Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica.

[poligeek]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

Sideline 2:
The difference between Canada and France: the good samaritan law

Canadian Jamaicans start OBEYING THE LAW and providing information to police about MURDER WHICH THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING AS DULY PROTECTED CITIZENS 10 FREAKING YEARS

In 1991 there was a lot of attention paid to Frances good samaritan law after the crash of Princess Diana. In France the poparatizi that were assigned partial blame for the crash could be further charged for taking photo's of the Princess before offering her aid. This is because France has laws that say that not only if you witness a crime are you obligated to testify, you are obligated to help any victims that you can without bringing harm to yourself.

We don't have those laws in Canada.

Should we? Maybe.

The difficulty would still remain in deciding where is the line when you are obligated to help and when you are endangering your own life if you do help.

Generally the communities don't talk for two reasons:

1) They don't feel safe. Even if there are anonomous tip lines, most witnesses are sure that if they turn criminals in the tip will be traced back to them and they will be killed.

This does have logic to it.... if two people witness a shooting, and the shooter is turned in, chances are it was one of those two people. Doesn't matter if the tip is anonmous.

2) The adversarial nature of police and the need for more "beat-cops".

Every single night this week the Toronto news has featured leaders of the black community asking for more police, specifically more black police that will actually be partolling the streets.

Toronto has a significant lack of police, the police that were cut were the community officers, the ones that went around to schools, got to know the kids, that people knew their names and felt secure with them.

Having community officers builds trust between police and the community and will make people trust police when a crime does happen.

Also having officers on the streets is in itself a deterrant for crime.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

There were three incidents this year in Toronto where they had a huge police presense and crime and murder was still committed. So more police is not always the answer.

 

[bryantt]

Re: RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Ja

*****************8
Source?
********************

Look it up. Ive posted it about 3 times on this thread.


***********************8
25? I wish. But thank you anyway!
***********************

You are most welcome. Does that mean your older? hmm.



*********************************
I don't know of many countries that don't have crime laws. Ergo, insinuating it's only immigrants (from countries with crime laws) that are the problem is nonsensical.
**********************************

Where did I suggest it was only immigrants, genuis? Please show me?

*****************************
I suggest to you that an immigrant who arrives in this country and proceeds to break the law has never enjoyed good parenting - something which can occur outside of our borders
***************************************


I am quite well aware of the derogatory effects poor parenting can have. BUt im also well aware that people can change and move beyond the years of hurt and suffering they endured.


This is called healing. And something capable inside almost every single one of us. Except for the genetic freaks.

Anyhow. You beleive whatever you want friend.

 

[poligeek]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

Sideline 3:

Yes, the Black community is pathetic. Not to say our white leaders aren't. But the black community is in a DIRE situation and its leaders and community are content to sit on their hands.

This has been going on for the past 10 years.

I'm guessing you don't live in Toronto? Or if you do you live in Thornhill or Yorkdale.

The black community leaders have been speaking out about this violence for a long time. If you're old enough to remember the violence in Toronto was much worse in 1991.

However just because black community leaders speak out against this violence does not mean it gets as widespread media coverage as the actual shootings.

Let's face it black leaders speaking about bettering black communities rarely makes front page news, in fact a black shooting a black rarely makes front page news.

Where do you propose to offer black leaders a medium of communication that is as effective as the pop-culture glorifying violence?

How do we get Kanye West more CD sales than Fifty Cent?

 

[Citizen]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

Oh, Im clearly reading your posts. But its obvious you didnt have as much to say as I thought you did.

Says he who posts racism!

gain. Damage can be undone incurred from the formative years. Its called neuronal plasticity and its the biological basis for which a fully formed, adult human brain can 'change' its network, neural connections, adn therefore feelings and thoughts = from old to new. I am living proof of it, and I know many many others.

Your paradigm is wrong.

You are proof of nothing other than being racist. You post no sources to support your assertions either.

I got my undergrade in it, jackass. I know all about child psychology, abnormal psychology, social, cognitive development etc etc.

That's b.s. and never assume I'll believe whatever crap you post.

Theres something called 'choice' you're convienently forgetting.

I've never denied the existence of choice. My argument is that thugs haven't received proper parenting, if any, in their formative years. They are amoral, have no respect for anyone else, think only of themselves, think the world owes them a living etc. etc.

