make you weaker is will, and prayer or God, can have as much or as little to do with it.
Be it religious or otherwise, will comes from faith in something, and it is simply just the same thing.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
This is why I find the belief in God or religion really doesn't make you stronger. I see it as by passing man's true potential by giving it up to something that can not be seen or touched. No it is the will of man , that is where the true power lies, lays ,whatever .
Man fears himself ,
I agree.
That is our belief.
It can manifest in any number of manners.
You can believe in yourself to a degree that you are able to tap into untold powers. Where another can believe in a God, and tap into untold powers.
I agree, which is the basis for my aversion to organized religion. Because people become indoctrinated to someone else's will. And not necessarily that of the word of whatever God they may pray to.
Because man is dangerous. Religion has aided man in controlling that ability to some extent.
Hence Christian societies, developing things like the Magna Carta, Common Law, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
That's a good side, that I personally feel, far outweighs the draw backs that will undoubtedly be presented to me in short order.
If one so chooses to be negative, look solely for the negative, one will readily and easily find it. Furthermore, it will be just as easy to find people that will follow that train of thought.
Take Gh for instance. As negative as he may appear, that really isn't a fair representation of who he is. He is a Christian, a Catholic at that, yet he is not a typical Catholic. Many of his views are in stark contrast to Catholic dogma. Here's a man that adheres to the ceremony, while being able to think outside the RC box. Don't confuse the frustration that manifests as anger, for what Gh really is. He has no need to indoctrinate, he feels no need to degrade any other faith, or dismiss anyone simply on the grounds of faith.
Compare that to myself, years ago when I attacked the RC church and all Christians without relent. I sought only to highlight the negative and ignored the benefits that Christianity h as actually brought forth. I hated all Christians, no matter the stripe. It was Gh, Jay and ITN that showed me the better side of Christianity. Made me rethink my position. None of them looked down on me, because I wasn't Christian. In fact, ITN and Jay tried terribly hard to ignore that part of me, to maintain a friendship. While I did everything in my power to denigrate their faith.
Go figure.
This is where my issue lies...
I believe in the Great Spirit, I believe if I live my life as a Warrior, I will go to the Great Hunting Grounds when I die. Further to that, I believe that there is no better way to die, then in combat or in the saving of another life. I believe that the Great Spirit put on earth, many things for me to heal, live and survive with.
That is my belief.
If you do not believe that, I do not think you silly, stupid or blasphemous.
And here's the kicker. Gh, Jay, ITN and a million others like them, don't think I am silly or going to hell for my faith.
The power you and I are discussing, is not exclusive to anyone group, nor is it even accepted fully by science. Yet you and I seem to think it exists, with almost certainty. Does that make us silly? Stupid? Indoctrinated?
Of course not. It means from our experiences, we have developed an opinion that differs from someone elses.
The atheists on this board, are no better then the Christian fundamentalists they claim to dislike. They don't like dogma, but they sure do adhere to it. While being as ignorant and intolerant as the West Baptist Asshats.
Prayer or placebo, in the end aren't they just labels that essentially describe the same thing? Our personal experiences inform our perspectives and our personal perspectives also inform our experiences.
Once a sugar pill is revealed to be a sugar pill, it loses its potency. It is reduced to what it truly is, a trick. Prior to that point what a placebo represents is simply faith. Faith in medical science at a time of personal crisis, which provides some with comfort and calm. Does prayer not provide the same thing at such times?
Once a sugar pill is revealed to be a sugar pill, it loses its potency. It is reduced to what it truly is, a trick. Prior to that point what a placebo represents is simply faith. Faith in medical science at a time of personal crisis, which provides some with comfort and calm. Does prayer not provide the same thing at such times?
I don't know that it's daft, I think it may be a part of our nature. We have an inherient need to understand and rationalize our world. I think the danger comes from "finding the answer" which prevents us from asking further questions.
I think daft is appropriate. Because as we see here at CC, far to many ideologues look solely for the answers that support their ideologies, then stop. Anything outside those parameters, is heresy. Be it political, ethical, moral or theological. Those that filter their data through or have their experiences shaped by their perception of reality, or in otherwords, see what they want to see, have mental health or serious cognitive issues.
The only thing that should "inform" or shape our experiences, is the experience and any evidence that comes with it.
"SOME" people Bear, "SOME".
IMNSHO, God has manifested himself in many different ways, to many different peoples over the milenia. Hense the different "religions" with the same base tenents. It's not God screwing things up, it's man screwing up the message. IMO Bear, your Great Spirit is also my God. The God of Abraham. The God of pretty much every religious Faith out there, past and present.
IMO, contrary to what alley, MHZ, and Herald post, he will not turn away from those that have not `believed`in him. The ultimate test will be how you lived your life, not whether you were a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, or an atheist.
and I'm sure you recognize that you are a better person for it. Just like I recognize how you and RCS "opened my eyes" to a few things.
and do you know why? for me it's because of what I have already said. We believe in the same God, just slightly different interpretations of the message. It would be pretty damn ignorant and arrogant for me to think otherwise. Wouldn't it.
Amen brother, but they will not see it that way, they never do. Just like Alley, and MHZ, and Herald do not see how intolerant they are, and intolerance was the exact opposite of what one of Christ's base messages was.
I think we all have biases that we filter data through and I'm not sure that it's completely possible to eliminate that entirely. So all of our interpretations of current and future experiences will, to some degree, be informed by past experiences. I think the awareness of this is what gives us the ability to grow, to change, and to accept another's point of view.
