Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
I think I have been very civil in this thread BitWhys and all you have tried to do is discredit me personally, without anything backing up your sneer remarks and comments.

I would assert the truth hurts to the degree you can't handle it.

I have provided you with links and a personal interpretation of those links, all you have provided is bollocks.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Countervailing duties only apply to crown harvested logs. Logs from private lands are exempt. So buyer in the US has his choice he can pay $100 for the private log or $120 for the crown log. Which will be chose? He won't pay $120 for the crown log, he will pay $100. He buys the log at $100. The company gets $80. The duty is deducted from the product and placed into escrow. It need only be itemized on the bill as duty. The duty is paid. Pre-paid. The comany is out $20. The $20 is sitting in escrow.

Clear enough?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

Kreskin said:
Countervailing duties only apply to crown harvested logs. Logs from private lands are exempt. So buyer in the US has his choice he can pay $100 for the private log or $120 for the crown log. Which will be chose? He won't pay $120 for the crown log, he will pay $100. He buys the log at $100. The company gets $80. The duty is deducted from the product and placed into escrow. It need only be itemized on the bill as duty. The duty is paid. Pre-paid. The comany is out $20. The $20 is sitting in escrow.

Clear enough?

No Kreskin it isn't clear enough because it doesn't work that way. Duties are not deducted from the product. Duties are assessed as a percentage on the overall sale price of the exporting country, payable by the importing company and deposited into an escrow account (only in this softwood lumber dispute, typically they are dispersed to the treasury department immediately from customs).

What you are suggesting is that an improting company buying a product from the EU doesn't pay a tariff, but rather the exporting company from the EU pays the Canadian government. If that's what you think goes on, you need to read up on your information, because you are incorrect.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
Re: RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

I think not said:
You also have a reading comprehension problem.

my comprehension is good enough to tell the difference between what's worth paying attention to and your spin.

here. try get your head around this...

[url=http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/import/add_cvd/can_soft_lum/clarification.xml said:
US Customs and Border Protection[/url]]A. SIMPLE CASES(cases that generally present no problems in the application of the scope)

1. Mill "A" manufactures lumber products in the condition as imported into the U.S. directly from logs. Mill "A" is also the exporter (shipper and importer of record). The duty rates and exemptions are applicable according to the status of mill "A".
2. The same scenario as #1, but the lumber products are exported by wholesaler "B" (shipper and importer of record). Again, the duty rates and exemptions are applicable according to the status of mill "A".
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

BitWhys said:
I think not said:
You also have a reading comprehension problem.

my comprehension is good enough to tell the difference between what's worth paying attention to and your spin.

here. try get your head around this...

[url=http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/import/add_cvd/can_soft_lum/clarification.xml said:
US Customs and Border Protection[/url]]A. SIMPLE CASES(cases that generally present no problems in the application of the scope)

1. Mill "A" manufactures lumber products in the condition as imported into the U.S. directly from logs. Mill "A" is also the exporter (shipper and importer of record). The duty rates and exemptions are applicable according to the status of mill "A".
2. The same scenario as #1, but the lumber products are exported by wholesaler "B" (shipper and importer of record). Again, the duty rates and exemptions are applicable according to the status of mill "A".

Get my head around what? Again, which part of shipper and importer didn't you understand? Mill "A" is a legal entity in Canada and the US. It has to be in order to conduct business the way it was described in your example.

I showed you the agreement that states the "importer of record" is entitled to the money. In your example, Mill "A" must be a legal entity in the US to be subject to import duties. The counterveiling duties imposed on softwood lumber was an import duty.

You might be a self-proclaimed wizard at economics but you can't get passed practical applications of customs transactions can you?

When was the last time a traveller entered Canada and the customs agent asked the traveller for the retailers information for merchandise he purchased abroad so they can bill them the import tax?

Kreskin: Canfor has facilities in Washington State, any chance they are there to be the "importer of record"?

Canfor Corporation is a leading Canadian integrated forest products company based in Vancouver, British Columbia. The Company has 33 extensive woodlands operations and manufacturing facilities in British Columbia, Alberta, Quebec, Washington State and its New South Division in North and South Carolina. Canfor is a major producer and supplier of SPF and SYP lumber, bleached kraft pulp, specialty kraft paper, plywood and oriented strand board (OSB) for markets around the world.
http://www.canfor.com/company/
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet

stuff and nonsense. Mill A is a Canadian company exporting Canadian lumber to the United States.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet

BitWhys said:
stuff and nonsense. Mill A is a Canadian company exporting Canadian lumber to the United States.