Yes, but my family got here waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before your family and thats all that matters.

Now how would you know something like that? Do you always talk out your ass or just when you're posting on a message board?

So you are an immigrant. Wow. What a surprise. Not a surprise at all. Wanna know how i could tell? mAybe you can answer that yourself?

There you go again talking out of your ass. I didn't say I'm an immigrant to Canada.

As i have said for the third time now (you are not reading my posts) , if the asians gangs are doing the same type of shit the jamaican ones are, see ya later. Kick their asses out.

I agree 100%. So that problem is solved.

Now what of the criminals who were born in this country?

What do you think this is, some kind of socialist lovefest where we give carte blanche to any gang or ethnic group thats engaged in violent gang activity?

Do you even know what you're talking about??

 

[bryantt]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

***********
Your not as hard a jackass as I thought you were. Your posts make sense, even though it does seem radical from a point of view.
****************
hehe. I am not. I am one of the nicest people you will ever meet. Honestly.

When you realize the most LIBERAL of all policy decisions are often times - on the surface - the most conservative and pragmatic, youll begin to see a new world of political thought open up. Liberalism is all about being in the moment, making sure to please the sensitive people all the time and not hurt anyones feelings.

There are political schools of thought that delay masses their instant gratification in the present while reaping massive rewards in the future. actually, you'll find as you research libertarianism that liberalism actually confines man to a set few predetermined conclusions and never really lets man, en masse, fly to the true heights he can.


If you like politics and crave righteousness. Study the American Constitution, the bill of rights, the ideological underpinnings of its construction and the framers personal philosophy. It is far far far better than what we have now. And being the bright man you are, i imagine you would be able to find it quite quickly.

Note though. What american is today and what america was, at its inception, are two very different states. America, is going down the tubes quick and the only thing saving it will be its peoples faint and distant memory of a sacred constitutional text and precepts they didnt bother to learn. Seriously.

****************************
However, I don't think we need to go the radical step of blocking immigration from a country.
***************************

This would actually work to our benefit. The jamaicans and chinese and whomever else would go along. Trust me, they have it great here. They've never had it better.

*****************************
Listen to the children, the youth councils who want the violence to end. Listen to them and maybe the crime will end if some of their ideas are taken and not blown off by some corrupt politicians*********************************

Children and youth councils usually parrot what they've been told to say - 'education is the answer!' , 'government programs' 'more 'opportunity' (read more government welfare).

The anglo saxon alliance can only do so much for the blacks. The black problem is a cultural edenmic. They are destroying themselves from the inside out largely because they simply cant bring themselves to collectivily accept - displine, education, personal accountability and responsibility - because they see that as being representative of definitive psyche of the anglosaxons (there previous masters).

Its true. But its the formula for success the world has learnt all over. Its not just the anglosaxon 'masters' that know it, its the japanese, chinese, the indians (up and comers), the british, french, germans, italians, romans, egyptians, greeks.

This is the pathway to success no matter what race or creed or color we hail frm. But blacks are continually rejecting and stewing over the collective adoption of this paradigm because at a root level they know its their salavation . But cant' bear the thought of submitting to, as what they erroneously see, as their ex slave masters teachings.

Its submission to the ultimate authority they'd love to give the finger too. We are watching a prodigol son/father relationship unfold in the macrocosm. Anglosaxon white america is the proverbial father. Blacks are the son. This really isnt the true or rational paradigm, but this is how the blacks see it, which is why they are having such a hardtime 'getting with the program'.

 

[poligeek]

Re: RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Ja

Sideline 4:
The dangers of misreading history

How about the better policing of neighborhoods using the threat of stemming imigration. Its not such a bad deal. Honestly, how are cops supposed to 'better police'.

Everyone is all for it. But how do we actually implement that *with results* as a society.

First, we need to examine the problem. And a big problem - within the black community - is a culture of mistrust, and totally above and beyond that, an overarching ethnic identity that pits 'blacks' against 'the establishment' (see American slavery for more details). Any willfull cooperation is viewed as hersey to their former slave masters. Its a matter of pride. Honestly.

Perhaps more black officers taking care of black crime? Possibly.

How do we "better police" communities?

More community, on the ground beat officers.

