Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica.

[sanch]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

I see no value in this thread.

This is the relevant section of the criminal code of Canada.

Section 319(1): Public Incitement of Hatred

The crime of "publicly inciting hatred" has four main elements. To contravene the Code, a person must:

communicate statements,
in a public place,
incite hatred against an identifiable group,
in such a way that there will likely be a breach of the peace.
Under section 319, "communicating" includes communicating by telephone, broadcasting or other audible or visible means; a "public place" is one to which the public has access by right or invitation, express or implied; and "statements" means words (spoken, written or recorded), gestures, and signs or other visible representations.

All the above elements must be proven for a court to find an accused guilty of either:

an indictable offence, for which the punishment is imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Section 319(2) defines the additional offence of communicating statements, other than in private conversation, that wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

At bryantt not you Ten Penny. Not you, you made a good point, along with Mmike.

 

[poligeek]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

This is a farily serious debate, and regardless of which side of the argument you are on the view point offered by Bryantt is not an uncommon view point, likewise the view points held by others are equally populist. I think we can all make our points, without debassing language. In fact the arguments typically sound a little more intelligent when words like "dumbass" and "stupid" are omitted.

Okay first, lets tackle this lable "Jamaican", does anyone have any actual sources or figures that show that it is "Jamaican's" not Canadians committing these crimes? Even if the people who are committing the crimes are of Jamaican decent if they are full citizens then they are Canadian.

There's a big difference between actual Jamaican citizens coming to Canada and committing violence on our streets and children born in Canada to parents who are of Jamaican origin and those children growing up in Canada to commit violence.

Next, lets separate problem from the proposed solution:

Problem: Gun Violence, predominently in the Jamaican-Canadian community at the current time.

Proposed Solution: Stop immigration of Jamaican's.

In Bryantt's response to TenPenny Bryantt can recognize that:

Jamaica has an incredibly popular - proportionately speaking - gang related and criminal culture. Does this mean all Jamaicans are criminals? or most? NO No NO.

So, if we can recognize that not all Jamaicans and in fact not most Jamaicans are criminals then we can assume that not all Jamaicans immigrating to Canada and in fact not most Jamaicans immigrating to Canada are criminals either.

So the key problem still remains in the Jamaican-Canadian community, but there is no real corelation between stopping Jamaican immigration and stopping the violence on Toronto's streets.

The real question is what would stop the violence on Toronto's streets.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

quote="Jersay"]You lying piece of crap. Go to the cops. It doesn't work because I know a security guard friend from Pickering who went to the cops to talk about a home invasion in Pickering. He went to the cops, and he was gunned down outside his parents home. He ran away from his house so his parents wouldn't be heard. And he died in his driveway.

So don't talk to me about your mindless thoughts that do nothing.

Sorry to hear about your friend. Indeed, a tragedy.

Regardless, there is such thing as an anonymous tip line that everyone is free to use. Clearly your friend didn't use it. Does this mean members of the Jamaican and Black community couldn't use it as well? No.

Besides, your rational on the subject is totally flawed. The assliants knew who your friend was. And thus, could find him and kill him after the fact. Most TO murders are cold blooded killings, in public, at clubs, on young street, in malls, with lots and lots of passer-by witnesses totally anonymous to the killers. Why aren't these people coming forward? Offering descriptions? Giving police enough information to develop a sketch, suspect age range, type make model car, etc. etc. Its endless.

Thirdly, even IF Jamaican killers are as cold blooded as the shit bags who killed your friend, and would willingly and premeditatively assinate witnesses they knew postivily identified them, then this just enforces these animals need to barred from being let into the country.

What do you suggest we do? Lay down and let the Jamaicans in by the boatload? knowing full well, some of them are going to account for all our citys murders, and extort and kill witnesses to their murderers and not do a damn thing about it?

Pure stupidity.[/quote]

Some of these people who come from Jamaica, and from other places already have criminal records in Jamaica or places that they are moving from. Unless you count children, but you can't tell with children because it hasn't been decided if they will be criminals or not.

Therefore, anyone with a criminal record, should not be allowed into Canada, even with a petty crime. Unless, they will be tortured in the nation that they come from.