And they are also the importer, hence why they are imposed the CVD.

Really, if you cannot grasp the simple concept that Customs Authorities only have jurisdiction in the country in which they operate then........
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
I think not said:
The Canadians did not pay for the countervailing duties. Countervailing duties are paid by importing companies and the exporting company cannot reimburse the importing company. Stick to something you know about. CTV has it wrong.

as usual you come out of things full of shit.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
A foreign customs agency can impose a duty on anything that crosses their line. Whether its legal or not is very much a matter of trade agreements.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Re: RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

I think not said:
BitWhys said:
I think not said:
You also have a reading comprehension problem.

my comprehension is good enough to tell the difference between what's worth paying attention to and your spin.

here. try get your head around this...

[url=http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/import/add_cvd/can_soft_lum/clarification.xml said:
US Customs and Border Protection[/url]]A. SIMPLE CASES(cases that generally present no problems in the application of the scope)

1. Mill "A" manufactures lumber products in the condition as imported into the U.S. directly from logs. Mill "A" is also the exporter (shipper and importer of record). The duty rates and exemptions are applicable according to the status of mill "A".
2. The same scenario as #1, but the lumber products are exported by wholesaler "B" (shipper and importer of record). Again, the duty rates and exemptions are applicable according to the status of mill "A".

Get my head around what? Again, which part of shipper and importer didn't you understand? Mill "A" is a legal entity in Canada and the US. It has to be in order to conduct business the way it was described in your example.

I showed you the agreement that states the "importer of record" is entitled to the money. In your example, Mill "A" must be a legal entity in the US to be subject to import duties. The counterveiling duties imposed on softwood lumber was an import duty.

You might be a self-proclaimed wizard at economics but you can't get passed practical applications of customs transactions can you?

When was the last time a traveller entered Canada and the customs agent asked the traveller for the retailers information for merchandise he purchased abroad so they can bill them the import tax?

Kreskin: Canfor has facilities in Washington State, any chance they are there to be the "importer of record"?

Canfor Corporation is a leading Canadian integrated forest products company based in Vancouver, British Columbia. The Company has 33 extensive woodlands operations and manufacturing facilities in British Columbia, Alberta, Quebec, Washington State and its New South Division in North and South Carolina. Canfor is a major producer and supplier of SPF and SYP lumber, bleached kraft pulp, specialty kraft paper, plywood and oriented strand board (OSB) for markets around the world.
http://www.canfor.com/company/

Who knows. Nevertheless the company is paying the duty.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
Re: RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

I think not said:
You might be a self-proclaimed wizard at economics...

curious

when did I ever do that?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

BitWhys said:
A foreign customs agency can impose a duty on anything that crosses their line. Whether its legal or not is very much a matter of trade agreements.

A customs agency imposes a tariff on imports, not on exports. There is an importing company that must have a legal corprorate status in the country where the product is being imported.

Stop playing word games, you're not very good at it.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
Canadian companies have been forwarding cash or bond duty deposits for US Customs to place in escrow. plain and simple.

btw, expenses cannot be transferred between companies in the consolidation process.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

BitWhys said:
Canadian companies have been forwarding cash or bond duty deposits for US Customs to place in escrow. plain and simple.

btw, expenses cannot be transferred between companies in the consolidation process.

Canadian companies in the US. The importers of record.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

BitWhys said:
"Mill A" is located in the US?

BitWhys, Mill "A" is identified as being an exporter and importer in the US, obviously they have a legal corporate status in the US (aside from Canada). This is what a multinational corporation is, right?

Ever hear of Nissan America? Nissan Canada? Nissan Japan exports to the US and Canada and Nissan America and Canada imports their products.

What is the problem with this?
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
the problem is your sophistry assumes a company need be mutlinational to export lumber over the line.

Under the softwood agreement, the U.S. would give back 80 per cent of the tariffs that were imposed on Canadian lumber. That means import duties of $4 billion the U.S. charged Canadian companies since 2002 will be returned. But the U.S. keeps $1 billion.

get a grip.