Black Canada is not the same culture as Black America... Black Jamaica is not the same culture as Black South Africa, or Black Ivory Coast, or Black Ethiopia or Eritria.

You will find an "anti-establishment" in America due to the long history of slavery.

But there is a long history of Canada helping Blacks to escape slavery from the States to Canada, so there is a large black community in Canada that is not anti-establishment... oh, and BTW are 6th, 7th and 8th generation Canadians.

We can hardly be surprised if many blacks from Jamaica, South Africa or Ivory Coast are suspicious of police, the police in those countries are largely a white minority that is completely corrupt and dangerous.

It's important to stress that in Canada there is hardly a "black" community, there is a Jamaican community an even an island community, but not a solid "black" community.

 

[poligeek]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

There were three incidents this year in Toronto where they had a huge police presense and crime and murder was still committed. So more police is not always the answer.

True, it's not simply a matter of the numbers of police at a given time. It is the type of police an consistent policing.

Let's talk Parkdale and Melvurn. Both very violent areas in 1991. Both have since received community policing, meaning that if you are in the areas you can see bike cops, street cops (and in Parkdale mounted police) on a regular daily basis. These are the same police each day. People who live in the communities are begining to get to know these officers, and are begining to trust them.

Crime in these two areas is dropping.

It's also because some community recommendations were followed up on. We'll get into those in later posts I'm sure.

 

[bryantt]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

*********************************
I think there is no longer any sense in even hoping that this argument was launched from any place other than a deeply entrenched racism that is as firmly ingrained in Bryantts soul as any retorich can be.
**********************************

And you have a deeply entrenched, extremist leftist bias which champions 'social responsibility' at the expense of personal accountability.

While accusing Canadas 'lack of opportunity' turns innocents into murderers,
you fail to recognize Canada FREELY OFFERS MORE OPPORTUNITY than any
immigrant ever needs to become successful.

Free healthcare.

Free education (to 12)

Free ESL

Welfare

Free housing

Government backed loans for higher education.

Subsidised counseling/psychological services


Those are the FACTS, dumbass.

Why is it the small, criminal Jamaican element can't use the same free resources
for their own success, that other immigrants can?

The missing puzzle piece, dumbass? PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY.


Most of your other stuff is just racist slander. Racist here, racist there.



*********************************************
Anyone who is honesly putting forward that Canadian nationality is based on being a direct decendent of:

white, anglosaxon, protestant Christians
************************************************

This, as usual, is more of your bullshit.

I included two definitions of a 'true Canadian', in my diatribe.

Here is the second:

"But if you ask most 4th, 5th, 6th generation Canadians, a true Canadian is one that embraces the culture, pledges sole alligence to this nation and honors its laws and ideals. That is a Canadian."

That is inclusive for both immigrants and multigenerational Canadians, dumbass.




**********************************
has not taken an honest look at Canada since 1971, or for that matter the fact that Canada is founded on a principle of conquering a native culture, or the significant contributions of the black and chinese communities to building this country.
**********************************

So what? I made the assertion Canada was - and still is - composed predominately of whites.

Dumbass pipes up and says some small minority groups were around even at confederation.

Dumbass, this changes nothing. Dont you get it??



***********************************************

immigrants in every *legal* sense, are citizens. But the countrys base - its roots, its heritage - is deeply white, deeply Christian and deeply devout to the ideals that made this country great.

Is a deeply racist statement, and deserves to be called out. Racism needs to be tackled every bit as aggressively in Canada as gun violence. And racism, does play a large part in gun violence.
************************************************

oooooooohhhh.... Are you going to call the thought police on me, dumbass??? Do you even know what im talking about, dumbass?

You missed the entire meaning of that post. Which isnt surprising.

Whites built the country. Whites have run the country. And whites will likely never give up control of the country. This *prediction* is based historical fact - not racist setiment - you dumbass. You clearly have no idea how a countries 'establishment class' works.

The point is that multigenerational Canadians are infuriorated by immigrants who come here, shoot up the fucking block, and collect child support. They dont like it. It goes against every princible Canada was founded on. And guess what, dumbass?? We have a RIGHT not to like it. Whether you like it or not.

That is not to suggest, you liberal dumbass, that these same whites are racist!! NO YOU DUMBASS!! They just dont like seeing some little shit disturbers from around the block come to the daddys fine fine house, and start smashing things up.