I don't think in Jamaica they would be tortured am I wrong?

I will include more later.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

Yeah, we've had trouble with immigrants ever since we came to this country. Time to lock the doors, that'll fix it for sure. :roll:

 

[bryantt]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt bryantt and assume you have come here to discuss, not to troll. Why don't you start by showing a little respect... newbie.... or go rant somewhere else.

Why would I?

What bleeding heart Liberals don't understand is that for all their misguided efforts to help the less fortunate - although well intentioned - they're efforts usually serve to propagate criminality.

Toronto Gun crime is a perfect example. don't refuse a single Jamaican in the interests of 'progressive socialism' - despite Jamaicans being responsible for an astronomical amount city murders!

Bleeding heart liberalism that is killing our citizens.

While I won't dismiss a cultural connection off-hand, it is oversimplification to say the problems are Jamaicans.

Yes, you're right. Jamaicans aren't the problem. Its Jamaican criminal culture thats being exported to Canada in all its insidious ways thats the problem.

And guess who predominately practices Jamaican criminal culture??? You guessed it!! Jamaicans!! Wake up!!!

Where are your statistics to prove this?

Globe and Mail. Toronto Sun.

And how many of these "Jamaicans" actually grew up most of their lives right here in T.O.? Most of these kids are products of the society they live in.

If that we true, then every poorass white, indian, european and latino-Canadian, living in a broken family - and there are millions - would be strapped and murdering on the streets of Toronto.

But they arent. Its just a small, criminal Jamaican element committing murder.

Is there nothing else about the people committing these crimes that you notice.... er, like coming from poverty, or single family homes?

See above. Total liberal bullshit. Guess what friend? Blacks arent the only impoverished, underprivileged strata in society that hail from largely broken homes that AREN'T responsible for an OVERWHELMING DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT of murder!

At what point to you actually start assigning responsibility? Do you hold the gunmen accountable? No? The devil made them do it? Parents accountable? No? They got screwed by their own parents?

You epitomize the fatalist liberal ideology that excuses and shirks away human greatness by failing to embrace the accountability inside of each of us.

You have believed a lie. Now you are excusing grown men - men at an age you shouldn't even be questioning whether they have 'free will' (19-29) - who are killing our citizens and you shrug it off cooly citing 'their childhood' as the culprit. Lame. Stupid. And very, very dangerous.

Like growing up not really integrated into society and with very little education or employment prospects?

Please. Do you have any idea what country your in?? This is CANADA. Not some assbackwards african nation with half their population toiling sand and the economic mainstay is yams and goat dung.
.
Canada has more opportunities than any WILLING and ABLE immigrant needs to become a success if they so CHOOSE.

Free education up to 12. gratuitous welfare and oh so many social programs for the disabled, enfeebled, mentally challenged, or members of ETHNIC minority GROUPS. don't believe me? doesn't surprise me one bit.

OSAP. Government backed commercial loans to pay for higher education, all the way through.

The opportunity abounds. You are just too blind to see it.

Believe me, I'm no bleeding heart Liberal, but it doesn't take an Einstein to realize that there is a such thing as "root causes".

Believe me, you are. If you wern't, you'd be calling for accountability and attempting to take action. Not finding sorry reasons to excuse and grant clemency to some man who just blew a childs head off in public. You are totally blind.

But what about his parental upbringing????? awwww..... the poor guy (25). Yes, let them all stay and terrorize our town and our families, so we can retain the right to pat ourselves on the back for being good little socializts while these murderers continue to kill our countrymen.

Deaf. Blind. And stupid.

Not that that cancels out personal responsibility but if we want to make improvements for the longterm we need to give these young people some sense of hope and community.

Travel to a piss poor thirdworld country then come back here and tell me how 'little opportunity' Canada offers.

You lament the lack of Opportunity. Hope. Community. You are clearly a broken record for all the broken dreams and empty promises you mistakenly think Canada represents.

You couldnt be more wrong. THis is CANADA!!!!!!!. This is not Kazaghkstan. Or Abungdai. Or the Sudan. We are a GREAT FUCKING EIGHT economy. Do have a clue what that means?