Evidence,or facts, still need to be interpreted and we do so by using past experience as a guide. By interpretation I mean to draw conclusions because facts or evidence in and of themselves do not do anything for us.
I will completely agree that many people, on this forum and elsewhere, do have a tendency to only see what they want to see. What that really represents is an example of extreme bias which can, on some occassions, be broken through.
You are correct sir, my bad.
I agree. Although I don't necessarily interpret "The Great Spirit" in quite the same way as most people interpret God.
Again, I agree. Jesus' message was quite clear.
Yes I am, and thanx.
Yep.
Agreed.
Of course it isn't. My bias is, it must be supported by fact. If it quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it isn't a frog. Far to many forgo any sort of critical or clinical thought, to come to forgone conclusions.
For some of us anyways. I say that with all certainty, after watching far to many members here ignore absolute fact.
When a judgement is needed. But if I hold up a bean bag gun, and you call it a grenade launcher, the fact of the matter, is you're wrong.
How true. Now if only we could break through some more heads. I suggest a "bunker buster". In some cases, nothing less will do the trick.
In the Quran: Abraham praised God and said: it is God That actually feeds me and gives me water to drink and if I become ill, it is God That cures me...etc."
This is in the Quran 26: 75-82
([Abraham] said: "Have you considered the [stone idols] which you worship!?"
quran-ayat.co
This is in the Quran 26: 75-82
قَالَ أَفَرَأَيْتُم مَّا كُنتُمْ تَعْبُدُونَ
أَنتُمْ وَآبَاؤُكُمُ الْأَقْدَمُونَ
فَإِنَّهُمْ عَدُوٌّ لِّي إِلَّا رَبَّ الْعَالَمِينَ
الَّذِي خَلَقَنِي فَهُوَ يَهْدِينِ
وَالَّذِي هُوَ يُطْعِمُنِي وَيَسْقِينِ
وَإِذَا مَرِضْتُ فَهُوَ يَشْفِينِ
وَالَّذِي يُمِيتُنِي ثُمَّ يُحْيِينِ
وَالَّذِي أَطْمَعُ أَن يَغْفِرَ لِي خَطِيئَتِي يَوْمَ الدِّينِ
The explanation:([Abraham] said: "Have you considered the [stone idols] which you worship!?"
"You and your ancient fathers."
"Surely they are enemies to me, except [anyone who served] the Lord of the worlds."
"Who created me, and it is He Who guides me."
"And it is He Who gives me food and drink."
"And when I am sick, He heals me."
"And Who causes me to die [when I sleep at night], then gives me life [again at day time.]"
"And Who, I ardently hope, will forgive me my sin on the Day of Judgment.")
"Surely they are enemies to me, except [anyone who served] the Lord of the worlds."
"Who created me, and it is He Who guides me."
"And it is He Who gives me food and drink."
"And when I am sick, He heals me."
"And Who causes me to die [when I sleep at night], then gives me life [again at day time.]"
"And Who, I ardently hope, will forgive me my sin on the Day of Judgment.")
quran-ayat.co
You are right eanassir, but I doubt you realize how, and I will lay odds that many "non-believers" will not understand either.
God cures the patient
gerryh, I understand it this way:
God is Almighty: He can do anything, and nothing may be difficult to Him.
>> So if He wants to cure a diseased man, God will ease his way to a clever doctor and to the correct medical drugs which will cause his cure.
Or God may let this man pass into some circumstances which will lead to his cure without any medication: like e.g. this man will go to another country with different atmosphere and different allergens or humidity ..etc; or God may make the defense mechanisms of the body more powerful against his particular disease.
And God can cure that patient by any means.
This is on condition the man will not resort to the idols or the patron saints and imams --> because in such case, God may not cure him and his prayers to his patrons and idols will be useless.
>> On the other hand: the man who will keep ill: either the doctor has not known the correct diagnosis or has not given him the correct treatment or many complications will occur that will worsen his illness; or the patient may pass some surgery to be worse than before; e.g. I saw a man crippled on the wheeled chair: he told me: I only complained of severe backache, but after some surgery had been done to me, I have come out of the surgical room crippled on this wheeled chair
So, gerryh, if you explain to me another way of God's curing the diseased man, I should thank you
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A nice public tale
This public tale is not authenticated, but it is nice and may explain some aspect of this subject.
A man who was inspired by God to cure the patients; whenever a patient came to him, the correct drug included in some bottles, would start to shake, and he knew then it was the correct medication.
So they brought him a patient in very bad condition; and the bottle started to shake: a bottle including the poison of a snake.
The doctor was afraid to give that man in that bad condition: to give him the snake poison. So he gave him another drug and the patient kept suffering from his illness.
They were Bedwin Arab in the desert; and some enemy and robbers might attack them every now and then.
The brother of the patient was near him in the tent, and a snake came inside the tent, and the brother watched: the snake went to a dish including milk, and started to take some of the milk in her mouth then to spit it again in the dish: it mixed the milk with its poisonous saliva. Then the snake went out of the tent, and the brother astonished and wanted to tell his family to beware of the poisoned milk in that dish.
But suddenly, all of them were alarmed: the enemy attacked them, and the brother went to defend and forgot about the poisoned milk.
Then when he returned, he rushed and said: don't give my brother the milk to drink; because it is poisoned by the snake; but to his surprise, he found his body healthy and was cured of his dease, after he drank of that poisoned milk.
This is not authenticated story; it is only a public folklore story.
But I saw some patients cured in spite of the doctors
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