Is this at your level now, dumbass??

They are not racist against the people. They just HATE these people won't obey the house rules. And not only that, destroy the very prescious property they have inherited from their forefathers, who built the house.

You see, dumbass??? We love the sinner, but not the sin.


***********************************
If for instance the vast majority of those committing the gun crimes are recently landed immigrants from Jamaica who have not applied for citizenship, what we have is an immigration problem.
***********************************

Agreed.


*****************************
If however, the majority of gun crime happening in Toronto is by Canadians of Jamaican decent, then what we have is a Canadian social problem.
****************************

Dumbass, we dont like to take chances with people who are going to shoot up our daddys house, got it?

We don't care if its endemic, anemic, socioeconomic, polemic, chickenpocks, brusselfarts, shit ferris wheels. We dont care, dumbass.

We look after our own - that have a right to be in our daddys house - and warmly invite those we know who will apprieciate our house. Then we stop the rest from coming.

Y? Because we know in their house, most of those little rugrats kill and hurt each other. They dont play like us, dumbass.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out dumbass, that this same Jamaican 'gun culture' is going to hitch a ride with all the little ones that come to our house.

We even have the babysiters records that note over 80% of all damage caused in our fathers house, is caused by these little rugrats.

hmm.....What did you think dumbass? They would shoot each other all day long at their house, then come to stay with us and just magically cut out their bad habits?

You truly are a dumbass, dumbass.

But thats ok. You are part of the family.



*************************************
Now I'm sure that at the very mention of the words "social problem" Bryantt will choose to opt for a tyrade of slurs about bleeding-heart-liberals, rather than address it.
***************************************

Whats a 'social problem'? The gun violence in Canada? In Jamaica? Their poverty? Their hopeless shitty godforsaken lives in the fathers house?

Dumbass likes to keep track of so many different types of 'socail problems', its hard to know which social problem dumbass is talking about.


**********************************************
Individual Responsiblity, Community Responsibility and Root Causes
Nothing should ever excuse taking another person's life.
Those who choose to commit a crime should be punished.
**********************************************

Wow! What a great sentiment. Does dumbass actually beleive in personal responsibility AND community responsibility? Or does he just pay it lip service so he can blab on all day long about 'Root Causes' aka Social Responsibility?

hmmm....



***************************
I don't think anyone on this board is advocating that those who committed the recent gun crimes in Toronto should receive anything less than than the full penalty that the law allows.
*****************************

You're a hardliner, dumbass!! Slowdown!!!


*****************************
The question now, is how to stop further gun crime.
*****************************
Simple dumbass. You either do it the hard way, or the easy way.

The hardway is what you think is best. Complete massive, incrediably costly sociological and psychological studies on what really makes your dumbass, cold blooded Jamaican killer 'tick'. Get to know your sociopath. Learn all about him! Take years and years and billions and billions of taxpayer money to find the 'humanitarian' solution that will solve the sociopaths problems for him!

At the end, present the data to a Committee, have a new Government Department set up just so we can monitor, track, trace and implement all these incrediably costly and elaborate protocols!! 'After all, its for the children!!' dumbass cries aloud!!!

Indeed, for the children. After all is said and done, we recieved marginal benefit for a horrendus cost. "But it was worth it!", dumbass steadfastly proclaims - not having a fucking clue what a real dollar is worth or the gross excesses of tax payers funds wasted (and human life)...


The easy way? Light a fire under all their ass! Watch the MARKET solve the problem for us! Quickly!! Efficiently!! While encouraging those pesky rugruts to OBEY THOSE HOUSE RULES THEY SHOULD HAVE OBEYED A LONG TIME AGO.

Once the fire is lit, guess what happens? The little rugrats actually FOLLOW THE RULES, the lawbreakers are turned in and damage to our beloved house drops!



*************************************
Banning Jamaican's from a logical point of view makes no sense.
************************************

You still don't get it, dumbass. Nobody is banned unless the Jamaican community continues to PERVERT THE
LAW which lets murderers go free.

Get it, dumbass?

***************************
After all, in Vancouver it is not a Jamaican problem, in Edmonton it is not a Jamaican problem, in Montreal it is not a Jamaican problem.
*************************



Guess what? Thats not our problem. You bleeding heart liberal dumbass.