It means we have mastered the social, legal, political and educational paradigms and their integration to generate an organic, dynamic wealth generating mechanism we each can contribute to, and according to our efforts, each take away from.

THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF OPPORTUNITY. FREE MARKET. MINIMAL GOVERNMENT REGULATION.

If you cant make it here, guess what, you wont be able to make it anywhere. This is cream of the croop. Open your eyes.


Just to give you a hint - most immigrants break their backs to get in here, then break their backs working here to make a life. They succeed - some incredibly - by the sweat and determination of their own brow combined with the multitude of opportunities this Government grants those to them who will USE IT.

Get real. You are talking childish defeatist nonsense to those who have actually come here and MADE SOMETHING of themselves despite incredible adversity.

That being said, of course changes have to be made to the justice system to deal with violent crime more seriously. You had one thing right - making illegal guns even more illegal doesn't do a thing to make this city safer.

Crime is taken seriously. Its the criminals who don't take justice seriously we need to be concerned with.

This falls squarely on the shoulders of the small group of criminal Jamaicans who are making our city a dangerous place.

We owe these people nothing. Let the self proclaimed law abiding Jamaican citizens assimilate, take their rightful place and perform their rightful civic duty. Or cut off immigration from Jamaica.

 

[TenPenny]

RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

I agree that the discussion on gun violence in Toronto could use some serious discussions, but the leading proponents of this thread are ignorant, insulting twits who have little grasp of reality.

If they understood what they are saying, they'd be ashamed of themselves.

But there you go. The internet is a wonderful place.

I agree with Dexter, those damn immigrants need to be shipped back to whereever they came from. All of them. Including the natives; didn't they come over from Asia?

 

[Jersay]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

So that is what you want, for them to assimilate.

And my foolish friend Bryannt if Canada is such a great country why do we have 1.2 million children under the poverty line. Why do we have native poverty, and in other ethnic communities.

Why do we have teen aboriginal suicide, and why do we have kids dropping out of school.

Because of the society around them not because of themselves but because of society so tough with your logic that is luckily in the minority.

 

[bryantt]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

{QUOTE] If you put actions that are against the community they wouldn't help you it is that simple.

[/b]

They aren't helping anyway. Get it?? If the Jamaican/Black community refuse to collectively accept not only the responsibility, but also the LEGAL DUTY that comes with the privileges of being a Canadian citizen, then why should we let them in to begin with??

Despite what the liberal boneheads believe, Canada is made GREAT by the enduring principles inherited from our founders - hardwork, thrift, decency, self improvement and commitment to family and community. If immigrants coming here have no desire to participate in a system that honors those virtues - and above that, willfully break the law to conceal the identity of a known murderer from police - they don't deserve to be here. Period.

If a crackdown on bleeding heart immigration distances the Black and Jamican community even more from performing their LAWFULL DUTY of relaying all relevant information to police, fine. We won't let anymore in.

Problem solved.

And, until all gangs are gone, if someone in one of these communities does help out the Police they are killed by the other gangs. The police don't protect these people, so either get killed for producing information, or just stay quiet.

[/b]

Total BS. Its called anonymous tips. Ever hear of it?

So the police should get off their lazy asses and either help these people who want to come forward or do some police work. Because I am sure a lot of Black people would want to come forward but there is no protection for them.

[/b]

Please. What a load of crap. The police interview scores of people at every shooting scene only to have those with critical information clam up. The Police Chief and acting detectives repeatedly say this, "No one in the black community will talk."

Granted, witnesses may fear relaying information at the crime scene where their identity and cooperation is visible.

The answer? Anonymous tips line. If the Black and Jamaican community are so eager to expose these murderers amongst their ranks, as you claim, the anonymous tip lines would be flooded with blacks falling over themselves to share any and all information in a venue where their identity is totally secure.

Why then, aren't there more arrests? Because blacks don't talk to police. They never have. Where have you been?

But you don't marginalize a community even more and then ask for them to help you. That is just plain stupid.

[/b]

No, whats stupid is accepting the status quo while realizing upwards of 80% of the perpetrators are Jamaican and not acting on it. Like I said, the Black and Jamaican community are sitting on their hands. So what does it matter?