**********************************
From a racist point of view it almost makes sense:
**************************************

It would. To a liberal extremist like yourself.



************************************
In Toronto it can currently be blamed on the Jamaicans... so let's ban them,
************************************
Oh dumbass, you still dont get it! Its not banning, dumbass!!

Its putting all the little rug rats into a position where its in the houses BEST INTEREST and the rugrats BEST INTEREST to OBEY THE HOUSE RULES.

Everyone wins, dumbass! But your too concerned with what Canada hasn't done for them, than what they have.

And we have freely offered far more than what immigrants need to succeed, dumbass.




***********************************
in Vancouver it's the Chinese... so let's ban them,
**********************************

NO, YOU DUMBASS!! Only if the Chinese community is willfully subverting the
law and harboring murderers!!




*********************************
in Edmonton it's the natives...
***********************************

No. The natives were here before the whites, dumbass. They have seniority. No banning cowboy!


********************************
so let's lock them on the reserves,
**********************************

That already happened, dumbass?! Where we you to save the day?


*****************************
in Montreal it was the biker gangs...
*********************************

They are legal residents of the house. We cannot revoke their right to be here.

But we can stop those who dont have a right to be here, from coming! Dumbass!


*****************************
okay so this is where the argument should really be falling apart.
*****************************

This is where your argument falls apart.

Only those groups that:

1) cause a VAST majority of violent crime in Canada

AND

2) whose compliementary ethnic communities fail to OBEY THE
LAW AND TURN IN KILLERS/DRUG DEALERS/MOBSTERS


We dont go on some dumbass nazi witchhunt, dumbass.

People can actually be pragmatic in their conservatism dumbass. We are not all bleeding heart liberals like you.



***************************************
Gangs and violence exist when there is a social-economic and political climate that lets them exist.
***************************************

Good Lord, dumbass. Dont you ever shut up!!

Thats a nice theory. Thats why I advocated free counseling, psychological, osap, daycare and gov assistence to those who needed it most! I guess you missed that on my first post, huh dumbass? First page dumbass! Scroll!

Do you see what Im advocating dumbass? Is it coming into focus for you? Its called the carrot AND the stick approach.

You are all carrot dumbass.

Where your bleeding heart paradigm falls down, dumbass, is sometimes those we choose to help will
ABUSE THE SYSTEM despite how many carrots we give them.

And if you ask many, many immigrants, all the carrots are already there to let ANYONE succeed who
takes it upon themselves to do so.





**********************************
Removing one set of gangs from one area will not stop the violence.
***********************************

But dumbass, we don't make a bad situation worse by opening the doors to vistors who we know to be very destructive in their own house, in the hopes of making us feel better about our bleeding heart conscious.

We are stern, but fair with them. Sometimes dumbass, you need to let people make their own choices.


********************************
Individual responsiblity begins when one person makes a choice to act in violence. Social responsiblity lies where a society can identify trends that act as incentives for individuals to choose to act violently. Those trends are the root causes.

********************************

Dumbass, you are talking in 'root cause' and 'social responsibility' vagaries as usual.

My carrot is on the first page. You don't even know what your carrot is. Get a grip dumbass.

 

[Texas1]

RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

bryantt for PM

 

[bryantt]

Re: RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Ja

****************************
Andem
You're all being racist! You're singling out Jamaicans
****************************

No. The Toronto Police are singling out Jamaicans for gun crime, dumbass.

 

[bryantt]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

************************
"None is too many" huh, Bryantt??
***********************

Perhaps should you read my post again, because clearly that is not what I endorse.


***************************
Seriously, dude, I believe Canadians do too much pandering to niche groups in order to be as non-racist is possible, but c'mon, barring an entire ethnic group is just a little wacko.
**************************

Not if a major ethnic group is breaking federal law by willfully concealing the identities of known murderers from police.

There is nothing reasonable about paying lip service to the rule of law while remaining complacent towards KNOWN ethnic groups who activily engage in the perversion of it. In the interests of murderers, no less.

It is you who are promoting the 'whacko' ideaology of complacency, friend.


***********************
The criminals should be held accountable to the full extent of the law ( including deportation) and should not be apologized for, no.
***********************

Thats hollow retherioc unless you support a viable strategy that can actually catch these murderers. Which is what?