You come to Canada. You play by the rules. If you don't. You're countrymen and family don't get in. That simple. I think you'd be surprised at how quick the Black and Jamaican community start dropping dimes when its the future of their own family stuck in buttf*ck nowhere instead of some murdering punk they owe little real allegiance too.[/quote]

 

[poligeek]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

It's too bad that we can't seem to have a real discussion on pratical plausible solutions to gun violence in Toronto. Trust me that is what most of us living here would really like some input on.

Bryantt,

What you seem to be missing is the fact that no one here has said that there doesn't need to be changes to the justice system, to the policinng, and treating of the gun-volice issue and those charged with gun crimes in Toronto and this country.

What people on here are taking issue with is the idea that stopping immigration from Jamaica will make any more difference than banning already illegal firearms.

You, yourself have recognized several times that simply because some Jamaican's are committing some horrible crimes does not mean that the majority of Jamaican's are complicent in these crimes or are criminals themselves.

We don't even know if the "Jamaican's" charged with these crimes are Canadians of Jamaican decent or landed immigrants.

And, the fact remains (so long as we can look to history) that if we simply tried to "remove" Jamaican's from the equation (which is very impraticle) without tackling the root causes for the violence another gang group will simply step up to take the place of the current gangs.

Sure, we're all emotional here but calling people names and bradishing the word "liberal" as though it were a four-letter insult, is not remotely constructive to solving the problem. And, if you are sitting anywhere near the intersection that I am then I would hope you can do away with the name-calling and work a bit more on solutions.

 

[bryantt]

RE: Solving Torontos Gun

poligeek.

Hey there. Before we continue - and I will address all the points you've made - can you tell me how to quote another post properly? So my quotes appear in a bold, bounded square as opposed to plain italics?

Thanks.

 

[Jay]

RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

Hit the quote button on the top of the post....it lays out the formats for you in there....use the radio buttons on the top of the post for adding bold lettering etc.

 

[poligeek]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

Make sure you are using the "Post Reply" function and not the "quick reply" box. You should see a series of buttons just above your dialoge box, click the one that says "quote" and then again once you are finished.

If you need to do it manually use square brackets and type "quote" and "/quote"

Hope that helps. [/quote]

 

[Jay]

RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

Also remember that the "preview" button is your friend.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

-H. L. Mencken

 

[bryantt]

Re: RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Ja

Sorry guys. Quoting isn't happening.

I will select 'quote' from another users post, highlight a small piece of text previously wrapped in 'quote' function, add bold by clicking on B, preview, and all it gives me is the text, with bounded by two plain text '/quote' functions, further bounded by the proper bold function, but in plain italics. None of it is working. Perhaps i am doijgn something wrong. I dont know.

Ill just move on to your replies now.

 

[poligeek]

RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

I don't think you can manually enter the "=Jay" inside the quote brackets and have it work.

 

[poligeek]

RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

usually the bold function also needs to be inside the brackets.

 

[poligeek]

Re: RE: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Ja

usually the bold function also needs to be inside the brackets.

If you want to get the quote above you also need to quote directly from the original post, meaning have two windows open... otherwise don't worry about the person's name....

I wonder how long it will take for a moderator to delete this stuff or clarify?

 

[Doryman]

Re: Solving Torontos Gun Crime: Cut Immigration From Jamica

We owe these people nothing. Let the self proclaimed law abiding Jamaican citizens assimilate, take their rightful place and perform their rightful civic duty. Or cut off immigration from Jamaica.[/quote]

"None is too many" huh, Bryantt?? Seriously, dude, I believe Canadians do too much pandering to niche groups in order to be as non-racist is possible, but c'mon, barring an entire ethnic group is just a little wacko.

The criminals should be held accountable to the full extent of the law ( including deportation) and should not be apologized for, no. But there should be at least some attempt to help better life in ghetto communities to ensure the next generation sees these crimes with the same distaste we do. I'll enthusiastically flail criminals, Bryantt, but the young need a little of the shepherds crook.

One thing I can suggest is to mount an offensive to deglamourize the ghetto-pimp lifestyle. When we allow the most visible and vocal role models to a generation to be primarily wannabe drug-dealers, pimps and gangbangers, we are pushing this generation down a path that will ultimately cause us to punish them.