How do you suggest we compel the broader black and Jamaican communities to perform their lawful civic duty - a duty they have ignored for over 10 years - and turn over crucial information about known killers to police?

********************************
I'll enthusiastically flail criminals, Bryantt, but the young need a little of the shepherds crook.
**********************************

They already do, dumbass:

Free education.

Free healthcare.

Welfare.

Child support.

Subsidized housing

Government back loans for higher education.

Subsidized psychological and consueling services.


The vast majority of immigrants who arrive here with nothing are able to become 'success' stories. Why can't this small criminal element of Jamaicans do the same?

****************************
One thing I can suggest is to mount an offensive to deglamourize the ghetto-pimp lifestyle.
****************************

Yes. But whose going to do that? Whites? You think the blacks would listen to the whites about why ghetto culture is 'bad'?

Of course not. The only 'anti-ghetto' message the black community will listen to is one given from among their ranks.

Didn't you hear what happened to Bill Cosby at the NAACP meeting last year? He chastised the black community for promoting ghetto culture and ebonics, and got booed off the stage.


**********************************
When we allow the most visible and vocal role models to a generation to be primarily wannabe drug-dealers, pimps and gangbangers, we are pushing this generation down a path that will ultimately cause us to punish them.
*********************************

Allow? Its called freedom of speech, friend. You have to take the good with the bad.

And instead of promoting 'big government' to cure all the social diseases you shun, try promoting 'personal accountability' within the communities who actually have the power to do something about it.

 

[MMMike]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

The last bit. Some groups of people are more inclined to certain behaviors - deviant or postive - then others. Some peoples/races are just smarter/more clever than others. This is just how the world is. Im sure you could think of a few countries whose culturals or seemingly innate personality or intellectual traits you admired or envied. It also works in reverse.

That comment is very telling, bryantt. You are not only being naive, or ignorant, but when you suggest Toronto's problems can be solve by banning Jamaican's you cross the line.

Does personal (and community) responsibility play a large part in solving the problems of gun violence? Hell ya! But we (greater Toronto society) must play a larger role in presenting a better options for these disaffected youth. We need to show them that they are a part of a greater society that values them, and can afford them real opportunity. The difficulty is translating these high morals into action... and for that we need to look back to the community rather than big government.

 

[Citizen]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

Is Bryantt banned??

That comment is very telling, bryantt. You are not only being naive, or ignorant, but when you suggest Toronto's problems can be solve by banning Jamaican's you cross the line.

Does personal (and community) responsibility play a large part in solving the problems of gun violence? Hell ya! But we (greater Toronto society) must play a larger role in presenting a better options for these disaffected youth. We need to show them that they are a part of a greater society that values them, and can afford them real opportunity. The difficulty is translating these high morals into action... and for that we need to look back to the community rather than big government.

I don't understand this "disaffected youth" talk.

Every child in Canada is entitled to attend public school. Same goes for most other things that non-disaffected youth enjoy.

How is it that these thugs are categorized as "disaffected"??

 

[lena]

RE: Solving Torontos Gun

WOW....there is too many excuses nowadays eh. Lets blame everyone else but me. What happened????Its not me its the system.....hence the problem..NO??

 

[FiveParadox]

Excuses

Some would argue that those who commit crimes, such as those with handguns, are persons who "fall through the cracks" of our Government's care. Some would argue that they are persons who were abused, and who were shunned from society from the very start. Some would argue that crime is a sort of psychological disorder.

While any of those could be true, I would argue that crime is, simply put, a problem. It's the criminals' problem, it's our problem, and it's the problem of the Government of Canada. It needs to be remedied, and we must trust that those who represent us in the House of Commons are going to do that. We have seen steps taken in the past decade to increase sentences, to deter those who would commit crimes from doing so in the first place, and in general, to strike some sort of Judicial chord with the public.

However, more needs to be done — we need to expand our strategies, and come up with new strategies. We need to increase funding where more funding is due, and ensure that our Judiciary remains as impartial and as effective as ever.

The handgun ban can't hurt, though. It may not do any more than declare that gun crime is unacceptable, but it can't do any more damage than is otherwise done by gun crime itself.

 

[poligeek]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

I have to say that I find it to be a particularly good example of an oxymoron that Bryantt could identify that Canada has a reasonably good educational system, but at the same time thought it would add to his argument to use the word "dumbass" 57 times in one post.

The problem is that Bryantt is a perfect example of why it has been difficult and continues to be difficult to come up with any real solutions to urban violence (Toronto, or anywhere else).

There will always be people who will favour reductionist knee-jerk solutions without thinking through what the effects of such actions would be.

Real solutions are going to require different people in this society to work together, for politicians to see black youth as people and not lump them all togher as "thugs".... for youth to see police officers as people who want to perform a service for the community and not lump all police in with the few who are corrupt... for the suburbs to see city violence as a national problem and not something that is contained within geographical boundaries.

As long as we see people as the labels they wear then we will make assumptions about their viewpoints and not hear the valid points each viewpoint has to offer towards a real and lasting solution.

 

[poligeek]

Re: RE: Solving Torontos Gun

WOW....there is too many excuses nowadays eh. Lets blame everyone else but me. What happened????Its not me its the system.....hence the problem..NO??

I think it's really important to draw a line between what people are saying about how those who actually commit the crimes should be treated and what people are saying needs to be examined to prevent futher crime.

Once a person chooses violent action, that at worst results in the loss of life there must be punishment and hopefully rehabilitation. I don't think anyone is arguing that systemic dysfunction should be a criminal defence.

That being said the solution to gun violence cannot be to lock up everyone that commits a gun-crime. This is not to say that everyone who commits a gun-crime should not be locked up.

Paradox?

No.

Here is the difference: it has been shown ten times over that punitive solutions do not produce preventative results. Sure those who commit gun crimes may be locked up for longer, in worse conditions, may be executed... but these punitive solutions have not served to significantly prevent or lower gun crime rates in any area in which they have been used. In fact, in the United States where they do have harsher penalities thier gun crime rates exponentially outstrip ours.

So, while individual responsiblity must be divied out once a crime has been committed. It is social responsiblity that must tackle how to prevent crime and how to make crime less attractive.

Deterrance does not begin with punishment.

Indetifying root causes is a way to identify real deterrants to crime, by preventing the options that make crime viable.

 

[cortez]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

It's truly stupefying to see all the bleeding heart liberals here collectively decry *legal* gun ownership as the 'criminal epicenter' of Torontos gun violence and offer its antithesis - a total gun ban - as a effective, lasting solution.


2) Stop immigration of all Jamaicans tomorrow. Yes, I said it. Jamaicans!!

>

what solution would you propose to deal with psychopathic mass murderers - ie bernardo /picton etc---most of the murders of that type are "anglosaxons"

individuals are responsable for their actions NOT for the actions of others in their ethnic group

in the same way that you are not resposable for what picton for has done

and if you want to extend the blame for the toronto gun violence beyound the individual--then perhaps the entire toronto "commmunity" should be examined?

i think you expect too much from ordinary people--- they cannot police their own communities--- they have day jobs --- policing is what police officers are paid to do. i for example have no idea what crimes are being committed( if any ) in my local neighbourhood or " community" except what i read in the paper

 

[ashley_rb]

RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

"individuals are responsable for their actions NOT for the actions of others in their ethnic group ".

That would make a nice post card. Hey - why not send that off to Bush. He'd love it.

So for you, it wasn't a group of terrorists who killed thousands on 911, it was the people flying the planes? Or how about the war in Iraq - Its not the groups who are kidnapping people and cutting their heads off, its the one doing the kidnapping?

Toronto's doesn't have a gun problem, they have a terror problem. Gangs terrorizing other gangs and terrorizing the public, and its the public getting caught in the cross fire.

I say "the public" but its not really: its the young blonde white teenagers who make great coverage for the media, that's the public we see the most.

A skinny black teenager with baggy pants, dread locks, and bad teeth, shopping in downtown toronto would never get the same coverage as the young blonde female teen.

No flowers, no bank accounts to help the families. Nothing. All they get is people wondering, "I wonder if he stole the credit card to shop with".

..................

Its jamacans?

Yeah you said it, you opened up your heart to us all, and what we got to witness was racisim.

Name calling isn't allowed here so I won't call you a racist or imply it, your own mouth speaks for itself - "Its Jamaicans" - your words, mixed with a wee bit of ignorance, all served up with a white shiney smile.